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Early Side-Missions In Locked-Off Areas

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zmoonchild
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#61

Posted 18 August 2007 - 09:28 PM Edited by zmoonchild, 18 August 2007 - 09:30 PM.

QUOTE (OrionSR @ Aug 17 2007, 02:16)
I'm especially interested in your finding on the Mulholland garage, and fast food places. I've been looking for a method to unlocked the fast food places early with a hex editor, but I'm not having any luck. Perhaps your trick will help me track down the difference. Do this trick also add all the icons to the map? I'll have to play around with that garage a little. I think I can use that on my favorite saves. Thanks for the tips.

We've got the list of horseshoes that require aircraft down to 3 by using bicycles and mega-hops. However, one of the jumps is so difficult that I've never been able to pull it off with a wanted level, so may as well call it 4. At first I thought the bicycles in 4 star LV would be impossible. It's difficult, and really easy to get busted, but the bicycles don't take damage so they last forever. There are lots of fences and rails to bunny-hop in LV, so once you've got some good routes running from the cops is a lot of fun. Also, CJ can't take hits from the helicopter while riding a bicycle.

Phreak told me a cool trick a long time ago, but I only tried it out recently. The Broadway gets a huge "health" bonus every time the Pimping mission is started. This can bring a burning Broadway back to more than full health, but can't fix a flat tire. The vigilante vehicles can't get flats during the mission, and targets do spawn in restricted areas, so cop bikes are a great vehicle in areas with lots of roadblocks.† Neither of these missions will increment the attempt stat if the mission has already been completed.

Phreak has spoken highly of the Skimmer, but I don't seem to have much luck with it. The Maverick in SF is a little unusual. The Hydra doesn't seem to come after it unless CJ exits and enters again, or spends a long time messing around. I can't quite make it too the LV horseshoes with it before the hydra finally shows up, but the Maverick is too big to fit on top of the Come-A-Lot towers anyway.

Speaking of Oysters, I finally figured out how to cross the entire bay with a boat or aircraft without earning a wanted level. The tight spot is the area around the eastern ship parked in the bay, the one you swim to from the rocks by Pier 69. In a boat,† there's a narrow strip on the east and north side of the ship that allows safe passage; round the stern very closely and you should be safe. In an aircraft I try to follow a similar path and snake over the center of the ship. More to the point; sometimes at while collecting the upper dam oysters, the helicopters will spawn underwater and then die when they reach the surface. The bots really have a difficult time understanding the water level that area.

Hey there
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you.
The Icons for the Fast Food places do not appear on the map.

I was curious about the 3 (or 4) Horseshoes that require air vehicles to obtain, which ones are they?

Also, I'm into getting all of the 69 Unique Jumps at the beginning, there's only one that's difficult: it's the eastbound jump at the Camel's Toe, if I had an NRG-500 it wouldn't be so hard.
Do you know how to get an NRG-500 into Las Ventures? Or, do you have an easier way to complete that jump?
I can get vehicles out of Las Ventures into Red County, but not the other way around.

I didn't know about the Broadways and the Bicycles, that's a great tip.

About the Vigilante Mission, I tried it in the desert (4-Stars), but no criminals ever appeared, and the game ended the mission on it's own, same with the Paramedic Mission that I tried in Angel Pine (also with 4-Stars).

Believe it or not, I have landed a Maverick on the Come-A-Lot tower (the one in front of the casino with the billboard sign on it); it was by accident, I hovered over top and jumped out, the Maverick came down and landed between the two red-tower points. I've done it a couple of times since then as well, but I've only been able to takeoff from there once, most of the time the Maverick's Rotor won't spin because it's slamming into the tower, so I end up jumping off with a parachute, which doesn't always open in time.

The other Come-A-Lot tower (the one inside the casino complex) is very easy to land a helicopter on.

MC.
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#62

Posted 18 August 2007 - 09:51 PM

Holy crap, that Mulholland Garage trick is amazing. Cool find dude.

gg

OrionSR
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#63

Posted 19 August 2007 - 04:58 AM

QUOTE (zmoonchild @ Aug 18 2007, 14:28)
I was curious about the 3 (or 4) Horseshoes that require air vehicles to obtain, which ones are they?

Also, I'm into getting all of the 69 Unique Jumps at the beginning, there's only one that's difficult: it's the eastbound jump at the Camel's Toe, if I had an NRG-500 it wouldn't be so hard.
Do you know how to get an NRG-500 into Las Ventures? Or, do you have an easier way to complete that jump?
I can get vehicles out of Las Ventures into Red County, but not the other way around.

About the Vigilante Mission, I tried it in the desert (4-Stars), but no criminals ever appeared, and the game ended the mission on it's own, same with the Paramedic Mission that I tried in Angel Pine (also with 4-Stars).

Believe it or not, I have landed a Maverick on the Come-A-Lot tower (the one in front of the casino with the billboard sign on it); it was by accident, I hovered over top and jumped out, the Maverick came down and landed between the two red-tower points. I've done it a couple of times since then as well, but I've only been able to takeoff from there once, most of the time the Maverick's Rotor won't spin because it's slamming into the tower, so I end up jumping off with a parachute, which doesn't always open in time.

The other Come-A-Lot tower (the one inside the casino complex) is very easy to land a helicopter on.

The Air Horseshoes are the two at Come-A-Lot, and the one on top of Emerald Isle. The one on the Billboard over the freeway can be reached with a perfectly timed mega-hop and a bunch of speed on a Mt. Bike (found at Creek), I've never tried on a serious collection with a wanted level. It's far easier to collect by other methods. The Billboard Horseshoe is usually the 1st one I collect. I come in by air and parachute onto the target, then head off to collect a Seasparrow and get the other required air-shoes before switching to a Mt Bike for the mega-hop-shoes. Then there are a handful of climbing-shoes that are easier to get with a Mt. Bike, so I get those next. I have a tendency to keep using the Mt Bike longer than I should because it's my new favorite trick, but the rest are pretty easy to collect with a PCJ or BF-400 if you know how to manage CJs health and armor, and also have good places to park.

Yeah, okay. So the Maverick can land but can't take off. Only the sparrows can do both. This is my last require air-shoe, so I don't mind bailing when things get hairy. I've been having a lot of luck shaking the Hydra with my Seasparrow. If I constantly flip to look-behind, I can see him spawn in (it's almost always a new one, the one you saw unspawns while circling unless you hold still) and cut hard to one side and avoid almost all the missiles.

Taxi and Pimping can be started in restricted territory. I've given both a shot but haven't completed them. The health boost to the Broadway can give you a reasonable start on Pimping, but it can't be toggled during the mission. It might be possible to reach level 10, maybe. I tried Taxi in SF and there was no hope of 50 in a row, but if you don't mind multiple restarts then there are methods to manage a good run. I was having some luck with getting out of pedestrian zone and freezing the timer while I slipped in the back door to the pay'n'spray.

I don't save my jumps, even the found ones, and restart if I accidentally trigger one. I like to save them for messing around and enjoy landing the bonus. However, I do like to visit and score the jumps just for the fun of it. Rubregg has a video showing method to jump and NRG into LV <Early LV / The NRG Jump>. I've had inconsistent luck with this jump, but landed it once with a Freeway. I have much better luck with a Bullet and Nitrous, other very fast cars might take the hop better and make it without the mod, but I only tried the Sandking - no luck. But I still struggle with that pyramid jump, even with an NRG and no stars. I have much better luck jumping an Infernus, Banshee, or Bullet, and look to jack one when it comes time. And speaking of restricted jumps, one of the Rallies rubregg and I have been working on is called Katie Jumps.

< Katie Jumps - revert >

Meet Katie for a date while driving an NRG. The date will automatically fail due to the high wanted level, but Katie will remain on the back of the bike for 6 minutes before she bails and runs off. The goal is to complete as many SF unique stunt jumps as possible and score the bonus with Katie as a passenger.

Anyway, it's stuff like this that I like to save my jumps for, so I never save them.

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#64

Posted 21 August 2007 - 11:24 AM Edited by zmoonchild, 21 August 2007 - 11:27 AM.

QUOTE (OrionSR @ Aug 19 2007, 00:58)
The Air Horseshoes are the two at Come-A-Lot, and the one on top of Emerald Isle. The one on the Billboard over the freeway can be reached with a perfectly timed mega-hop and a bunch of speed on a Mt. Bike (found at Creek), I've never tried on a serious collection with a wanted level. It's far easier to collect by other methods. The Billboard Horseshoe is usually the 1st one I collect. I come in by air and parachute onto the target, then head off to collect a Seasparrow and get the other required air-shoes before switching to a Mt Bike for the mega-hop-shoes. Then there are a handful of climbing-shoes that are easier to get with a Mt. Bike, so I get those next. I have a tendency to keep using the Mt Bike longer than I should because it's my new favorite trick, but the rest are pretty easy to collect with a PCJ or BF-400 if you know how to manage CJs health and armor, and also have good places to park.

Yeah, okay. So the Maverick can land but can't take off. Only the sparrows can do both. This is my last require air-shoe, so I don't mind bailing when things get hairy. I've been having a lot of luck shaking the Hydra with my Seasparrow. If I constantly flip to look-behind, I can see him spawn in (it's almost always a new one, the one you saw unspawns while circling unless you hold still) and cut hard to one side and avoid almost all the missiles.

Taxi and Pimping can be started in restricted territory. I've given both a shot but haven't completed them. The health boost to the Broadway can give you a reasonable start on Pimping, but it can't be toggled during the mission. It might be possible to reach level 10, maybe. I tried Taxi in SF and there was no hope of 50 in a row, but if you don't mind multiple restarts then there are methods to manage a good run. I was having some luck with getting out of pedestrian zone and freezing the timer while I slipped in the back door to the pay'n'spray.

I don't save my jumps, even the found ones, and restart if I accidentally trigger one. I like to save them for messing around and enjoy landing the bonus. However, I do like to visit and score the jumps just for the fun of it. Rubregg has a video showing method to jump and NRG into LV <Early LV / The NRG Jump>. I've had inconsistent luck with this jump, but landed it once with a Freeway. I have much better luck with a Bullet and Nitrous, other very fast cars might take the hop better and make it without the mod, but I only tried the Sandking - no luck.  But I still struggle with that pyramid jump, even with an NRG and no stars. I have much better luck jumping an Infernus, Banshee, or Bullet, and look to jack one when it comes time. And speaking of restricted jumps, one of the Rallies rubregg and I have been working on is called Katie Jumps.

< Katie Jumps - revert >

Meet Katie for a date while driving an NRG. The date will automatically fail due to the high wanted level, but Katie will remain on the back of the bike for 6 minutes before she bails and runs off. The goal is to complete as many SF unique stunt jumps as possible and score the bonus with Katie as a passenger.

Anyway, it's stuff like this that I like to save my jumps for, so I never save them.

My latest tactic for dealing with the Hydras while flying the Seasparrow is to fly very low to the ground, also flying very close to sides of the cliffs (in the desert) and buildings (in downtown LV), this helps in causing the Hydra thatís circling overhead to come in low or close to a building, and crash. Also, flying close to something (buildings, cliffs, etc.) helps in using that object as a deflector for the Hydras missiles.

I read through some of your others posts and a few questions:
You said that starting a Vigilante mission to move vehicles into The Johnson House garage to keep the Grove Street audio message from occurring (at the beginning of the game) will not increase mission attempts, I tried that and I my mission attempts increased. I usually move cars in during the Burglary Mission to keep the audio messege from occurring.

You stated that itís somewhat easy to get vehicles from LS to SF near the Flint Intersection. Can you describe that? Iíve always used the Unique Jump off of the cliff into SF Airport, but it requires a vehicle with a lot of speed; like an Infernus or Turismo.

I tried a Pimping Mission once in Red County, and the game indicated that the prostitute was in LV, which was still blocked off, I couldnít get the Broadway across the bridge. Nice tip about the rejuvenating Broadway, but that also increases mission attempts, at least for me it does.

I have done taxi missions in 4-Star areas just to prove that it could be done, too frustrating, the cabs are too slow and get shot up too easily.

I didnít know that having a passenger on the bike increased the payout for Unique Jumps, I have gotten Michelle to ride around on the bike during a 4-Star disastrous date, I drove to the dance club just to see what would happen, nothing did.

I never cared about the Unique Jumps until someone made a comment about how they had seen 13.37% done before ĎBig Smokeí, but that the Unique Jumps were usually never done, so I decided to do them.

I have never tried jumping onto the Sphinx at The Camelís Toe; I have landed a helicopter on the Sphinxís back, gotten out, and ran along the outer edge to get the horseshoe, itís not too hard after you've already landed the helicopter.

Youíve really helped in giving me more resources in attempting 4-Star missions.
Thanks. smile.gif

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#65

Posted 21 August 2007 - 04:33 PM

I have to agree with OrionSR about the Mt. Bike trick. And with zmoonchild about the dodging Hydras and Police Mavericks near cliffs and buildings. I use both of these myself.

If you are not using a BP/EP/FP/DP Vehicle then drawing them into self destruction becomes a must, regardless of whether ground or air units, instead of a mischieveous pastme when you have such a vehicle. wink.gif

Don't you just love dumping those cops that are trying to open you door and arrest you? Sometimes it is worth letting them try just to dump them. biggrin.gif

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#66

Posted 21 August 2007 - 07:43 PM Edited by OrionSR, 21 August 2007 - 07:49 PM.

The fly low and close to obstacles strategy works well for me too. This was my preferred method but got me into trouble while crossing a few open areas, so I developed the look behind strategy for those crossings. But flying low and close and looking backwards doesn't usually work out so well, so I mix up my plans depending on where I am.

Vigilante, Pimping, and many of the other side missions, won't increment the attempts IF they have already been completed. Sorry if I wasn't clear on this point. I heard there's something weird about the NRG Challange though; something like BMX needs to be completed too for some reason. Burglary always increases the attempts and never counts as completed.

I've got 4 jumps from LS to SF. The unique jump into the airport can be landed with an NRG or any of the top 14 fastest vehicles, without the need for nitrous. I think Phreak told me it can also be landed with an FCR if done perfectly. The other easy jump can be cleared without almost any reasonably fast vehicle. There's a small lip to the north of the bridge between Santa Maria and Flint Intersection. Dodge traffic and take it at speed and you shouldn't have any trouble making the jump to SF. The same jump can also be cleared in the other direction with a few of the fastest vehicles in the game, but I've managed to collect a Bullet, Banger, and Bandito. Here's my video example:

<In Like Flint>

There's another fairly easy bike jump from the Panopticon to Fallen Tree. I can manage it with a Wayfarer, but not with any 4-wheeled vehicles due to the steep incline at the landing zone. The video below also shows Phreak's cool trick of crossing the Panopticon Bridge on the outside ledge. BTW, too much speed too early won't help on this jump. Wait until you've got good traction before gunning it.

<Panopticon Playground>

There's another Early Access jump from the road that leads south from Blueberry to the grassy hill near the train tracks. I've only recently learned to make this jump fairly consistently, and don't have any videos. However, this jump is on the Skipping Palomino route so rubregg might publish a screenshot and map for it.

I didn't know a passenger increased the payout for unique jumps either. Did you notice that in practice or was my explanation unclear? As far as I know, having Katie as a passenger only makes the jumps a little more challenging, there's no point to doing it other than to see if the jumps can be done within the time limit. Katie's passenger comments can be fun in slow motion.

I'm still not sure on my preferred method for the Sphinx horseshoe. I've been stunting bikes and Mt Bikes up his back. The raised area between the sphinx and pyramid is fairly save from cops, so I can take a few shots at it. When I tried rubregg's jump onto the paw CJ got wet, but I suspect with a little unrestricted practice I could land it almost every time.

I've learned a few tricks from you as well, but I'm still trying to figure out how to include them in my game. I'll let you know how things turn out. But here's another trick that you might find interesting: On the 4th floor of the Emerald Isle carpark in a small ledge just before the ramp up to the next level. If CJ jumps over the rail and steps away from the wall, all of the vehicles in the garage will instantly disappear. Step closer again and a new set of vehicles will appear. I use this location to spawn good vehicles from a safe location (watch out for raining cops). Also, Emerald Isle is a good target for arriving by air, but the heliport is full of cops. The roof of the 3rd floor is a much saver landing zone.

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#67

Posted 27 August 2007 - 11:54 PM

OrionSR, I'm delighted you've come over to gtaforums... I've read a lot of your posts in on the GTplanet message boards, and really liked your videos.

A big thanks also to the OP for finding out that vehicles can be saved on top of the Mulholland save house... I now have a new favorite save point.

My master save file adventures started out by simply wanting to get all the gang tags, ambulance, and other monotonous missions out of the way in the first save. As I progressed, I couldn't resist adding more and more things to the list, until eventually I found myself reading Flow_wolf's guide and trying to get all of it done.

Others have already contributed far more to these efforts than I could possibly add, but here are two tips that I found really helped me:

Use tear gas
This really helped, especially when I was first learning how to rampage through restricted areas to get the collectibles. The tear gas spreads pretty far and keeps your enemies on foot disabled for 30 seconds, while leaving vehicles untouched. This makes it especially useful for stealing enforcers helpfully brought to you by the police. It also helps with getting into helicopters (which take a while to spin up) and back on to bikes after accidentally falling, since the gas provides an area of protection for a while after you enter your vehicle. Without violence, without hate... tear gas appeals to the pacifist gangster in me.

Multiple road blocks
A lot of people seem to think that roadblocks are to be avoided at all cost. Wrong! If you see a roadblock, change course and see if you can get the game to spawn another roadblock close by. If you succeed, you can go back to the original roadblock without fear... all the swat teams will have disappeared, leaving only their unmanned enforcers on the scene. (This applies to my PC version... I suspect it works the same on the console versions.) Free armor, free transport, or simply just the freedom to use your original route.

-------

Incidentally (and slightly off topic), would anyone know an entrance to Blue Hell which you could enter with a helicopter like the Sea Sparrow? In GTA Phreak's "Black Project Revisited" video, he shows how to get to the black project (and its jet pack) by flying through Blue Hell (in a jetpack, in his video). If I'm not mistaken, the black project jetpack is there from the very beginning of the game, so anyone who could get a helicopter into Blue Hell would theoretically have the jetpack at his disposal... without cheats! This would make it possible to do Horseshoe collection in one go, for example (something I'm interested in because it is the only restricted collection video Orion_SR has not yet made.)

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#68

Posted 29 August 2007 - 05:33 PM

Forget the part in my last post about the jetpack. I was mistaken about it spawning at the beginning of the game. Too bad...

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#69

Posted 31 August 2007 - 09:09 PM

QUOTE (jheath @ Aug 28 2007, 01:54)
Incidentally (and slightly off topic), would anyone know an entrance to Blue Hell which you could enter with a helicopter like the Sea Sparrow?  In GTA Phreak's "Black Project Revisited" video, he shows how to get to the black project (and its jet pack) by flying through Blue Hell (in a jetpack, in his video).  If I'm not mistaken, the black project jetpack is there from the very beginning of the game, so anyone who could get a helicopter into Blue Hell would theoretically have the jetpack at his disposal... without cheats!  This would make it possible to do Horseshoe collection in one go, for example (something I'm interested in because it is the only restricted collection video Orion_SR has not yet made.)


With my original method you could take a helicopter (some planes might work as well) to blue hell, provided it sinks! So the Sea Sparrow won't work.

It involves the "Walk under water glitch", - in a few underwater places (where there's a significant overhang of dry land) the game gets confused and thinks CJ is on dry land.
Once "undrowned" you can freely walk around on the seabed.

The method is explained in Glenster FAQ, - I'd recommend using the Panopticon spot with helicopters. (build up some lung capacity first as it's rather deep)
If you sink a vehicle nearby and push it into the same spot (undrown CJ first) you can "unsink" the vehicle as well when getting in. Pushing is easy because the vehicle will be semi-buoyant.
Once the helicopter is "unsunk" you fly it underwater to one side of the map and go down through the seabed to "blue hell" (the opposite of the video).

You can do the same with a jetpack, - just "mount" the jetpack with a weapon targeted and walk into the water, this way the jetpack won't "attach" before you "undrown" CJ.

Most planes end up standing on the nose while submerged and are very likely to blow up once "undrowned", but I think I've managed it with the Rustler (extend wheels before ditching wink.gif )

That method might also be useful to bring back rare road vehicles from restricted teritory.

I got the much simpler method used in the video from the GameFAQs Secrets FAQ (PS2) by The Duff Man blush.gif

But you're correct there isn't a Jetpack there from the beginning. I haven't found enough space on top of the underground structure to land an aircraft either, - so you have to warp in (bail out near the structure and you'll warp to the bottom of the well). And since you can't get a jetpack, - the only way out is getting busted/wasted.

user posted image


You got some useful tricks there!

Another trick with the Sea Sparrow is to land it pointing in the direction where cops is likely to spawn and when you get back in simply hose 'em with the minigun while the rotor spins up tounge.gif
Works very well if you want to boost your gambling skills early at Caligula's. Land on the roof by the door used in "Breaking the Bank", the spot is fairly well protected from Hydra's but foot cops will spawn on the roof. (you can get a snack in the basement too)

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#70

Posted 04 September 2007 - 12:26 PM

QUOTE (jheath @ Aug 27 2007, 19:54)
Others have already contributed far more to these efforts than I could possibly add, but here are two tips that I found really helped me:

Use tear gas
This really helped, especially when I was first learning how to rampage through restricted areas to get the collectibles.† The tear gas spreads pretty far and keeps your enemies on foot disabled for 30 seconds, while leaving vehicles untouched.† This makes it especially useful for stealing enforcers helpfully brought to you by the police.† It also helps with getting into helicopters (which take a while to spin up) and back on to bikes after accidentally falling, since the gas provides an area of protection for a while after you enter your vehicle.† Without violence, without hate... tear gas appeals to the pacifist gangster in me.

Multiple road blocks
A lot of people seem to think that roadblocks are to be avoided at all cost.† Wrong!† If you see a roadblock, change course and see if you can get the game to spawn another roadblock close by.† If you succeed, you can go back to the original roadblock without fear... all the swat teams will have disappeared, leaving only their unmanned enforcers on the scene.† (This applies to my PC version... I suspect it works the same on the console versions.)† Free armor, free transport, or simply just the freedom to use your original route.SR has not yet made.)

I totally agree with your roadblock scenario; itís always worked great for me.

I have just recently started using tear gas on a regular basis, and was wondering how effective it would be in a 4-Star area. Iím going to try it out there and see how it works.
smile.gif

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#71

Posted 04 September 2007 - 05:18 PM

QUOTE (zmoonchild @ Sep 4 2007, 06:26)
I have just recently started using tear gas on a regular basis, and was wondering how effective it would be in a 4-Star area. Iím going to try it out there and see how it works.
smile.gif

In my experience tear gas was only ever useful for rampaging through 4-star areas. When your wanted level is below four stars, using tear gas is actually counter-productive, since your wanted level rises as quickly as if you were using molotov cocktails. You'd think the cops would appreciate your efforts to spare their lives, but no. It is also useless in missions, since most enemies appear to be immune to the gas.

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#72

Posted 04 September 2007 - 06:22 PM

QUOTE (GTA Phreak @ Aug 31 2007, 15:09)
With my original method you could take a helicopter (some planes might work as well) to blue hell, provided it sinks! So the Sea Sparrow won't work.

etc etc...

Thanks for the response, those are some neat tricks! I remember reading Glenster's guide a while back, but had forgotten about the vehicles underwater glitch.

Any thoughts about collecting all the restricted horse-shoes in one go? Without some elegant trick, I have the feeling a video of CJ running around Las Venturas like a lost tourist would get pretty boring after a while. Perhaps doing it all on a bicycle and sea sparrow would spice things up a little?

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#73

Posted 04 September 2007 - 08:00 PM

Good luck with collecting all the horseshoes in one go, - I think my record is around 40.
But maybe the teargas works wonders ....

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#74

Posted 07 September 2007 - 07:16 PM Edited by OrionSR, 07 September 2007 - 07:21 PM.

QUOTE (jheath @ Sep 4 2007, 11:22)
Any thoughts about collecting all the restricted horse-shoes in one go?  Without some elegant trick, I have the feeling a video of CJ running around Las Venturas like a lost tourist would get pretty boring after a while.  Perhaps doing it all on a bicycle and sea sparrow would spice things up a little?

<Restricted Horseshoes>

I have a few notes on the difficult horseshoes in rubregg's stickied Early Side-Mission topic. Check the link above. To summarize, I finally managed to collect all horseshoe in one trip by adding bicycles to the mix. A few choice mega-hops and CJ can collect all but 3 (better call it 4) horseshoes without aircraft. The strategy is to parachute to the billboard because the mega-hop is damn near impossible, then head off to collect a Seasparrow and collect the flying horseshoes before wasting time on anything else. If the Seasparrow is in good health, I might try for a couple of the mega-hop horseshoes, particularly the one on the Casino sign, before bailing after the Mt. Bike at Creek.

There are a handful of raised horseshoes that can be collected by mega-hop (the fire uzi during bunny hop trick), which made all the difference in making a successful collection in one trip. Also, regular bunny-hops are a good way to collect some of the climbing horseshoes, so it's temping to keep riding longer than necessary and get busted. The rest of the horseshoes don't really present much trouble if you know how to maintain CJ's vehicle, armor, and health.

Even if you are very experienced in 4-star land, it takes a while to get used to the different strategies required to keep CJ from getting busted on a bicycle. It was like starting over again for a while. But after I learned the basic dangers, and discovered routes that bunny-hop where the cops can't follow, bicycles in restricted LV proved to be a great deal of fun. Two main advantages are that the bike doesn't take damage, and won't explode or be destroyed even if other vehicles blow up around it (unless it's upside down). Also, CJ apparently can't be hit by the Police Maverick's gun while riding a bike.

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#75

Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:20 PM

Can someone explain to me what this thread actually means? ... dozingoff.gif

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#76

Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:48 PM

QUOTE (Seleets @ Sep 7 2007, 14:20)
Can someone explain to me what this thread actually means? ... dozingoff.gif

4 Star is a term usually associated with visiting areas of the map before they are officially unlocked - CJ gets a 4 star wanted level that won't go away until he returns to safe territory. There are several missions, collections, and events available from the beginning of the game, and it's not necessary to complete the 1st mission before CJ can save. This presents an interesting challenge for people who have played through the main story at least once. How much can be completed before CJ steps into the marker at Grove Street?

jheath
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#77

Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:44 PM

QUOTE (OrionSR @ Sep 7 2007, 13:16)
... I finally managed to collect all horseshoe in one trip by adding bicycles to the mix. A few choice mega-hops and CJ can collect all but 3 (better call it 4) horseshoes without aircraft. The strategy is to parachute to the billboard because the mega-hop is damn near impossible, then head off to collect a Seasparrow and collect the flying horseshoes before wasting time on anything else. If the Seasparrow is in good health, I might try for a couple of the mega-hop horseshoes, particularly the one on the Casino sign, before bailing after the Mt. Bike at Creek.

Seems like I'm always coming to the party just a little bit late. Congratulations on doing it all in one run... I've found that it is indeed very difficult. smile.gif

-----

On a different track, has anyone had any luck collecting the following two airplanes in a Master Save File?

Rustler

In Flow_wolf's guide, he mentions that you could drag the Rustler from its hanger in the SF airport to your Doherty garage using a tow truck. Sounds simple enough, right? I even worked out a nice route to the garage using a stretch of railroad track to minimize the number of police vehicle spawns.

The problem is I can't even get the plane out of the airport. The wingspan is too large for it to fit straight through either of the two entrance tunnels, and when I try to tow it or push it through diagonally the friction causes the plane to blow up halfway through. (Too bad they didn't include a can of oil in the weapons list... the oil slicks in GTA2 were a lot of fun. As were the landmines... but I digress). I've also tried dropping off the overpass over the entrance road, but always ended up with either the tow truck flipped, the plane flipped, or both.

My third (failed) method was to try to jump the gap on the north side of the airport, since there is an encouraging height difference between the runway and the ground on the other side. Sadly, I can't build up enough speed; the Rustler almost makes it, but not quite, and follows me into the water. I had heard somewhere that you could whip a tractor's payload out at high speed by making a hard turn (see, for example, midway through Psy's stunt video), but I haven't been able to reproduce this with any payload, let alone one with locked wheels. The tractor's speed when pulling the plane is particularly abysmal. I'm not sure if perhaps multiple tractors or tow trucks chained together could perhaps confuse the physics engine to produce better results, since I've lacked the patience to try it.

One idea I've been toying with is sinking the plane, and then using GTA Phreak's underwater glitch to tow it out with an unsunk tow truck. The problem, embarrassingly enough, is that I can't figure out how to make the glitch work in the first place. Even with maximum lung capacity, I can never find the magical place where the breath meter starts filling up again, and CJ ends up drowning. I hope it's just something that I'm doing wrong, and not something like the glitch only working on the console versions. I'm also unsure about how the game handles the transition from walking underwater to going back to land... would the land vehicle revert to a sunken state upon reaching the shore? Any helpful words of advice would be appreciated.

The Hydra

This one is a tough nut to crack. Knocking the plane out of the air is easy enough with the Sea Sparrow's minigun (just keep turning and firing while the stupid AI pilot flies in circles.) The problem begins with the fact that it is difficult to control just where the wreckage will fall. I'm not even sure if the game keeps track of the wreck once falls out of eyesight; the Sparrow is slow to accelerate once you switch from attacking to retrieval. Ideally I'd try to knock the Hydra out over a large area with few obstacles, like the Los Santos airport, where you could keep large pushing vehicles like the Fire Truck standing by. I suppose SF airport would work too, given the short distance to the Doherty garage, connected by a railroad line where no cops spawn.

In test trials I've found that tear gas was essential for whenever you are on foot during the pushing phase, as well as providing temporary protection from getting busted while in a vehicle. Taking time away from pushing to shoot at foot cops is simply too distracting unless done in no-ped zones, since the cops respawn almost immediately. Vehicles tend to wear our quickly from the combined effect of ramming the wreckage and the occasional hail of bullets. If I were a more patient man I would set up multiple pushing vehicles ahead of time along the route from the anticipated crash location to the garage, but that's an awful lot of setup for something that requires many repeated attempts.

The thought of luring a Hydra into the water has crossed my mind, but I am doubtful of the possibilities for success, so it's not something I've tested very much. Again, my inability to get the underwater glitch to work tempers my enthusiasm a bit. smile.gif

OrionSR
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#78

Posted 08 September 2007 - 12:17 AM Edited by OrionSR, 10 September 2007 - 08:04 AM.

Regarding Flow_wolf's guide: With all due respect, (and I worked with him a bit on his guide, he really did a nice job detailing the stats and missions), I'm not convinced all of the challenges he proposed are possible. He had been through the master file creation process once, and was at the stage of keeping the arrests and deaths to avoid a number of problems. Had he tried again, I suspect he would have had a much better grip on what could or could not be accomplished.

I haven't attempted to collect either of the aircraft you mentioned. I suppose it's technically possible. Perhaps something can be learned from special vehicle guides. Phreak has suggested the underwater method of collecting the Flint Monster, but I haven't been able to figure it out either, so I've been sticking to non-glitch methods. I would suggest trying to unlock that Rustler on a Green Sabre through Flight School save before attempting it with a wanted level.

Keep in mind that Flow_wolf was a PS2 player. The light-speed tractor glitch isn't nearly as strong on PC systems. Perhaps you could get it close enough to the... Nope, sorry. The import crane is inactive. You know, I'm not even sure if there's a garage available that's big enough to hold a plane, so..., I guess that's one reason I've never tried.

I've had a bit of success with collecting a handful or rare vehicles early in the game.

Vigilante: if the mission has been passed, then toggling it again won't increment the attempt stat, so you can keep starting levels 1 and 2 to see if anything interesting spawns. This is effective for vehicles like the Patriot, Euros, Phoenix, and Hotknife, perhaps others as well.

Flint Intersection: It's a difficult jump, but fairly fast cars can clear the water from Flint Intersection to Santa Maria. I've managed to collect a Bullet, Bandio, and Bloodring Banger using this method.

Mako Span: This bridge is only blocked on the LS side (thanks Phreak), so it's possible to get some vehicles to clear the rail and land on dry ground. This is fairly easy with a Dune (just press the nose against the east rail and push on over), and Sandking (much easier with raised hydraulics). And of course the rail is very easy to clear with a bunny-hop. I've also managed to collect a Turismo by cutting across the center divider and tumbling over the rail.

Doherty Garage: Since this garage is open and available to store vehicles from the beginning of the game, I've also made the effort to stash a few vehicles there as well. It's not that difficult of a challenge however. The jump from Santa Maria to Flint Intersection is a pretty easy in almost any moderately fast vehicle.

Boats: I occasionally hear about people having temperamental success transporting vehicles by boat - mostly in getting an NRG to LV. It's my last hope for collecting that Monster, Michelle's too I suppose, unless I can get lucky, roll over a car that launches in the air and takes the Monster with it, and hope it lands across the water.

Added: For anyone interested in collecting rare vehicles early in the game: the SFPD cop car can probably be collected with the Flint Jump. The LVPD cop car would qualify as unique - well unique on a Master Save anyway, but I'm not sure if I can bounce it over the rail like I didn't with the Turismo. This was just a thought I had while working on something else, I haven't tried to see if it's actually possible.

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#79

Posted 08 September 2007 - 04:53 PM

Ok, - I'll try to explain the underwater glitch spots in a bit more detail:

Hanky Panky point:
user posted image
It's up a slope so a bit difficult to undrown vehicles here.

Panopticon:
user posted image
This spot is in unrestricted territory so if the police helicopters gets a bit annoying (they aren't effective at hurting CJ but can easily blow up vehicles that happen to be near CJ), then you can just wander around until the wanted level drops to 2*

Recovering the Flint Monster:
user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

The seabed around Panopticon is rough terrain, - luckily the Monster is ideally suited for that.
Had to drive all the way to East LS for a suitable landing spot.

Flint County
user posted image
This is in restricted territory, - so mandatory 4*'s during recovery (bring something to fend off the heli's).
The seabed is nice and flat around here and vehicles can easily be landed on Santa Maria beach (brought back the Bandito in the picture).

There's several spots along the S shore of Flint, - here's another:
user posted image
Pick any helicopter you like wink.gif They aren't all destroyed, some drowned on their own. I brought back a News Chopper but didn't find a garage big enough to store it.


I'm not very optimistic about recovering airplanes with this method, - all I've tried blew up on undrowning (incl. the Rustler).
As for recovering a destroyed Hydra in the Doherty garage (it will fit), - I gave that up when I wasn't even able to recover one that I destroyed right outside the garage. The wreck pretty much unspawned instantly.
Pushing a drowned Hydra onto dry land isn't promising either, - it will blow if the wheels aren't out.
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jheath
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#80

Posted 10 September 2007 - 03:29 AM

Thank you GTA Phreak for the very helpful details, and especially for going to the extra trouble of making screengrabs! I'm having a lot of fun under the sea... life is better down where it's wetter.

So, two extremely skilled and seasoned veterans are telling me that the chances of obtaining the Rustler and the Hydra are slim to none. That's I figured... which is why I consider the challenge interesting. smile.gif We'll see if I get anywhere with this; if anyone comes up with clever ideas, I'd love to hear them. San Andreas is a game that rewards creative thinking.

GTA Phreak, were you by chance on foot when the game unspawned the wreckage by the garage? I think the game behaves differently when you are on foot versus in a vehicle in that respect. I'll do some testing.

Of the two planes, I'm convinced that the Rustler would be the most doable. All I need to figure out is how to get it out of the airport.

One nice thing about getting the Rustler early would be that you could use the Custom's Fast Track glitch to make it EP/FP - invulnerable to Hydras. After getting shot out of the sky multiple times before I learned better evasion techniques, I'm itching to settle the score. Dog fights in Sea Sparrow just aren't as much fun.

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#81

Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:25 AM

Yes, thanks indeed Phreak. I get it now. Once I was down there I discovered that if I rotated the camera to face east or west, it would no longer be in the water, and it was really easy to tell that CJ was in a dry area. This seems to be shown in the 1st image of your Recovering the Flint Monster series. The other two images in that same general area have that blurry water effect, and the tint is noticeably different, even on the thumbnails. Another clear indication of dry ground is the change in sound.

I was a little confused by the undrowning of vehicles part. I wasn't having any luck until I scoped out a wide area to work with - the deepest location(-649.3661, -249.1725, -48.5). Once the whole car was in the corner if fell to the ground instead of floating and then if finally started.

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#82

Posted 10 September 2007 - 12:06 PM

If you can't get the vehicle all the way into the spot, - then it can occasionally be undrowned if CJ gets in it.

But yes the lighting / waviness and sound is the key for spotting the areas.

As for recovering airplanes, I had an idea which started very promising: An undrowned towtruck can hook onto drowned vehicles !!!
Sadly I've only gotten this to work with cars and helicopters. It seems the nose down attitude of drowned airplanes is making things difficult again.
I can however hook up cars which are standing on the nose provided it isn't tilted over backwards so maybe it can be done, either way towing a floating car is quite amusing lol.gif
Another possible stumbling point is that I haven't been able to hit the beach fast enough while towing something to avoid getting stuck in shallow water.


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#83

Posted 10 September 2007 - 04:32 PM

BTW, rubregg made an observation about swimming that I hadn't noticed before: swimming is much easier with Frame Limiter ON. It's a fairly dramatic difference. I was used to swimming with the frame limiter off, so when I switched it felt like CJ was a dolphin.

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#84

Posted 10 September 2007 - 05:28 PM

I have been considering using a similair method as the undronwning to try and aquire the BP/EP/FP/EP Elegant though I haven't attempted this method yet. To this date it is still on the unobtainable list.

I usually use the place just wesst of Hanky Panky Point to walk underwater and even push cars up to the entrance to undrowning point so I can drive underwater too. With 4* it is a real gas but I havent been on this thread in awhile and had no idea you were discussing it.

Still, the most fun I have had down there was in an Infernus. I have tried and failed many times to get a Mt. Bike or a NGR-500.

If someone discovers a method to get them down there let me in on it.

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#85

Posted 10 September 2007 - 06:25 PM

I can't get motorbikes to sink either (at least not very deep). In fact a PCJ-600 floats so high that you can stand on it.

But I do remember seeing a screenshot by spaceeinstein, where he rides a bike on the seafloor off Hankypanky point, - so try asking him.


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#86

Posted 10 September 2007 - 06:55 PM

QUOTE (HolyGrenadeFrenzy @ Sep 10 2007, 17:28)
I have been considering using a similair method as the undronwning to try and aquire the BP/EP/FP/EP Elegant though I haven't attempted this method yet. To this date it is still on the unobtainable list.

Sorry for this off-topic, but would you mind directing me to a guide containing unobtainable BP/EP/FP/EP Elegant?
When, during the mission (Management Issues, I presume) it has its proofings? Its not in SE guide, to be sure. I'm not going to try it right now, as I don't have a save close to that mission, but I'm really curious.

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#87

Posted 10 September 2007 - 10:37 PM Edited by HolyGrenadeFrenzy, 10 September 2007 - 10:41 PM.

QUOTE (pomor @ Sep 10 2007, 13:55)
QUOTE (HolyGrenadeFrenzy @ Sep 10 2007, 17:28)
I have been considering using a similair method as the undronwning to try and aquire the BP/EP/FP/EP Elegant though I haven't attempted this method yet.† To this date it is still on the unobtainable list.

Sorry for this off-topic, but would you mind directing me to a guide containing unobtainable BP/EP/FP/EP Elegant?
When, during the mission (Management Issues, I presume) it has its proofings? Its not in SE guide, to be sure. I'm not going to try it right now, as I don't have a save close to that mission, but I'm really curious.

There isn't one because it hasn't been obtainable yet... Knock yourself out. It makes a short appearance in Management Issues and then when the mission ends is destructible again. So far it is unobtainable. I don't think it makes itself apperant on the guide anymore unless there has been an new edit.

Here is the currrent and updating area to find such things.

All the known thus far vehicles are in System Error's Bulletproof Car Page on Game Faqs

Click and past to your address bar and then Remove the first":" :http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/grand_theft_auto_sa_bulletproof.txt

If you figure something out System Error will appriciate the heads up.

-HGF

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#88

Posted 13 September 2007 - 01:24 AM Edited by jheath, 13 September 2007 - 10:06 PM.

SUCCESS!

Well, sort of...

---

The Rustler is obtainable early. I've been able to do it in a save file where San Fierro is unlocked, but before Flight School, as per OrionSR's suggestion. I'll post pictures and edit this post once I get around to setting up an account with some free image hosting site. (Any suggestions as to which might be a good hosting site nowadays?)

The key to obtaining it is using the in-airport overpass, which goes over the entrance roads to the airport. I had previously tried dropping off the north-west side of the overpass, which resulted in both the plane and tow truck getting flipped because of its great height off the road. I even tried putting a packer under the overpass to reduce the drop, but that didn't help matters much. Only today did I notice that the drop from the south-east edge, close to the fence, is much smaller. The plane will take some damage from the fall, but about 50% of the time I can make it over with both upright and in decent shape. (It might help to leave a tow truck on the entrance road in case the first flips with the plane still ok.)

user posted image

From there it is just a short drive up the road to the railroad tracks, and then a quick cut over to the Doherty garage. A fair amount of the wing seems to pass through poles and other obstructions (like the train) without resistance, but I didn't test how much of the wingspan is non-solid while towing. The hill just before the tracks requires some speed to get over... the tow truck can't make it over if you stop. When I pushed the Rustler into the garage it blew up (probably due to friction between the wing and the motorcycle I had left in the door to keep it open), but fortunately it was fully in the garage by that point. Let the door close, and voila! The Rustler is yours. You can use the railway track as a quick and dirty runway.

user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
---

Obtaining the Rustler this way took me several tries, and any amount of police attention made things exponentially harder. It might be possible to use this technique in a Master Save File by making frequent stop to lay down some protective tear gas, but it would be damn difficult. Anyone interested in attempting it?


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#89

Posted 13 September 2007 - 02:08 AM

QUOTE (jheath @ Sep 12 2007, 18:24)
SUCCESS!

Well, sort of...

---

The Rustler is obtainable early. I've been able to do it in a save file where San Fierro is unlocked, but before Flight School, as per OrionSR's suggestion. I'll post pictures and edit this post once I get around to setting up an account with some free image hosting site. (Any suggestions as to which might be a good hosting site nowadays?)

The key to obtaining it is using the in-airport overpass, which goes over the entrance roads to the airport. I had previously tried dropping off the north-west side of the overpass, which resulted in both the plane and tow truck getting flipped because of its great height off the road. I even tried putting a packer under the overpass to reduce the drop, but that didn't help matters much. Only today did I notice that the drop from the south-east edge, close to the fence, is much smaller. The plane will take some damage from the fall, but about 50% of the time I can make it over with both upright and in decent shape. (It might help to leave a tow truck on the entrance road in case the first flips with the plane still ok.)

From there it is just a short drive up the road to the railroad tracks, and then a quick cut over to the Doherty garage. A fair amount of the wing seems to pass through poles and other obstructions (like the train) without resistance, but I didn't test how much of the wingspan is non-solid while towing. The hill just before the tracks requires some speed to get over... the tow truck can't make it over if you stop. When I pushed the Rustler into the garage it blew up (probably due to friction between the wing and the motorcycle I had left in the door to keep it open), but fortunately it was fully in the garage by that point. Let the door close, and voila! The Rustler is yours. You can use the railway track as a quick and dirty runway.

---

Obtaining the Rustler this way took me several tries, and any amount of police attention made things exponentially harder. It might be possible to use this technique in a Master Save File by making frequent stop to lay down some protective tear gas, but it would be damn difficult. Anyone interested in attempting it?

Wow, nice work. It's a good thing I tip toed around actually calling this impossible. As for an image host, I would suggest ImageShack.us. I posted images to that site almost 2 years ago when Phreak and I were still working on the <San Andreas Record Book - PC>. It looks like all but 2 of the images are still active.

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#90

Posted 13 September 2007 - 11:02 PM Edited by jheath, 14 September 2007 - 10:47 PM.

I'm having moderate amounts of success with repeating the Rustler rescue in 4-star mode. Here are my notes so far, on the off chance that I'm not the only one trying to do this. (Again, I'd be delighted if anyone else were to take a crack at it.)

Bringing the plane intact all the way to the Doherty garage by tow-truck appears to be a no-go. Constant ramming by police vehicles (combined with reckless driving on my part to avoid foot cops) either unhooks the plane or blows it up before I can make it to the railroad tracks. It doesn't take much to blow the plane, which usually takes the truck along with it. In lieu of towing the entire way, I've taken to towing the plane off the overpass, getting as far as possible before blowing, and then using Enforcers or whatever else comes in handy to ram the wreckage home.

There are two problems with this:
  • The flames from the plane's explosion are fierce and long-lasting. Any vehicle I use to push the wreckage from the blow-up point gets quickly toasted, and simply waiting on foot for the flames to die down takes interminably long. I've yet to test if using a fire truck (which would double as a good pushing vehicle) would be effective against the flames, as the fire department is slow to respond.
  • I'm worried that the wreckage will have a tendency to disappear, especially near the garage door. I'll do some testing in non-4-star environments to see how much of an issue this is. I think disappearing wrecks have something to do with how long and how often you look away from the wreck, which could be problematic when battling the police.
-------

Update:

Wreckage disappearing is indeed a major problem, both when in a pushing vehicle, and especially when pushing on foot. It's much more of a problem than the flames turned out to be, since those cease to be a problem once you've pushed the wreck out of the initial explosion area (switch cars as needed).

I've convinced myself that you pretty much have to bring back the plane intact via towing, despite the challenges of doing so in 4-star territory. However, I've figured out a few things which make the challenge significantly easier:
  • The drop from the overpass is low no matter which side you do it from, so long as you do it near the fence. I'm not sure why it took me so long to notice this obvious fact... I just hadn't explored the area thoroughly. This means you can do the drop from the north end of the overpass, heading west; this cuts off the long, traffic congested, foot-cop infested path I had been using to leave the airport.
  • When towing the airplane, lift the &*%#ing towing cable so that the locked front wheels of the rustler no longer touch the ground. Yes, it's obvious, but I had forgotten to do this before. The speed and stability of the tow truck improve immensely, making it much easier to avoid police and make it up hills. It even becomes possible to jump the gap on the north side of the airport, in case anyone wants to experiment with alternative paths.
  • Speaking of alternative paths, for the first stretch of railroad I now use the section underneath the raised highway parallel to the tracks, rather than the tracks themselves. It's faster, and I am beginning to suspect the jostling from towing over the tracks adds small amounts of damage to the plane.
I suspect each item on this list will be met with a "well, DUH" from the more experienced members of this forum. What can I say... better late than never. smile.gif

I'll be on vacation without internet for the next few days; I hope I can look forward to some replies on this and other 4-star issues when I get back. Have fun everybody!

---

Update 2

Would anyone know of a way to get a packer to restricted San Fierro? I'm not having any luck getting them to spawn on the roads.




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