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BUGS, GLITCHES, and INCOMPLETES

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Ben
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#181

Posted 26 May 2007 - 11:08 PM Edited by Ben, 26 May 2007 - 11:20 PM.

QUOTE (SteaVor @ May 27 2007, 03:54)
QUOTE (ModelingMan @ May 26 2007, 19:39)
Does the car handling seem any different to you?

Are there vehicles with big, noticeable differences between III and LC? I thought it took several years to modify the handling.cfg of VC to resemble III's behaviour as best as possible! tounge.gif
I can say however that I - before I knew what the files were supposed to do - noticed that driving the Kuruma off the bridge felt slightly different. Why didn't you include a debug message. monocle.gif (just kidding)
Maybe I can construct a test course that proves the difference...

You might like to check out Cerbera's website for some more detailed handling information then.

I remember I talked briefly with Demarest about it some time ago - I'll have a look through my chat logs and see if I can find it. But basically, he gave an example of one difference by saying that if you were to drive from two points A and B in GTA3, it would take longer to do than if you did the exact same thing in LC. Don't mistake that for the vehicles having a higher speed though, because I'm pretty sure that's not the case - on the same token, I'm also not sure exactly what it is either.

As for taking several years, no, that's not the case at all. Most of the values are the same (except for the extra column in LC's handling.cfg) - the values that are different were changed by me and took only a couple of days of testing wink.gif.

@MM:
Just a question - if we use GTA3's handling.cfg, what happens to all the extra vehicles in LC? Those that aren't used obviously aren't too much of a problem, but what about helicopters and the skimmer?

And a question a few people are probably interested in - what about the Dodo? There's always been two differing views on it - many people (like me tounge.gif) are happy that it's easier to fly in LC, whereas others want it to be like it is in GTA3. What will your handling changes do with regards to it?

If there's a noticable difference in the handling and you think it's worthwhile to implement it, do you think that a solution might be to somehow make the game use GTA3's handling.cfg for certain vehicles, and LC's for others? I'm not sure how you'd do that though confused.gif.

This all sounds really good nonetheless - I can't wait for my holidays so I can have a chance to try out all these sexy new features wink.gif.

smile.gif

EDIT - I found a bit of the conversation, which I've summarised below:
Aside from covering the ground quicker (as I mentioned above), the other major difference is in the stability of cars. With the exception of the Patriot, GTA3 didn't really have a realistic suspension system (which was kinda good because a few vehicles flipped in LC upon hitting the curb - the Kuruma was a great example of that until I lowered it's vertical centre of gravity to make it more stable) - VC, on the other hand, supported independent suspension a lot more realistically.

Hope that helps in some way smile.gif.

ashketchum22
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#182

Posted 27 May 2007 - 08:38 AM Edited by Ben, 27 May 2007 - 08:52 AM.

QUOTE
btw another bug:
sometimes when i go to my hideout the garage door is half open and when i want to go into the garage the doors opening from the ground.


ok, i got another one im checking the missions for bugs and i got this one:
- mission: Kingdom come
- mission boss; king courtney
- bug: at the end of the mission when i let exploded the last car i got this bug:
user posted image

(look at the radar on the picture)
you have to destroy 3 cars in the mission, when i blew up the last car i passed the mission, but the radar gave a sign that i still must blew up the car tounge.gif turn.gif
its a funny bug but very strange also. wink.gif
greetings ash

EDIT by Ben - added the bug you PM'ed me here so everyone can see it wink.gif.

Ben
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#183

Posted 27 May 2007 - 08:54 AM

I saw the one you quoted - it's already on the list wink.gif. And it's better if you post any bugs you find here, rather than PM them to me. I'll add that Kingdom Come one to the checklist for you icon14.gif.

ashketchum22
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#184

Posted 27 May 2007 - 10:22 AM

i found 3 new bugs
- in the mission uzi rider the kill number stays inscreen when your killed
- no reward text when you found 10 hidden packages. i got 21 packages and i havent seen a reward text by any of the 2 time( 10, and 20 packages)
- a road glitch this time its not moddified well
user posted image
a point to look at for the next beta version wink.gif

Ben
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#185

Posted 27 May 2007 - 11:58 AM

Added to the checklist icon14.gif.

SteaVor
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#186

Posted 27 May 2007 - 01:21 PM

It's not necessary to add every LOD bug to the list (see 5-14/15 for more examples), because I'm sure that all of them (another, prominent example would be the black/yellow Callahan bridge UJ ramp) were introduced at a specific point in time. Older releases don't have any of the problems, I'm guesssing (and that's really just a wild guess) that it was around the time the 'wet roads' fix was introduced. I'm not saying it's connected, though.

ashketchum22
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#187

Posted 27 May 2007 - 02:18 PM Edited by ModelingMan, 27 May 2007 - 05:27 PM.

GOT A VERY IMPORTANT BUG
i am playin the mission waka-gashira wipe out from donald love and got this bug which need to be repaired very fast
i dunno if you know where phil cassidy's shop is in gta lcs, next to that building stands the AM building
heres a picture show of 7 pictures from the bulding:

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image
user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

and an wall bug in front of the entrance of the AM underground garage.
user posted image

and thats all i got for now

spaceeinstein
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#188

Posted 27 May 2007 - 03:00 PM

Can you compress those images? No need to make it so huge. I already fixed that bug. What version of LC do you have?

ashketchum22
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#189

Posted 27 May 2007 - 03:11 PM

QUOTE (spaceeinstein @ May 27 2007, 17:00)
Can you compress those images? No need to make it so huge. I already fixed that bug. What version of LC do you have?

beta 2v7

ModelingMan
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#190

Posted 27 May 2007 - 06:14 PM

QUOTE (ashketchum22 @ May 27 2007, 16:11)
QUOTE (spaceeinstein @ May 27 2007, 17:00)
Can you compress those images? No need to make it so huge. I already fixed that bug. What version of LC do you have?

beta 2v7

I don't think you are using v7 since I do not see any of these problems in the version I have installed.

I do however have this one (section marked in red has no collision):
user posted image

@ashketchum22: You should try not to post images which are 250KB, that takes a person on dial-up 30-60 seconds to download one image. Use a higher compression ratio, and shrink them down to at most 50KB.

ashketchum22
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#191

Posted 27 May 2007 - 06:42 PM

ive installed the newest version before i started playing
so i use beta 2 v7

ashketchum22
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#192

Posted 27 May 2007 - 06:45 PM

btw how must i compress the pictures??

SteaVor
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#193

Posted 27 May 2007 - 07:19 PM

@MM:
I've added collisions months ago, the update wasn't included in the package due to a simple oversight though. Ben added a link in the 'Download' topic, but removed it by now.
Here's my fix.

Ben
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#194

Posted 27 May 2007 - 11:17 PM

@ashketchum22 - Use the EDIT button instead of double posting. How long ago did you download v7test? I'll number each test release from now on to avoid the problem of people not using the latest version. But I do remember space fixing that bug.

@SteaVor - I removed it from the list because I included it the last time I updated the download package. It should be in there - let me know if it isn't though so I can add it next time wink.gif.

SteaVor
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#195

Posted 28 May 2007 - 07:49 AM Edited by SteaVor, 28 May 2007 - 09:40 AM.

You're right of course, I did a fresh install just to test this and it's definitely included in the latest package --> you aren't up-to-date, MM. biggrin.gif

5-23 has existed in every GTAIII version, I was about to fix it (it's nothing more than applying the correct texture) but never came around to do it.
I'm more concerned with the LOD problems right now.

@space:
Isn't the occasional disappearance of the AMco model caused by it's sheer size/complexity/position in a heavily built-up area?

ashketchum22
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#196

Posted 28 May 2007 - 07:52 AM

QUOTE (Ben @ May 28 2007, 01:17)
@ashketchum22 - Use the EDIT button instead of double posting. How long ago did you download v7test? I'll number each test release from now on to avoid the problem of people not using the latest version. But I do remember space fixing that bug.

not even two weeks ago.

Ben
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#197

Posted 28 May 2007 - 09:24 AM

Hmmm, well then you would have the latest version. I don't know what the deal is then - I do remember that bug being fixed. Perhaps it's as SteaVor suggested, in which case I'm not sure how we'll go about fixing it.

@SteaVor - Yeah, there's a few issues on the modelling/textures part that are pretty easy fixes. Just as long as they get done eventually wink.gif.

spaceeinstein
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#198

Posted 28 May 2007 - 03:00 PM Edited by spaceeinstein, 28 May 2007 - 03:05 PM.

@SteaVor, no... Someone touched the IDE entry for that building. That person tried to fixed the alpha problem in the AmCo building but messed up horribly. That person made the building into a breakable object. I fixed that error a long time ago.

Can someone tell me where can I find explanations on GTA3's LODs? GTA3's LODs are different from Vice City. It's very noticable in SSV.

SteaVor
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#199

Posted 28 May 2007 - 04:23 PM

The reason for the LODs showing up lies within the IDE/IPL files. For example, the file causing the LODs to appear at the Callahan Bridge UJ is industNW.ipl. Right at the top there are two entries that need to be deleted to make the low-res overlaps disappear.

comSE has an additional IDE and IPL entry (1532, LOD_roadKB22), but the object is placed inside the Callahan Bridge, i.e. it's not visible from anywhere as far as I can tell. This object has been added after Beta 5, but I don't know why.

SSV has more complex issues; I've noticed that there are objects renamed and some of them have been shifted + 5 in Z direction compared to the Beta 5/6 files. I'd deleted them and the LOD errors disappeared, but - since I was also messing with the renamed parts - I got a crash and had to start from scratch.

Ben
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#200

Posted 29 May 2007 - 04:52 AM

QUOTE (SteaVor @ May 29 2007, 02:23)
The reason for the LODs showing up lies within the IDE/IPL files. For example, the file causing the LODs to appear at the Callahan Bridge UJ is industNW.ipl. Right at the top there are two entries that need to be deleted to make the low-res overlaps disappear.

comSE has an additional IDE and IPL entry (1532, LOD_roadKB22), but the object is placed inside the Callahan Bridge, i.e. it's not visible from anywhere as far as I can tell. This object has been added after Beta 5, but I don't know why.

SSV has more complex issues; I've noticed that there are objects renamed and some of them have been shifted + 5 in Z direction compared to the Beta 5/6 files. I'd deleted them and the LOD errors disappeared, but - since I was also messing with the renamed parts - I got a crash and had to start from scratch.

The changes could have been a side-effect of Choofy's model fixes, which were implemented after v5 IIRC. Not that that really matters - all that matters is whether or not we can fix them. SteaVor, you ran into some problems, but can they be worked around (easily)?

@space - I'm not sure whether there is any published info about the LOD differences for GTA3 vs. VC. I'll ask a couple of people and see what I can find out for you.

smile.gif

SteaVor
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#201

Posted 29 May 2007 - 07:43 AM Edited by SteaVor, 29 May 2007 - 09:14 AM.

Only the three SSV ones (subroads, landNE, landSW) could be difficult to fix, there are major differences that have to be understood - unfortunately, there isn't a log that states why the change has been made. bored.gif
LOD_subroads96 got changed to LODay_tunent01 for example, with a z+10 shift and different values in the rotation section.

EDIT:
Someone has renamed some models (mostly on SSV), but didn't rename the LOD model - that means that they will always both be visible and overlap each other!
This means that it should be quite an easy fix, but we have to change the filenames inside the IMG. sad.gif

SteaVor
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#202

Posted 29 May 2007 - 02:54 PM Edited by SteaVor, 29 May 2007 - 02:58 PM.

How does the VC LOD system work? It was my understanding that the game would simply look for the same model name, just with 'LOD' in place of the first 3 chars of the DFF. Can the LOD name be specified within the DFF, if it isn't named after this convention? Otherwise, I'm afraid that most of LC doesn't use proper LODs:
user posted imageuser posted image
I've picked two random LODs and applied a Z +2 shift.
The Portland bus depot behaves correctly on the other hand; when seen from a great distance, the LOD is shown, and when you're near enough, the LOD is replaced by the normal model (i.e. the LOD disappears, unlike the 2 examples above, where both coexist because they both miss their counterpart and the game treats them as separate, unrelated objects). Reason being, that the bus depot follows the naming convention (busdepottar <-> LODdepottar, busdepot_cover <-> LODdepot_cover). Are we using old files or wasn't it converted properly. Most of Portland seems OK, so I'm assuming that the LC team began to rename the files properly, but left it unfinished. How far off am I with this wild speculation on my part? tounge.gif

*hopes that the reason is nothing but outdated files* nervous.gif

stef_92
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#203

Posted 29 May 2007 - 05:30 PM Edited by stef_92, 29 May 2007 - 06:42 PM.

I will report for one thing! The newest version is 2.7! So but unlike the others in this version there aren't almost any peds or traffic on the streets !!

spaceeinstein
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#204

Posted 29 May 2007 - 06:30 PM Edited by spaceeinstein, 29 May 2007 - 06:45 PM.

Who said someone renamed the files? The files are exactly the same. VC's LOD system works as you expected. It's just GTA3's LOD system that confuses me.

SteaVor
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#205

Posted 29 May 2007 - 06:38 PM Edited by SteaVor, 29 May 2007 - 06:47 PM.

The reason is that in GTA:LC the complex model isn't replacing the LOD model, but merely overlapping it to hide it. The files seem to show* that the team was aware of the differences in the LOD system, but just used the lazy solution (lower Z for LODs) at first (to get the map work done fast), before they started to do the necessary renaming to make the game recognize the LOD files as LODs.
The question is: do we leave everything as it is (and just manipulate the Z value of the objects that stand out currently) or do we rename the LODs properly (maybe not all of them, but mainly those that need fixing at the moment)?

@stef92:
delete vc_traffic.asi in the LC folder.


*maybe I just picked bad examples that accidentally supported the theory, but we'll still have to think about the best solution.

spaceeinstein
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#206

Posted 29 May 2007 - 06:49 PM Edited by spaceeinstein, 29 May 2007 - 06:53 PM.

I tried it once and it didn't work too well. Can you try to rename the LODs again? Show your progress, too.

Man I'm so tired. I'll gain more conscious later today.

SteaVor
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#207

Posted 29 May 2007 - 07:07 PM Edited by SteaVor, 29 May 2007 - 09:11 PM.

I'm now trying with the SSV tunnel exit road:
The model is 2758 sub_CrossRoads23, the LOD is currently called 2526 LOD_subroads81. I hope renaming it to LOD_CrossRoads23 in the IMG, IDE and IPL will do the trick. It shouldn't be referenced anywhere else.

stef_92
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#208

Posted 29 May 2007 - 07:30 PM

QUOTE (SteaVor @ May 29 2007, 18:45)
You really should consult a dictionary - look for 'patience' and try to apply it to your posting behaviour. I was often tempted to report you because of your inappropriate postings, so you better think twice before you post. The answer to your question is hidden in my previous post.

Sorry! I just have not read your whole post!

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#209

Posted 29 May 2007 - 09:13 PM

I've tried to make the game recognize LOD_CrossRoads23 as the LOD object for sub_CrossRoads23, but it doesn't work. It's renamed correctly everywhere (IMG, IDEs, IPL, COL), but they still both show up. confused.gif I must have overlooked something, but the naming is correct.

Ben
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#210

Posted 30 May 2007 - 06:15 AM

I PM'ed REspawn yesterday asking what he knew about LODs or if there was somewhere I could look or someone I could ask for more information about them. He said that he's done a huge amount of research on them from a number of different perspectives, from just modding them, to working them into a rendering engine for his G-Map tool as well as another GTA 3D project. So space, you can direct any questions you have to him via PM if you like. If you'd prefer to email him or use IM, PM me and I'll hook you up with his details (seeing as they're not listed in his profile). Hopefully he can help you guys figure out the problem smile.gif.




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