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[Official] Myriad's Air Infrastructure

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Mark
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#1

Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:12 PM

I hate to throw yet more thinking into the works of this project as all this gets in the way of major work, but I think it's about time, considering SA is now being used instead of VC, that some consideration was given to where the hell airports and airfields will be placed.

"Why not just stick it on it's own island?" You ask. I for one would find it very boring not being able to actually use the aircraft to go anywhere in particular but round and round, therefore I suggest they be split up about the place, not to mention actually integrated into already existing islands by means of possible modifications and/or extensions.

Therefore I've been doing some thinking into what can be done with the existing islands as they are. Here's the idea for airfield 1.

user posted image

Considering that illNorth is probably the most likely choice for an airport out of the well known islands (not considering GTi, though could be possible to add one there), yet is still consderably unfriendly to airports, I suggest just a small airfield on the scale of what was seen in the desert in GTA:SA. Therefore, as an airfield and not an airport, it can't really be jutting out into the ocean using large concrete supports, as this is not the style of your average general aviation airfield.

After measuring the size of SAs Desert runway, I found it to be 500units long by 50 wide. The size of the airfield in SA is plentiful, if a little iffy to land anything large at (not the idea, I hope that handling mods will stop the ability to land an airliner at a grass strip, as this will (personally) add a more challenging element to choosing where to fly other than "lets dump it here, I want my Hydra!"

I have chosen the west side of illRES because, to my knowledge, this area will be predominantly countryside, thus perfect for an airfield (no pissing off the residents)

The orange runway is probably the most viable option, except for the fact that the West coast of illRES will have to modified (to a natural level, not just concrete) to accomodate it. However it's advantages are a little more room for hangars around it, plus a flight path that's further away from the crater.

The red runway is the only way I have found that I can successfully fit the size of the runway onto land as it is without modification. However, as my memory serves me, it's a little hilly across here, so may need a little flattening, however it is considerably less work than the orange runway. The disadvantage with this one is that it is a little close to the hillside, which my make flying a circuit here a bit harder, especially right hand circuits when landing north or left when landing south.

The second airports idea is one I have not been able to think much about. My 1st thoughts are for GTi (attached to the small island? though this is to be a sports/stunt park) or attached to Port Orchid (but as I have not seen this island I cannot plan much at all).

Depends really on what people want to do with the aircraft, have them all rather small, or rather large.

Anyway, input is the name of the game, lets have some ideas to get the ball rolling!

steve-m
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#2

Posted 20 November 2006 - 11:33 PM

The red one doesn't look bad, imho. But it'd have to be a small, private, non-solid airfield, hidden inbetween trees/forest. Anything bigger wouldn't fit there, since the infrastructure (and general landscape) isn't enough for a big commercial airport. Maybe in the bay South of that orange line land could be extended a bit (artificially?) for a bigger airport, and there'd be a four-lane freeway next to it.

mickarrow
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#3

Posted 20 November 2006 - 11:42 PM

I was planning to make a little airstrip in the area you see in my sig. Nothing big.

Mark
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#4

Posted 21 November 2006 - 12:45 AM

@mick: Ah right cool, then Ideally a large airport is probably best.

@steve: That's an idea, just Necrosis gets dangerously close, and I dunno if there's any tall buildings in the flightpath. Mind you, a Hong-Kong esque approach could be fun smile.gif

Cerbera has just sent me his idea, seems to not be a bad idea, very long runway, similar area to Steve's idea, runs NNE-SSW, a lil close to the freeway, but meh, can always extend a little west.

mickarrow
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#5

Posted 21 November 2006 - 12:54 AM

Nah, you could make an airstrip if you want. I just mentioned so you'd know. It's not something to take into consideration as it was meant to be a tiny airstrip, not something major. Modelling it is still very in its early days, for all I know it could turn out as just a helipad. smile.gif
So don't let this stand in the way of any planning, please continue....

BenMillard
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#6

Posted 21 November 2006 - 01:10 AM Edited by Cerbera, 21 November 2006 - 01:21 AM.

Mick, could you draw on that where the runway would go? There's no space for one as far as I can tell. It was intended for wealthy housing, perhaps something like the little suburb North of Las Venturas. But that wasn't set in stone. smile.gif

If we agree it's OK to change land, maybe we could combine these ideas? By rerouting the countryside road we could have enough space to run a decent, commercial-length runway. And there could still be a lot of countryside around the West and North of the crater.

Very rough yellow and green runways, each about 1km long by my estimation:
user posted image

Could be something like Escobar International Airport from GTAVC? The buildings on the North of Necrosis might decide whether the yellow runway is possible. Since the runways are going from coast to coast, that whole area would be flattened. This might require an embankment to "step" it down from the freeway and countryside road.

A small airfield somewhere would be nice as well as this, if it goes ahead.

Mark
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#7

Posted 21 November 2006 - 01:23 AM

Bit radical, but shorten the yellow one and make em join? 2 runways!

mickarrow
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#8

Posted 21 November 2006 - 01:32 PM

user posted image

If that airstrip comes through, it would be roughly at the place I put the blue line.
It's not intended for freight planes or big passengers planes. Idd, nothing is set in stone. If it turns out to be conflicting with the environment, I'll remove it.

I don't remember what that area was originaly intended for, but since it's geographically sort of a cut-off from the rest of the land, I've used it as a base for the little town I'm making. Now don't get your hopes up, it's far from finished and there's a lot of stuff in the pipeline atm...

The main focus in this topic should, imho, go to the bigger airports, wich take up quite some space but are unquestionably needed. The 2-runway on Illres I like a lot.
The best scenario would be to have an airport there, another one on the South of Necrosis, another one on Port Orchid (that one could cover flight use for PO as well as Illcom) and one on the NE side of GTI. Those would cover the 4 corners of the existing map quite well.

Mark
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#9

Posted 21 November 2006 - 06:33 PM Edited by GTAuron, 21 November 2006 - 06:35 PM.

ahaa so you're gonna remove the roads about there bar like 1 road leading to and from the airfield eh? I like it actually smile.gif

user posted image

Been playing some more, came up with that. Scale might be out, been a while since i've driven round there. I think there should be plenty of room to make an airport. I spose for now I could just conrete a big slab of that area off for the meantime, then look about in game to what can be done, do some surveying using the place manager etc tounge.gif

lord fido
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#10

Posted 21 November 2006 - 07:06 PM

Nice. I thought it could be added a V.I.P. Terminal and runway and some fuel tanks near the parking.

user posted image

Diesel
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#11

Posted 21 November 2006 - 07:27 PM

Well let's not forget that that's illRes, the residential bit. That airport will essentially be right next to a crapload of houses, and therefore prevent some of the development on that area. We'll see how busy the new islands are once they finally get split up and then I guess we could decide if it's a good place to put the airport... though that's doing things in a sort of backward fashion.

The other option we shouldn't forget is the entirely offshore artificial island airport complex like Osaka airport. This would let us serve this area of the map, and future islands can be designed with the airport system (along with the train network and such and such) already in mind.

Thoughts?

Mark
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#12

Posted 21 November 2006 - 07:47 PM

Possible, but it would be nice to at least integrate 1 airport into an exisiting island really. I've heard that side of illRES is to be more or less like the countryside, which is where airports are usually found. A few settlements can be nearby to be similar to those like at Standstead too tounge.gif

lord fido
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#13

Posted 21 November 2006 - 08:21 PM

Yeah, it would be like escobar international on VCS, just by the trailer park.

BenMillard
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#14

Posted 22 November 2006 - 04:35 AM Edited by Cerbera, 22 November 2006 - 10:11 PM.

When drawing on the map, please bear in mind that 100 pixels is about 1 kilometre. The airport shouldn't dominate illRES because illRES is bloody huuuge.

Also, you probably don't want runways pointing straight at the cliffs. I'm not sure about the buildings on Necrosis, so the NNW-SSE runway may not be viable. We could possibly have a WNW-ESE runway with the freeway running in a tunnel beneath it. Coupled with the green runway I suggested, that might work.

I think we should keep some beachyness and grassyness; kilometre-long concrete blocks are much less fun. Especially if you end up in the water there and need to get back up onto land while a helicopter is shooting you.

Cran.
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#15

Posted 22 November 2006 - 10:29 AM

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Nov 22 2006, 15:05)
When drawing on the map, please bear in mind that 100 pixels is about 1 kilometre. The airport shouldn't dominate illRES because illRES is bloody huuuge.

Also, you probably don't want runways pointing straight at the cliffs. I'm not sure about the buildings on Necrosis, so the NNW-SSE runway may not be viable. We could possibly have a WNW-ESE runway with the freeway running in a tunnel beneath it. Coupled with the green runway I suggested, that might work.

I don't think we should keep some beachyness and grassyness; kilometre-long concrete blocks are much less fun. Especially if you end up in the water there and need to get back up onto land while a helicopter is shooting you.

You mean, we should.. tounge.gif

Maybe we should have a smaller, country-local like airport somewhere? Having a giant airport like that would feel out of place there. Somewhere like where Auron put that red one.

Mark
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#16

Posted 22 November 2006 - 12:38 PM

Well Micks building one, and I know airfields are pretty close together at times, but not usually. I think we should have a military base too.

Meh, it's as good a place as any for an airport. They're usually surrounded by fields with a few towns/villages close by, aka illRES.

@Cerb yeah, those buildings i've added are purely for decoration, I'm sure in the area I've marked out there's room for loooads of stuff.

Snow Racer
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#17

Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:19 PM Edited by Snow Racer, 22 November 2006 - 03:21 PM.

user posted image

Red - cargo/oil supply/air service bah
Green - food supply
Pink - tower
Blue- parking

the public entrance could be underground whre the curved road is

bah just did this of boredom viddy_pirate.gif

::edit
wrong scale... too big... so... meh

Mark
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#18

Posted 25 November 2006 - 03:38 PM

Nice idea, though i feel thats ot really enough parking. Parking at airports is a massive area usually, Gatwick short stay car park is like 8-9 storeys high.

Snow Racer
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#19

Posted 25 November 2006 - 04:48 PM

well I didn't say that it is some flat parking lot... could be a skyscraper parking lot... lol...

Mark
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#20

Posted 25 November 2006 - 05:15 PM

Touché, but it's a bit thin. Anyway, that's particulars, the main thing that needs to be decided 1st is the actual airport area, and also just as important, the actual entrance to it.

BenMillard
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#21

Posted 25 November 2006 - 06:04 PM Edited by Cerbera, 26 November 2006 - 09:08 PM.

Public parking for the illRES airport should probably be underground. That will prevent the airport dominating the illRES surface too much. Something like the San Fierro airport parking?

How about Mick's area becomes the military base? It's isolated and on a hill, so you can't spy into it easily. If he has the runway East-West it should be long enough for the Andromeda cargo plane it would be perfect. Anyone feel like turning it into a C-17 Globemaster III? tounge.gif We'd spawn it in a hanger, maybe with a big door like the hanger for the AT-400 at the Las Venturas hangar. As well as the obligatory Hydra, Hunter, Rhino, Barracks OL and Patriots scattered around.

Would be nice to have military guards spawning and walking around like in GTAVC (and in GTA1's Vice City level). Would be something like Area 69 during the jetpack mission in GTASA, crossed with Fort Baxter in GTAVC, crossed with the military island in the Vice City level of GTA1. "Boot Camp Bonus" anyone? tounge.gif

It should be surrounded by woodland forest and vegetation, where infantry training would take place, with obstacle courses and stuff. There's a few woodland environments in GTASA to get inspiration from. Might be able to fit some research facility stuff like the Ministry of Defence facility near where I live?

Mark
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#22

Posted 26 November 2006 - 02:11 AM

C-17 would be quite nice, has a damn good Cargo ramp too smile.gif An F-35B knock-off for the Hydra would be nice too, to bring it up to date.

I too like the idea of a military airbase, as opposed to every other GTA which has simply had military bases with no airfields at all.

mickarrow
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#23

Posted 27 November 2006 - 07:43 AM Edited by mickarrow, 27 November 2006 - 11:38 AM.

euhm...no anuj_cop.gif

A military base there would mean I'd have to ditch all my work so far on the little town I'm making. I gave up my island idea because people were in favor of filling up the existing land first. Well, fine. That area was discussed back then and 'unofficially' claimed by me (I'm sure you read my sig). Maybe try adding a military base to Necrosis or Port Orchid.

As airports go, a military one wouldn't even be an official one. Focus should imo go to were the official airports go. Anything else is a bonus really. But seeing the remaining modellers around here all got their plates filled, I'd suggest Cerbie better picks a spot, grabs a 3d moddeling program of his choice and starts modelling it allready... Shifty41s_beerhatsmilie2.gif

Mark
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#24

Posted 27 November 2006 - 01:28 PM

Would be pretty kewl to see Cerb pick up a modelling prog I must say smile.gif .

Meh, doesn't have to be built just yet, there's plenty of other things to do before the airports just would be nice to plan em so that people don't build where the land is ideal.

BenMillard
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#25

Posted 27 November 2006 - 11:56 PM

The land on Necrosis and Port Orchid is fully planned by their respective authors, AFAIK.

Good point about the military base not being a civilian airstrip. Ideally we need more than one civilian airstrip and my idea wouldn't provide that. If you intend to have a civilian airstrip on there, maybe we could clarify it's design before you build anything else there? We should ensure that planes could land and take off from it before you built stuff nearby.

There's no official lot list for the Northern islands. As such, building on them is very risky and there's no guarantee of it being used. You should ask in the [Official] Lot Requests and Map Design topic for a map to be made and request that area. The way I see it, you have much more of a claim for that part than anyone else but this will make it official. smile.gif

Mark
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#26

Posted 28 November 2006 - 12:10 AM

He has marked that area in his sig for probably at least a month, so as far as I care, if people don't read signatures, their problem tounge.gif .

DragonV
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#27

Posted 15 December 2006 - 02:06 PM

What about place airport to the saparated island with the bridge to the nearest island? SA map is big, i think we can find place to them. wink.gif

BenMillard
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#28

Posted 16 December 2006 - 12:09 AM

I think making yet another big island is a bad idea. We have several square kilometers of empty land already.

Mark
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#29

Posted 16 December 2006 - 01:38 AM

Agreed. A smaller but built up, complete map beats a large sparse map any day.

Oh, I was thinking. If there's a military base somewhere, turning the tram into a jet fighter on a low-level flying training mission could be quite fun. Kinda like what the RAFs BAE Hawks do around mid-wales. Also make it look like the damn base does summin. After all, you can't board the tram so really I think it's useless as a train. Anyway, that's changing the topic away from the airports a bit.

Condersing we have lights sorted etc, an interesting and elaborate lighting system would be fun. Runway lights, taxiway lights, floodlit terminal gates etc.

Also, I'd like to try experiment with a few models and light to try get a PAPI system working on the approach, cause i'm like that

BenMillard
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#30

Posted 16 December 2006 - 02:07 AM Edited by Cerbera, 16 December 2006 - 02:11 AM.

I'm not sure if the speed of the tram can be changed. Maybe turning it into a target practise drone would work? Although we'd also need to replace the clickety-clack sound it makes. It's probably not too fast for a blimp, GTAVC style, so that's another possibility.

Even though it doesn't stop, if the COL for what we replace it with has holes then players could still ride it. Could use it as a subway train or something, so I'd like to leave it open for now.

Getting PAPI lights to appear large than a pixel could be a bit difficult. I guess you could use a pair of extremely long alpha-transparent cones as the light beams shining alongside the approach path, one red and one white. Players would keep one of their wings aligned with the split between the red and white beam?

The airports would indeed be a prime location for advanced lighting.




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