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Choice and Consequence

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southwaleswarriors112
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#31

Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:14 PM

lol more freedom like umm..... blow off half of liberty lol

GTA IV X
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#32

Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:24 PM

This is an idea of how an open ended game like GTA could work.

Im guessing at the start it would use little things like say that guy (BAFOON) that apparently has the 4 girls in a hottub lol, forogt his name...

*AHEM* well that guy asked ya to help him out cuz he's in trouble, and you go to kill the guys hassling him, but later on when your high up in some gang chain, you realize your working for the same gang that was sent to kill your mate...

THAT would be funny lol, and if you did kill them then its like no problem and you continue, or if you didnt they send you on a mission whcih is a death trap or like take you to a backaley or somimt lol...

Just a quick idea of what kindof stuff could change... THIS COULD ALSO CHANGE THE ENVIRONMENT, like say certain crimes you do could make liek a little blocked off alleyway with EVIDENCE TAPE all around it lol! until that STRAND of missions is done!

Coral_City
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#33

Posted 25 April 2007 - 10:40 PM

FYI:

GTAIII:
If you complete "Waka-gashira Wipeout" before completing Kenji Kasen's missions, you would lose him as a boss and lose out on 100%.

The idea is very plausible, but will Rockstar go that indepth? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Seriously though, don't intake too much from mag' previews as they will only drive your hopes up and make you come crashing down!

soleil
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#34

Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:19 PM

I got an idea for a plot changing decision: You meet several gang/mob related people early on in the game. Some of them are enemies of each other and so you have to pick and choose who to align yourself with. Then halfway through the plot, you find that the people you aligned yourself with all got suspicious of you and betray you, similiar to GTA III when you had to kill Salvatore (except you might not get to kill the boss in IV). But this time, it means you pick which people you have to be with for half the plot, but the second half of the plot you are against them.

Being with a certain boss/gang in the first half would be different than being with them in the second half, so the plot would be completely different in the end than the guy who chose different.

medz
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#35

Posted 26 April 2007 - 03:44 AM

To the OP, I think a lot of the points and predictions you made make a lot a sense. Almost to the point I thought I was reading spoilers. biggrin.gif

I'm definitely excited about a new take on the missions and how we progress through the story. I think when a lot of people look at GTAIV, they will notice this as one of the main improvements to the franchise. Im sure we'll know more soon about this particular aspect of the gameplay but if theres a possibility of choosing your own adventure or alternate endings, color me excited!

j-dogg24
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#36

Posted 26 April 2007 - 04:30 AM

remember in the game informer article houser said that they wanted to keep it ass close to reality as possible so they reached out to former nypd cops and found that being a thug gangsta or whatever you want to call it is alot harder these days its not like you can come in small and become the boss now and they said the main story line from rockstar wont be a rags to richest or a rags to rags story so i think thats why they are putting the emphasis on a open ended story so you can choose your path. like if your a low level person and you attemp to kill the boss of your gang to take over it they will assasinate you or if you have worked your way up and have enough respect then they will help you take over the gange or what ever you are in

ethrion
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#37

Posted 26 April 2007 - 04:36 AM

QUOTE (j-dogg24 @ Apr 26 2007, 12:30)
...that they wanted to keep it ass close to reality as possible so they reached...

I always make sure to keep my ass close! biggrin.gif Sorry I couldnt resist.

Great thread! I like the idea of multiple paths to take and possibly different/no endings. Really would make the experience different for everyone. No more "have you done this bit yet?" when talking with your friends.

p.s. Do you head east? Turn to page 188
Do you go through the door? Turn to page 2
Go back the way you came? Turn to page 58

tounge2.gif

duurg
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#38

Posted 26 April 2007 - 04:52 AM

'Could the final shootout in one scenario be against a character who is your closest friend in another scenario? Theoretically, it could work.'

Greatest quote ever.

As amazing as this could be, EVERY single game that comes to mind that promotes those choices really didn't do it well. Take the KOTOR series for example. They were so high on the 'play as a good guy or bad guy' theme. But it really wasn't amazing.. Just throw in a bunch of random happenings, let the player either be good or bad, and it'll show. It's still the same story until the ending..

The saddest thing is I think video games don't strive to be so close to reality.. They strive to mimic reality. And there's a large difference. Trying to be real is a lot different than just trying to make something <i>feel</i> or look real. I think GTA IV will be a large step in the right direction, but once it's been out and we played it a while, I think there will still be MUCH room for improvement. The butterfly effect was cool to bring up.. But imagine how many alternate endings (Hell, how many alternate MISSIONS) there'd have to be to really support something like that. Games with alternate endings are one thing. But most of the stuff the original poster touched on is entirely different. I'd love to see it, and someday maybe we will (let a boat run into a dock and destroy it, or get in and move it away. Every action can change the world, your relationships, missions, etc.) but wishing for something as huge as this for GTA IV I think is a bit early. They will go in the right direction, I just think there will be a LOT more left to the imagination for possibly the next game. confused.gif

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#39

Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:25 PM

some of us {i know i do} at the forums only have one aim while playing gta........to achieve the holy grail of gaming......gaining the 100% mark in as many gta's as possible.....how can it be achieved if there are multiple plotlines which, depending on your choice, you might not play........

Mister V
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#40

Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:34 PM

QUOTE (duurg @ Apr 26 2007, 04:52)
As amazing as this could be, EVERY single game that comes to mind that promotes those choices really didn't do it well. Take the KOTOR series for example. They were so high on the 'play as a good guy or bad guy' theme. But it really wasn't amazing.. Just throw in a bunch of random happenings, let the player either be good or bad, and it'll show. It's still the same story until the ending..

Yes, but KOTOR's options are better than no options at all.

To mardybum: I think you're in the minority, I mean, who cares about 100% confused.gif

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#41

Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:55 PM

i'll take the f*cking blue pill

This new story line idea is a bit too much like True Crime for my likes but Rockstar might be able to make it work with the next gens. I think that it will be just chosing where your loyality lies like with which gangs or which people untill they screw us over and put a hit on us mad.gif

geomy
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#42

Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:11 PM

QUOTE (medz @ Apr 25 2007, 22:44)
To the OP, I think a lot of the points and predictions you made make a lot a sense. Almost to the point I thought I was reading spoilers.  biggrin.gif

Hmm, I was only drafting my own theories from what Houser said in his interview with GI. But if they came across as spoilers (let's hope sly.gif ) then...sorry?

QUOTE (duurg @ Apr 25 2007, 23:52)
'Could the final shootout in one scenario be against a character who is your closest friend in another scenario? Theoretically, it could work.'

Greatest quote ever.

As amazing as this could be, EVERY single game that comes to mind that promotes those choices really didn't do it well. Take the KOTOR series for example. They were so high on the 'play as a good guy or bad guy' theme. But it really wasn't amazing.. Just throw in a bunch of random happenings, let the player either be good or bad, and it'll show. It's still the same story until the ending..

The only fault with this reasoning is that Rockstar was not involved with any of those games. Also, KOTOR was developed for XBOX in 2003, no to mention it won about 5 different Game of the Year titles from various publications. Like Mister V said:
QUOTE (Mister V @ Apr 26 2007, 09:34)
Yes, but KOTOR's options are better than no options at all.


QUOTE (mardybum @ Apr 26 2007, 09:25)
some of us {i know i do} at the forums only have one aim while playing gta........to achieve the holy grail of gaming......gaining the 100% mark in as many gta's as possible.....how can it be achieved if there are multiple plotlines which, depending on your choice, you might not play........

Houser has already said, this isn't a rags-to-riches story; where 100% signifies you have completed everything, and are the king of the city (state). "You are just one fish in a big pond with other fish. New York motivation isn't just about turning up here and becoming the king. That's an impossible goal." 100% may be an impossible goal as well.

White Flight
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#43

Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:35 PM

What if after you've completed the game, you can choose "new game" and you'll start out in the same circumstances as when you finished it? The people that died, is still dead... Or that may be a terrible idea, I dunno tounge.gif

If not, choosing "new game" will be like a time machine, lol tounge.gif

geomy
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#44

Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:05 PM

I just had a crazy idea...pretty far fetched, but work with me. The other "fish" are completing the same stories, only they made different decisions = they finish in a different place as Niko. Think of the other fish as all possibilities of story branches happening at once, but the only one shown is the one you choose. We might run into a few or "compete" for mission success or territory or women...




Yeah, maybe not.

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#45

Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:40 PM

QUOTE (geomy @ Apr 26 2007, 22:05)
I just had a crazy idea...pretty far fetched, but work with me. The other "fish" are completing the same stories, only they made different decisions = they finish in a different place as Niko. Think of the other fish as all possibilities of story branches happening at once, but the only one shown is the one you choose. We might run into a few or "compete" for mission success or territory or women...

What, you mean like some kind of simulation of onlinegaming where the other "fish" is semingly other players? Or am I getting it wrong? That would be cool, but sounds to wicked to be possible.

I donīt know if I like the concept with a thousand branches, makes one round of the game shorter and then you have to start all over to find different ways in the story. The idea is good to some extent but I hope itīs limited to minor details thats just funny curiosities.
I mean, GTA is about roaming around, in free style. If you have to think about your characters development too much.. what if a friend of yours came by, eager too explore your badass GTA4, and you would have too scream all sorts of instructions all the time, so he doesnīt f*ck up your "branch".

..but then again, if they do it right ( wich they allways do, especially with SA wich is the best game ever, by the way. All you people who donīt like the girlfriends can just dump them in the river like any normal CJ would), if they do it right, I know Iīll love it, and itīs probably gonna revolutionize gaming as we know it.

geomy
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#46

Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:50 PM Edited by geomy, 26 April 2007 - 10:50 PM.

QUOTE (triphide @ Apr 26 2007, 15:40)
QUOTE (geomy @ Apr 26 2007, 22:05)
I just had a crazy idea...pretty far fetched, but work with me. The other "fish" are completing the same stories, only they made different decisions = they finish in a different place as Niko.  Think of the other fish as all possibilities of story branches happening at once, but the only one shown is the one you choose. We might run into a few or "compete" for mission success or territory or women...

What, you mean like some kind of simulation of onlinegaming where the other "fish" is semingly other players? Or am I getting it wrong? That would be cool, but sounds to wicked to be possible.

Yeah, they are like parallel universes where they made a left turn when you made a right turn sort of thing. For a storyline like the choose your own adventure to work, all the possibilities will have to have been written/recorded. This means there will be a finite amount of possibilities, but hopefully enough to make it still feel like a new game after 2 or 3 completions. Since these finite possibilities are already written, it would be like a telephone tree or flow chart. Everything's already there, just one path is highlighted...every once in a while, the paths will cross.

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#47

Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:15 PM

knights of the old republic 2 was awesome never played the first but in 2 the ending was pretty much the same only you either did it good or evil you

dead rising tho it has i think 5 endings but i dont think i ever made any choices

true crime streets of la had multiply endings but they where pretty much the same 3 endings where you survired 3 endings where you die also in that game there wasnt much choice apart from choosing not to try a failed mission again to me that wasnt a choice i like completing missions

iv never played a game that choice has been a big part of

what i want from gta 4 is

to be able to choice my enemys and allies
or like if i get a mission where im told to kill someone and he begs me not to kill him and he will give me alot of money if i dont say i dont kill him take the money later down the line that guy could kill me or something

elder scrolls iv had a small choice element to it like your sent to kill a guy for being vampire and he tells you that its your boss whos the vampire
you get the choice whether to beleave him and not kill him or you can kill him
and another mission in it i remember you have to get info out of someone you can either sweat talk him or beat it out of him

i would like to see stuff like that in gta 4

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#48

Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:02 PM

I think the author of the post has the right idea with this. There was also a mention of possibly adding the dimension of time to the game, where certain missions will always happen and how you approach differs based on how you have progressed as a char up to that point. I think if R* went away from the current mission structure of the game, it would be a really good way to revolutionize this gaming genre. Don't think of the game as just picking who your enemies are or climbing the ladder of a gang.

Niko says he has a criminal past and that "maybe things here will be different". Well, who's to say you have to progress your character through only criminal activities? Maybe you start out that way, or there are criminal undertones, but you can eventually try and break the criminal mode and go legit? Houser stated in the GI article that you also learn later in the story about Niko's having been in trouble in the past and it following him to LC. This ties into the story unfolding based on some form of "time passage". Doesn't have to be calendar time, lots of possible metrics for this. Then you can approach these different parts of the story differently depending on how you have played the game thus far.

I am thinking R* is going to change the entire mission structure and game flow, and for the better. I welcome more realism and more choice. I like the concept of me being in charge of choosing my next mission/destiny and not just by picking a scripted mission labeled on the map which I always have to do every time I start the game over. I don't think this is just going to be a gimmick, this is going to be one of the things that R* uses to push this game and genre into "next-gen".

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#49

Posted 26 April 2007 - 11:40 PM

QUOTE (WeeSmallHours @ Apr 26 2007, 22:02)
I think the author of the post has the right idea with this. There was also a mention of possibly adding the dimension of time to the game, where certain missions will always happen and how you approach differs based on how you have progressed as a char up to that point. I think if R* went away from the current mission structure of the game, it would be a really good way to revolutionize this gaming genre. Don't think of the game as just picking who your enemies are or climbing the ladder of a gang.

Niko says he has a criminal past and that "maybe things here will be different". Well, who's to say you have to progress your character through only criminal activities? Maybe you start out that way, or there are criminal undertones, but you can eventually try and break the criminal mode and go legit? Houser stated in the GI article that you also learn later in the story about Niko's having been in trouble in the past and it following him to LC. This ties into the story unfolding based on some form of "time passage". Doesn't have to be calendar time, lots of possible metrics for this. Then you can approach these different parts of the story differently depending on how you have played the game thus far.

I am thinking R* is going to change the entire mission structure and game flow, and for the better. I welcome more realism and more choice. I like the concept of me being in charge of choosing my next mission/destiny and not just by picking a scripted mission labeled on the map which I always have to do every time I start the game over. I don't think this is just going to be a gimmick, this is going to be one of the things that R* uses to push this game and genre into "next-gen".

Screw going legit, it's a crime simulator, next thing this topic will turn into a realism debate!!!!!

ethrion
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#50

Posted 27 April 2007 - 02:35 AM

100% would still be achievable even with multiple endings. Each storyline would be the same number of missions in length (just different depending on the path you chose) and therefore everyone would end with the same percentage of completion after finishing the story.

Then there would be all the hidden packages, oysters, horseshoes, nachos, sombreros and dildos to find...

geomy
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#51

Posted 27 April 2007 - 03:17 AM

QUOTE (WeeSmallHours @ Apr 26 2007, 17:02)
I think the author of the post has the right idea with this. There was also a mention of possibly adding the dimension of time to the game, where certain missions will always happen and how you approach differs based on how you have progressed as a char up to that point. I think if R* went away from the current mission structure of the game, it would be a really good way to revolutionize this gaming genre. Don't think of the game as just picking who your enemies are or climbing the ladder of a gang.

The way Houser talks about the step from III to IV being similar to the step from 2 to III, I think time is a very likely candidate. Think about it this way:

GTA2 = 2D [flat, but fun]
GTA III = 3D [three times the fun]
GTA IV = 4D [time could play a significant role]

Following this trend, they can only make it to the tenth dimension, but that's another topic altogether.

QUOTE (WeeSmallHours @ Apr 26 2007, 17:02)
I am thinking R* is going to change the entire mission structure and game flow, and for the better. I welcome more realism and more choice. I like the concept of me being in charge of choosing my next mission/destiny and not just by picking a scripted mission labeled on the map which I always have to do every time I start the game over. I don't think this is just going to be a gimmick, this is going to be one of the things that R* uses to push this game and genre into "next-gen".

I still expect the missions to feel the same, but the way we go about getting them and completing "mission strands" will change. I like the idea that failing a mission will mean it's gone for good (unless you reset), and will affect your standing with whoever gave it to you.


QUOTE (ethrion @ Apr 26 2007, 21:35)
100% would still be achievable even with multiple endings. Each storyline would be the same number of missions in length (just different depending on the path you chose) and therefore everyone would end with the same percentage of completion after finishing the story.

Then there would be all the hidden packages, oysters, horseshoes, nachos, sombreros and dildos to find...

I think you could be right, or maybe there are different versions of 100%...Once you achieve 100, your number might change from white to a different color, and there will be as many different colored 100s as there are different endings...
Walkthroughs would actually read like a choose your own adventure book: "To follow Red100, goto section 9.1; to follow Blue100, goto section 9.6; to follow Yellow100, goto section 9.7"

geomy
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#52

Posted 08 May 2007 - 08:58 AM

After the closing of another thread (Guesstimate) focusing on too much at once, I'm bumping the mainaspects presented there for two reasons: One, I think they are important (if they weren't, they wouldn't keep getting reposted), and two, to keep more from being opened. Here's my reply, broken for relevance.

QUOTE
-Storyline: My thoughts on the choice aspects of the storyline can be found [here], but I'll reiterate the parts I feel strongest about. I believe, like you said, there will still be a main goal, but I think R* is going further than any game which has the option to "choose your destiny." R* is offering a next-gen experience, so why expect last-gen features. I may be setting up for a bit of a disappointment, but I expect branching storylines, missions dependent on one another, failing a mission will be just as significant as passing a mission, and choices made now will mean consequences down the line.

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#53

Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:25 AM

QUOTE (geomy @ Apr 27 2007, 03:17)
GTA IV = 4D [time could play a significant role]

Since when did people from THIS forum got science degrees confused.gif ?, stop talking out of your bunghole...

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#54

Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:41 AM

QUOTE (gtafanactic @ Apr 26 2007, 21:15)
knights of the old republic 2 was awesome never played the first but in 2 the ending was pretty much the same only you either did it good or evil you

dead rising tho it has i think 5 endings but i dont think i ever made any choices

true crime streets of la had multiply endings but they where pretty much the same 3 endings where you survired 3 endings where you die also in that game there wasnt much choice apart from choosing not to try a failed mission again to me that wasnt a choice i like completing missions

iv never played a game that choice has been a big part of

what i want from gta 4 is

to be able to choice my enemys and allies
or like if i get a mission where im told to kill someone and he begs me not to kill him and he will give me alot of money if i dont say i dont kill him take the money later down the line that guy could kill me or something

elder scrolls iv had a small choice element to it like your sent to kill a guy for being vampire and he tells you that its your boss whos the vampire
you get the choice whether to beleave him and not kill him or you can kill him
and another mission in it i remember you have to get info out of someone you can either sweat talk him or beat it out of him

i would like to see stuff like that in gta 4

hehe try and play Fable!! you're gonna love it, besides, GTAIV could learn about some features about that game sigh.gif wink.gif colgate.gif

Rick88
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#55

Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:48 AM

I'm loving this. R* has already made a clear point that this time around GTA IV is going to give us more freedom with the storyline than we ever had before.

This would be my idea of it and I think most of you have though of it before I have tounge.gif :

Say you're playing this mission, where you have to kill and assasinate, oh lets say a Mob boss. But instead of killing him, you can have say 2 choices. The first one would be obviously killing him. The second would be to choose to side with him. This may sound simple, but now lets think about the outcome. Say you decide to do choice #1. The outcome would obviously be one of two, either the whole Mafia goes against you, or that whole Mafia gang disappears of the game. Choice #2, The outcome of this choice, would gain you respect of the Mafia, and could ultimately end up in you maybe becoming the Don or the Don's right hand man.

Just an idea on how it can work out. Hopefully GTA IV could be creative with this idea as other games have in the past cool.gif

geomy
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#56

Posted 09 May 2007 - 03:07 AM Edited by geomy, 09 May 2007 - 03:20 AM.

QUOTE (Ph3L1z14n0 @ May 8 2007, 21:25)
QUOTE (geomy @ Apr 27 2007, 03:17)
GTA IV = 4D [time could play a significant role]

Since when did people from THIS forum got science degrees confused.gif ?, stop talking out of your bunghole...

Actually, I have an Environmental Design Degree and am working on my Masters of Architecture with a focus in Art and Architectural History. If you don't have anything constructive to add, please don't post. With a comment like that, you're only furthering the stereotype that the only people to post here are kids and idiots with bad grammar:

QUOTE (Ph3L1z14n0 @ May 8 2007, 21:25)

Since when did people from THIS forum got get science degrees?

duurg
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#57

Posted 09 May 2007 - 05:53 AM

Personally I thought it'd be awesome if you played as the set character, but when you meet up with a new character, you'd unlock his history.. And then at the main screen you could select to play through his story, which would basically encompass what happened to him before he ran into your main character.. So basically you are writing these characters' own history.. But it'd all be totally optional. So use your time and mess around, play as some of the other characters in missions and all, or screw it and forget them all... It's more of an RPG type game element though.. I can envision a good RPG using something like this more than a GTA style game.

And the chances of anybody doing something like that even in the near future? I'd say next to none.. Imagine all the stuff you'd have to put into a game... Basically play as character 1, run into character 2, bam. Go play as character 2, from his start in life, or his start in the business up until the point where you met him with character 1... Then go back to that point where the two meet, again playing as character 1... The programmers would have to program all the possibilities of the stuff you chose character 2 to do, his decision making and allegiances and all, prior to meeting character 1... Make sense to anyone? I mean doing this for a ton of the characters, not just one... Would be so crazy, and such a fun feature to mess around with, if dont right. However I think it'd take a lot and I doubt it'd be much of a 'Oh we need that feature in our game!' type of thing. I doubt anybody would jump at the chance to do something like this.

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#58

Posted 09 May 2007 - 09:31 AM

By what Rockstar has said about the freedom ect. too me it sounds like we may be able too say goodbye to having too do the same mission over and over again after failing it. Maybe after failing a mission the next mission will be trying to clean up what you have done. Also it sounds like too me there will not be any particular ending too a mission. Like in San Andreas everyone would have the same experience for that mission but now everyone will have a different experience and different outcomes will occur from that mission.

Ph3L1z14n0
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#59

Posted 09 May 2007 - 11:19 PM

QUOTE (geomy @ May 9 2007, 03:07)
Actually, I have an Environmental Design Degree and am working on my Masters of Architecture with a focus in Art and Architectural History

Great, you'll be a fantastic interior decorator!!!, because i don't know how the f*ck does that relate to you knowing anything about the forth dimenssion colgate.gif !!!

the choices are supposedly about who you hang out with, i have no idea how this works, but it could make some different missions pop out perhaps???

geomy
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#60

Posted 09 May 2007 - 11:36 PM Edited by geomy, 10 May 2007 - 12:32 AM.

QUOTE (Ph3L1z14n0 @ May 9 2007, 18:19)
Great, you'll be a fantastic interior decorator!!!, because i don't know how the f*ck does that relate to you knowing anything about the forth dimenssion colgate.gif !!!

Sigh...

Just drop it, man.




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