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Choice and Consequence

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Ph3L1z14n0
  • Ph3L1z14n0

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#61

Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:27 AM Edited by Ph3L1z14n0, 10 May 2007 - 12:31 AM.

QUOTE (geomy @ May 9 2007, 23:36)
QUOTE (Ph3L1z14n0 @ May 9 2007, 18:19)
Great, you'll be a fantastic interior decorator!!!, because i don't know how the f*ck does that relate to you knowing anything about the forth dimenssion colgate.gif !!!

Sigh...

Just drop it, man.



EDIT:
After looking through some of the other threads and reading your comments, you have to be the most negative poster on this forum. Everything sucks, no ideas are good, blah blah.

Yo, mods - is there an "ignore this user" option?

I already told you i'm sorry man... bored.gif

gamefarter
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#62

Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:41 AM Edited by gamefarter, 10 May 2007 - 12:49 AM.

QUOTE (Ph3L1z14n0 @ May 9 2007, 02:25)
QUOTE (geomy @ Apr 27 2007, 03:17)
GTA IV = 4D [time could play a significant role]

Since when did people from THIS forum got science degrees confused.gif ?, stop talking out of your bunghole...

It was not a scientific statement that he made, so lay off the crack.

Anyway, that was a very good point with the whole space-time/4th dimmension sh*t. We saw how time played a significant role in the trailer as well with the day passing quickly; it was an element of the trailer.

I think that we should be able to get 100 percent, but there would only be one correct path to get it, and it would be awhile before anyone knew exactly how to get it. That would make it even more of a challenge.

good topic, hope no one else ruins it.

TonyResta
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#63

Posted 28 May 2007 - 04:10 PM

Hi, i made a topic on consequences and i might aswell post my thoughts here too:

Right, i have a vague idea of a way they could implement this feature, so hear me out.

Now, we have 2 scenarios, Guy 1 has only been caught and arrested 2 times whilst Guy 2 as been arrested 10 times in total. Now Guy 1 happens to murder an old lady coming back from the mall on her way home, and the same thing happens 2 miles away with Guy 2, now with this new feature, IMO, Guy 2 should recieve maby a higher wanted level than Guy 1 and should be chased in more numbers of police cars, all this because of his Crminal Record being higher than Guy 1.

So i dont know if ive explained myself well, but basically, everytime you get arrested you will gain a higher criminal record thus being more "watched" on by the police and also the police being stricter the higher it is.

I would be happy if it were to turn out like ths.

Bren_34
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#64

Posted 28 May 2007 - 04:26 PM

I think you might end up killing Roman in the end.


I'm not sure how to hide the spoiler part.

Slamman
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#65

Posted 28 May 2007 - 04:52 PM

Use the SPOILER brackets, like a URL link HTML code, IIRC
Anyway, people are starting a flame war here, not cool!

The whole notion of multiple endings is not a given for the game as I mentioned earlier (diff thread?) They skated the issue preferring to advocate the new AI instead in recent interviews

geomy
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#66

Posted 29 May 2007 - 06:10 PM Edited by geomy, 29 May 2007 - 06:41 PM.

Pandazoot has created a thread that points out some of the possibilities an open ended mission structure could have: How to rob a bank, and personally, I hope a majority of the missions are set up like this.

With the added feature of making calls on the cell phone, the choice factor gets a boost. Who are your friends? Who can you count on not to double cross you?

Making certain decisions in early missions should have repercussions in later missions, like 'that guy you chose to kill in the third mission...his son is back for revenge in the 78th mission, and he's pissed', things like that.

And again, failing a mission should be just as significant as passing one. None of this, fail and retry BS; you fail that's it. It always struck me weird that if I failed a mission, I would be presented with the same cutscene. Not at all naturalistic.


EDIT: I expect to see a red star rating in 3......2......

geomy
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#67

Posted 05 June 2007 - 01:56 PM

Ok, two things.
First this is not a double post, but (IMO) a valid bump. Second, I know I just quoted this in Rags to Rags, but I feel it is relevant to the discussion here. Find the original transcript here.
QUOTE
So, is this new GTA storyline still going to be one main story thread? After all, for some GTA critics, it was always something of a stumbling block in previous games that things were presented as being all about freedom, yet, if you want to actually play through the game, you pretty much have to follow one storyline that then funnels you down one path - there aren't multiple endings or anything like that.

We didn't expect any clear answer this early but Brown reveals: "What I can tell you - I can't be too precise - but what I can say is that, for the first time, we're really trying to blur the line between on-[mission] and off-mission. So storyline, and what you do outside, and how those two things influence each other. Obviously the storyline is more complex than before; you're going to be able to engage and embark on relationships with other people to an extent that you haven't been able to do before, to a point that hopefully it will evoke emotion within the person playing the game as well. It's something we think is untrodden ground really, especially in videogames, and it's something we're very keen to explore. So you'll be seeing a lot more about that. But in terms of threads and multiple endings I can't really give specifics or say whether that's going to happen." But the storyline in this one is different; it's a lot more about survival than battling.

Seems that with the blurred lines between freeroaming and story-mode, our decisions and actions outside missions may well have an effect on the storyline part of the game. How deep will the line blur? Gotta wait for more info... angry.gif

SKaM
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#68

Posted 25 July 2007 - 04:53 AM

QUOTE (MrHeint @ Apr 17 2007, 18:19)

-Calling girlfriend?- Rockstar had to get the memo that girlfriends in SA were very annoying. So can you possibly think they would do the same concept? Or can you meet random females in bars, clubs, streets, shopping, ect... Then if you like the female character, pedestrian, you can try to hit on her. Possibly this entails the two girls, four hot tubs, 15 sports cars fantasy we all have. Maybe R* will allow girls living in safe houses, and when we don't like them anymore, we can simply replace them. Or will they make gamers do stupid crap like in SA?



icon13.gif They did something like that in the game Scarface: The World is Yours. You would go out and meet women in a club or something along thoughts lines, and you talked to them until they deiced to move to you place. Then said woman would stand outside the door of your office in you manison. You could then have one-sided conversations that ended in Tony Montana insulting said female and then them getting piss at you. On top of that you could have six women in you house at once making you living room a virtual herum. GTA should not do this as this systeme of relationship building really, really sucks. icon13.gif

geomy
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#69

Posted 25 July 2007 - 06:39 PM

The latest Kikizo preview had a paragraph that really caught my eye, and made me happy:
QUOTE
On the PS2, the overriding theme in GTA was to exploit the technology through freedom, but what Rockstar says it's adding now is "immediacy and intimacy" with that freedom; it's not simply about making things bigger and broader, it's adding a significant level of depth, diversity, and detail. "The game is now about the experience as a whole, it's not just a features list anymore, and everything in GTA IV is done to a very thoughtful design, for a specific purpose." The experience when you play, Rockstar told us, is all about choice and consequence, and the fact that everything you do has weight to it - "so whatever choice you make will have a consequence to that particular action - that is something we're trying to highlight with the game."

"All about choice and consequence." Seems like I was on the right track, eh? How deep these consequences go and how the choices we make will affect us in later parts of the game remains to be seen, but this paragraph conjures up all kinds of possibilities. And that makes me happy.

Supreme.
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#70

Posted 08 January 2008 - 10:39 PM

Just bumping this gem, right quick.

QUOTE (geomy @ Jul 25 2007, 18:39)
"All about choice and consequence." Seems like I was on the right track, eh? How deep these consequences go and how the choices we make will affect us in later parts of the game remains to be seen, but this paragraph conjures up all kinds of possibilities. And that makes me happy.


I have mixed thoughts and feelings about this. There needs to be an overall structure to it, obviously, but the extent of that structure's apparent distortion and intricacy is very questionable.

Mission failure / redo, quickly solves the simple death of an important person. However, I doubt they'd take it as far as having all characters killable in the first place.

I'm just echoing here, but I think they'd set-up certain specific points in the storyline where there are several possible outcomes; during big missions no doubt. After which, the story continues but with changes.

The branching and scripting of everything only goes so far, but they could do some great (limited) stuff with it all. I sure hope R* are serious and very thorough if they go this route.

gamefarter
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#71

Posted 09 January 2008 - 01:33 AM

One preview said that we could kill Little Jacob and that we would then have to buy guns from less-trustworthy sources in dark basements and such. So, I would not be too surprised if we could kill everyone in the game, and just deal with the consequence of messing up contacts. This would give us an opportunity to be a real loaner and basically ruin the story-line, but since this is a pony farm game, we could still play, so I don't see why not.

fishermanGTA
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#72

Posted 09 January 2008 - 01:51 AM

QUOTE (purpboy @ Apr 17 2007, 23:37)
it could be good and it could be bad.. i would hate for one decision i make to negtively effect something i could want later.. but i will definately be stealing me a bmw 745 type car.. whether or not that makes my path through IV good or bad.. ha .. goood topic

But thats the beauty of it. You don't always get the ideal outcome.
Thats all the fun right there, replay value would be immense!

Good topic, good post.
It kind of depressed me looking at the original post date.
We knew so little back then...

xygtaxy
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#73

Posted 09 January 2008 - 01:58 AM

i thought this was sumthin new until i saw the date it was made....arg at least i know sumthin new haha

geomy
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#74

Posted 31 March 2008 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Supreme. @ Jan 8 2008, 16:39)
The branching and scripting of everything only goes so far, but they could do some great (limited) stuff with it all. I sure hope R* are serious and very thorough if they go this route.

Looks as though the branching is one of R*'s main motives for updating the series:

QUOTE (Dan Houser @ IGN)
The fundamental other change, it's difficult to talk about this because people get very confused about what we're saying and to think it's multi-branching... There are plenty of sections of the story when you manipulate outcomes and have choice over the outcome as the player, some of which fundamentally change the story, but it's not like there's 10,000 different options because, again, that wouldn't make sense for the character, where he is in the world because he's fundamentally being pushed around by more powerful people. But you have plenty of good points where it makes sense logically, in terms of the choice you're given and narratively, you get to make choices and that's kind of a fun twist on a GTA game.

- - -


We wanted choices in all kinds of ways to be part of the game. In some ways, without, again, wanting to criticize games that we loved making at the time and put a $#!@load of effort in -- we spent a lot of time trying to massively overhaul what we've done in the past -- the feeling was that maybe by San Andreas that some of the missions got too linear. So one thing we wanted to do was put a lot of choice in how you did that mission. There are multiple ways of doing a mission, and then at the end of them, some of them, you have a choice, "what do you do or do you not here?" And then there are ramifications from those choices. [We're] trying to meet halfway between, trying to make the gap between the story and the non-story that always felt very defined in previous games. You're either doing a mission or you weren't, and we tried to make the distance between those a little bit closer. So, I saw this guy in a mission -- I don't want to give away too many story spoilers. If stories are going to matter in games, then not talking about them before you've played the game is quite important, but as far as trying to talk about it theoretically. There are missions where you go and you have the cutscene and there's a small character that's out of it... you can bump into later walking around the world, and talk to him then or not. And if you don't then maybe there are ramifications of doing that coming into the story.

It's trying to do a lot of little touches that are quite subtle that the player would only realize if they played through the game, but rather than it feeling like in the old game it was very much like, "well I'm doing a story, or I'm doing this or I'm doing that." [Now] it's all kind of, "you're playing as Niko in this world and here's some things you've got to do for these people you don't like, here's some other people you don't like, here's someone you just met who's a kind of bleeding heart, needs your help on the street, totally different type of character. Well go and help them." We're trying to use the nature of a game, which is wandering around this virtual space, as best we could to tell stories in a slightly different way.
Source: IGN

The natural approach to missions is a welcome change. It did feel like San Andreas was a bit too linear at times, especially during the missions. I have no problems with Rockstar's reinvention of free-roam. In fact, it's comforting to know that the franchise that coined the term that defined a genre has decided that the previous idea was too confining.

The re-playability should be top notch with so much freedom, choice and variety. The problem then becomes...Single Player or Multiplayer...a discussion for another time and place.




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