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dronezero
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#61

Posted 04 May 2007 - 12:15 AM

QUOTE (K^2 @ May 3 2007, 12:28)
QUOTE (farrugia @ May 3 2007, 04:05)
A helicopter, by contrast, is slow.

Where do you keep getting that? A helicopter can fly slow, but it can also fly fast. A top speed for a typical turbine powered helicopter is about the same as for a typical single engine propeller airplane. And yes, minimal speed for a helicopter is hover, but minimal speed for an airplane is also reasonable. Most can fly as slow as vehicles on a highway. If you put in something like an ultralight, cut both the maximum and minimum speeds in half, and you get something that is only faster than a car to get around because it can take shortcuts.

Helicopters are generally slower than there single engine counterparts. Of course if you compare a turbine powered helicopter to a piston trainer airplane than they would be about the same, but that is not really an adequate comparison.

K^2
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#62

Posted 04 May 2007 - 12:50 AM

How many piston-powered helicopters are there left out there? They are almost all turbine now. The comparison I made is between a Bell Jet Ranger and Cessna 172. These are good substitutions for GTA's Maverick and Dodo. Their cruising speeds are nearly identical at about 120 knots. The only single engine plane in GTA's fleet to the date that should be able to beat that is Rustler.

dronezero
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#63

Posted 04 May 2007 - 01:35 AM

There's still a bunch of them. All helicopter pilots do most if not all of their training in a piston. The H-300 is a popular one that cruises around 90 kts. This would be a good comparison for a C-172. If you want to compare a Bell 206 with its airplane counterpart you would be looking at something like a Piper Malibu, which cruises around 200 kts.

K^2
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#64

Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:19 AM

We are talking about aircraft in the game, though. Dodo is certainly a Cessna 172. Maverick looks a lot like Bell Jet Ranger, but I am not as certain as with Dodo. It is, however, without a question, a turbine helicopter with characteristics most likely similar to that of the Ranger. Since we will almost certainly see Maverick return, any plane up to that kind of cruising speed will not make the map seem any smaller. That means Dodo, Skimmer, and a few other planes from previous GTA games are a fair game in terms of their speed capabilities.

soleil
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#65

Posted 04 May 2007 - 03:27 PM

K^2, why do you suppose Rockstar left planes out? People have offered ideas on why, but you refuse to accept them. Are you trying to prove that Rockstar has no reason to leave out planes? If so, then why do you suppose they left out planes? You think they did it for no reason?

K^2
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#66

Posted 04 May 2007 - 03:28 PM

I think they did it for no good reason. I'm sure they had a pile of bad ones, just like the ones people have been suggesting.

soleil
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#67

Posted 04 May 2007 - 03:29 PM

QUOTE (K^2 @ May 4 2007, 15:28)
I think they did it for no good reason. I'm sure they had a pile of bad ones, just like the ones people have been suggesting.

Well what bad reasons do you think are Rockstar's reasons?

nealmac
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#68

Posted 04 May 2007 - 03:39 PM

QUOTE (soleil @ May 1 2007, 16:34)
Yeah helicopters make way more sense than planes if you're only getting around NYC and not flying to Los Angeles or something. Who takes flights from JFK to La Guardia to Newark?

No one, generally. But in the case of GTA it would prove useful. It was certainly useful in San Andreas.

soleil
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#69

Posted 04 May 2007 - 03:49 PM

QUOTE (nealmac @ May 4 2007, 15:39)
QUOTE (soleil @ May 1 2007, 16:34)
Yeah helicopters make way more sense than planes if you're only getting around NYC and not flying to Los Angeles or something.  Who takes flights from JFK to La Guardia to Newark?

No one, generally. But in the case of GTA it would prove useful. It was certainly useful in San Andreas.

San Andreas has L.A., S.F., and L.V. People take flights between those cities a lot.

farrugia
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#70

Posted 04 May 2007 - 03:57 PM

I would have set the limit to ultralights. They are generally ineffective means of transportation from point A to point B, but offer a fun alternative to helicopters. Think flying from an airport and crashing into some apartment block downtown after having zigzagged between buildings. The critical factor imho is the altitude limit imposed on these vehicles. I don't think players should be able to fly as high as we were able to in San An. We should find flying beyond the top of skyscrapers a challenge in itself, and not get lost in the stratosphere as we did with the Hydras. Only then will the supposed verticality of LC be fully evident.

K^2
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#71

Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:14 PM

I suppose, 55 knots would be enough to make it interesting. Yeah, I can live with just ultralights.

I was thinking for a while about writing a letter to R* outlining good reason for inclusion of alternative aircraft, getting a bunch of signatures on it, and sending it by mail. I-net petitions tend not to work, but a good letter might have some impact. I suppose, it would be a good idea to focus it on ultralights, such as an autogyro and powered glider ("tricycle") weight-shift ultralights.

Johnny Burbank
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#72

Posted 04 May 2007 - 06:12 PM

Not to beat a dead horse, but I am record saying the game will have either a hot air baloon or a blimp or both.

farrugia
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#73

Posted 04 May 2007 - 06:14 PM

QUOTE (Johnny Burbank @ May 4 2007, 19:12)
Not to beat a dead horse, but I am record saying the game will have either a hot air baloon or a blimp or both.

I don't think so, but if they are I am on record stating that I'll buy you a beer.

Johnny Burbank
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#74

Posted 04 May 2007 - 06:28 PM

QUOTE (farrugia @ May 4 2007, 18:14)
QUOTE (Johnny Burbank @ May 4 2007, 19:12)
Not to beat a dead horse, but I am record saying the game will have either a hot air baloon or a blimp or both.

I don't think so, but if they are I am on record stating that I'll buy you a beer.


Deal. And if you are right I'll buy you a beer. No kidding. Wherever you are on the globe, call me up from the bar and I'll give the bartender my credit card number. A round on me.

farrugia
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#75

Posted 04 May 2007 - 07:28 PM

QUOTE (Johnny Burbank @ May 4 2007, 19:28)
QUOTE (farrugia @ May 4 2007, 18:14)
QUOTE (Johnny Burbank @ May 4 2007, 19:12)
Not to beat a dead horse, but I am record saying the game will have either a hot air baloon or a blimp or both.

I don't think so, but if they are I am on record stating that I'll buy you a beer.


Deal. And if you are right I'll buy you a beer. No kidding. Wherever you are on the globe, call me up from the bar and I'll give the bartender my credit card number. A round on me.

Done.

We've got plenty of witnesses.

edscoble
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#76

Posted 05 May 2007 - 04:38 AM

Jet pack.

from SA, remember? that'll be in the games, can't be possible for it to not be in GTAIV

K^2
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#77

Posted 05 May 2007 - 07:00 AM

Yup. There is also no way that R* will exclude planes, make the map any smaller than SA, have only one city, and much less going back to just LC for IV again. All these things are absolutely unthinkable, and there is no way R* will do any of them.

Stefan.
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#78

Posted 05 May 2007 - 11:40 AM

Well, come to think of it, I'll try Flish Simulator 2002 now, and try and fly over Manhattan. It'll be interesting to see how I manouvre around the buildings. smile.gif

Wolfenhoffen
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#79

Posted 06 May 2007 - 03:23 PM

QUOTE
Not to beat a dead horse, but I am record saying the game will have either a hot air baloon or a blimp or both

Wasn't there a blimp in Vice City?

Anyways, I think hang gliders would be a fantastic idea for IV.
They don't go too fast, so you won't fly over the city in a couple seconds and they can stay aloft for a long time, allowing you to maneuver around and in between sky scrapers. You can do at least a few tricks with a hang glider (barrel rolls, maybe flips, dives, inverted turns, etc).
It would be the perfect flying vehicle for the city.

[NEMESIS]
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#80

Posted 06 May 2007 - 05:28 PM

Zeppelin anybody?
It was popular in 1920's. Imagine snipers from zeppelin. ph34r.gif

BobbyBalboa
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#81

Posted 06 May 2007 - 06:12 PM

Even if the map was much smaller than SA, and set only in one city, I really don't care. Flying in planes is a huge part of GTA now. I don't see any reason why anyone at R* would even consider considering the possibility of even thinking about leaving planes out of GTAIV. It's stupid, and using "there's only one city" as a reason for leaving planes out doesn't make sense. It's not as though there are no planes in New York just because it's "only one city".

Cypress Hill
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#82

Posted 06 May 2007 - 07:05 PM

QUOTE (BobbyBalboa @ May 6 2007, 18:12)
Even if the map was much smaller than SA, and set only in one city, I really don't care. Flying in planes is a huge part of GTA now. I don't see any reason why anyone at R* would even consider considering the possibility of even thinking about leaving planes out of GTAIV. It's stupid, and using "there's only one city" as a reason for leaving planes out doesn't make sense. It's not as though there are no planes in New York just because it's "only one city".

Yeah, R* hasn't given a valid reason for why they're excluding planes, but keeping helis. These realism and "its only one city" excuses are bullsh*t. VC at least had the skimmer, and I'm sure IV will have bigger map than VC. R*'s newfound obsession with realism is worrying me. I get enough realism in real life. Its what I play GTA to get away from.

vininfinite
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#83

Posted 06 May 2007 - 07:22 PM

Do you think the Sky Car is good enough to be in GTA4?

user posted image

Whetstone
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#84

Posted 06 May 2007 - 07:46 PM

Micro lite, Hand glider, Helicopter , small planes ( dodo ), or a stuntplane kind of size, small private jet , Hot air balloons, remote control planes, sea helicopter, cable car

Algonquin King
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#85

Posted 07 May 2007 - 10:13 AM

A hang glider would be nice. smile.gif

btw,If rockstar wants realism the could keep the airplanes like hydra and 737's, just make the airplanes very hard to fly,if you manage to fly it then good for you.

Whetstone
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#86

Posted 07 May 2007 - 10:17 AM

Ther are still planes in real-life in New York , there are alot of them, Just put small planes in like dodo's, private jets

BrotherBeelou
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#87

Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:29 PM Edited by BrotherBeelou, 08 May 2007 - 07:33 PM.

the future of aviation...Is in pre production

the x-hawk



a continuation of user posted image
from mid-20th century military industrial complex R&D


geomy
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#88

Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:32 PM

Try it like:

CODE
[youtube]Cgg79rc6JAs[/youtube]


and you get:


BrotherBeelou
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#89

Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:34 PM

awesome thanks...***

BrotherBeelou
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#90

Posted 08 May 2007 - 07:44 PM

A 2000 concept of cityhawk

user posted image




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