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Riddle me this, riddle me that...

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DexX
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#1

Posted 12 November 2006 - 03:24 AM

QUOTE (Pre-Release SAPC interview)
GS: During police chases, how do the police plan intercept routes when coming from a side street in front of CJ?

OV: The police cars will plan the shortest routes from their current positions to the player. Generally, these cars will end up chasing the player. In addition, special points have been set up where the police wait for the player . These police cars come screaming 'round the corner when the player enters a special trigger zone . The zones are set up in such a way that the police cars pop up right in front of the player, resulting in surprising moments.


Source

Just read that today, while looking for some other information. Does anyone have any idea where these are stored in the game (ipl, binary ipl, some cullzone, scripted) ? I've checked the existing info, and nothing seems obvious. Anyone got ideas, or up for some more research?

jarjar
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#2

Posted 12 November 2006 - 05:30 AM

I'm gonna take a whack at it and say it's probably either in the main.scm or is hardcoded. It's hard to say, I've never really taken any notice or even seen anything that comes to mind right now. I will keep an eye out however.

Actually, after re-reading your source, maybe it is hardcoded, or has not yet been found, because it does sound like something R* would want hidden. Then again, I could be wrong.

dertyjerzian
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#3

Posted 12 November 2006 - 06:13 AM

QUOTE (jarjar @ Nov 12 2006, 00:30)
I'm gonna take a whack at it and say it's probably either in the main.scm or is hardcoded. It's hard to say, I've never really taken any notice or even seen anything that comes to mind right now. I will keep an eye out however.

Actually, after re-reading your source, maybe it is hardcoded, or has not yet been found, because it does sound like something R* would want hidden. Then again, I could be wrong.

But even if it is hardcoded, there'd have to be some dummy saying "this is what the machine is reaching for" or a text string of coords for each road... Just... something that directs the AI to that part of the map. I've seen nothing of the sorts confused.gif

Unknown CULL integer, maybe?

-- n I dunno why it'd be any more hidden than the rest of the game confused.gif

Blackadder.
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#4

Posted 12 November 2006 - 07:05 AM

I wouldn't be in SCM, because if you were running a stripped SCM cops wouldn't really try to stop you. Maybe it's encrypted in the paths or something, ask Steve-M to check wink.gif

jarjar
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#5

Posted 12 November 2006 - 07:10 AM

QUOTE (blackadder18 @ Nov 12 2006, 17:05)
I wouldn't be in SCM, because if you were running a stripped SCM cops wouldn't really try to stop you. Maybe it's encrypted in the paths or something, ask Steve-M to check wink.gif

Yeah, I was thinking Paths too. But you can't really run commands and check for variables in Paths can you? There just where people go. Maybe it's in a mixture or files, scm, paths, ipl, etc.

Mark
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#6

Posted 12 November 2006 - 03:28 PM

Well, personally yes they sometimes come roaring round a corner the same time you do, I think it's just part of the games harcoding to spawn them on paths at are at the intersection you reach, just like normal cars, except the police notice your presence and so just drive like nutters into you to piss you off. For missions like...oh the name escapes me, the one where Cesar and CJ steal those cars in SF for Wang Cars police cars that are launched then seem to me to probably be SCM coded, as the cars suddenly get launched at you at junctions (if you slow they literally just fly past infront of you) with no flashing lights on, and continue to have no lights on if they pursue you, which I feel is kinda odd and not really linked in with the standard cop chase stuff).

Thus I think the trigger zone ones are just linked to missions, thus are .scm coded, whereas the rest is just down to the probability of cop cars spawning on the car paths.

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#7

Posted 12 November 2006 - 11:57 PM

I'm not sure. When I was pursued while not on a mission, the cops still appeared out of alleyways. So, if they used path info, there would need to be pieces of the path that reffered to the alleys, right?

DexX
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#8

Posted 13 November 2006 - 03:14 PM

looks like its in Vice too;
user posted image

After wiping the cull.ipl, i can safely say its not stored there. methinks ill do testing on VC first, since i know a few more spots like this one, where it happens consistently. Making it part of the path info doesn't seem that far fetched, it could simply be a flag on the nodes.
forget that, i just blanked the paths.ipl, and they still show up.

I'm having a hard time swallowing that they would hardcode every trigger and corresponding spawn point. then again, they have done more bizarre stuff than that...

edit: this wouldnt apply to VC obviously, but SA has some suspicious-sounding files. do we know what "ROADBLOX.DAT" in the data\paths folder does?

steve-m
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#9

Posted 13 November 2006 - 04:31 PM

QUOTE (DexX @ Nov 13 2006, 16:14)
forget that, i just blanked the paths.ipl, and they still show up.

What? You got rid of all paths in VC and they still spawn on (former) roads? Now that's seriously f*cked up.

QUOTE
edit: this wouldnt apply to VC obviously, but SA has some suspicious-sounding files. do we know what "ROADBLOX.DAT" in the data\paths folder does?

My guess is that this is one of the "source" files R*'s path generator used to create the nodes*.dat files, since road blocks are flags in there. Although 4 byte per entry isn't really much information, but maybe these are simply area/node indices.

Mark
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#10

Posted 13 November 2006 - 05:15 PM

You reckon they could be scripted? You working with a stripped SCM?

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#11

Posted 13 November 2006 - 06:46 PM

I agree with SteveM. I don't think it is hardcoded thus it has to be from another source, with main suspect the nodes*.dat files. I wish you luck on discovering the secrets of the file.

Ben
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#12

Posted 13 November 2006 - 11:05 PM

QUOTE (GTAuron @ Nov 14 2006, 04:15)
You reckon they could be scripted? You working with a stripped SCM?

In VC, I would be inclined to believe it would be scripted rather than hard-coded, but for SA, I really couldn't say one way or another.

Playing LC , which operates on the VC engine, I can't recall this ever happening. And since the SCM LC uses is completely different to the default VC one, this makes me think it could be scripted.

However, on the same token, my memory isn't the most reliable thing ever either. And, the EXE has been torn apart and upside down with hacks, so somewhere along the way, this function (if it WAS hard-coded) could've been over-ridden. But that's a bit of a long shot.

Scripting would definitely seem like an easier option when programming it, and the fact that it ALWAYS happens in The Driver in VC (for example) seems to complement this. And judging from what others have said, I'd say that the SCM would be a logical place to look. It shouldn't be TOO hard to find for people who know what they're doing either (that's NOT me tounge.gif ) - it'd be coded fairly specifically if it still occurs even when paths.ipl is wiped, methinks.

Ben goes back to lurking...

DexX
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#13

Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:27 AM

QUOTE
What? You got rid of all paths in VC and they still spawn on (former) roads? Now that's seriously f*cked up

i mean just the triggers im talking about. no the cops arent "ghosting" the old paths tounge.gif

Looks like it IS scripted, as i restored the other files (paths, cull), and wiped the scm. a blank scm, eliminates the triggers.

QUOTE
and the fact that it ALWAYS happens in The Driver in VC

so i looked through the code for that mission, and didnt see anything that looked obvious (i do remember cops, but i dont remember them spawning in the way this topic describes). Of course i happens when not on a mission to, so thats not the only place to check. someone with more scripting experience than i, would be better suited to this. The opcode would most likely have atleast 6 floats, 3 for where the player is, and 3 more for where to create the cops. more if they do boxes instead, or have a directional value.

Blackadder.
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#14

Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:48 AM

I think the game judges where you are and where you are heading and spawn a standard cop car. It gives it alittle push and the sirens only go when it actually realises that you are a criminal (about 2-4 seconds) So they aren't spawning in "alert" mode, they are just standard cop cars thrown along a path randomly generated by the scm I guess.

Mark
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#15

Posted 14 November 2006 - 07:37 PM

Then I guess contacting Dem will be the best thing, considering space isn't around anymore.

BenMillard
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#16

Posted 15 November 2006 - 10:56 PM

I've noticed this effect in GTAVC and (more so) in GTASA but never thought it was hardcoded. I just thought it was the result of police cars always being spawned within a certain radius of you, which sometimes means they are spawned in front or to the sides. This would sometimes means they are spawned in side roads and would accelerate along those roads to try and ram you, just like normal AI.

But since Dexx has found cops appearing at these special locations in GTAVC without paths and removed them by clearing the SCM, clearly there is a scripted element to it.

There are no-car boxes defined in the SCM in GTA3. Seems plausible that some special police intercept boxes (or just circles) could be set up in there as well.

Do the trigger zones work when approaching in either direction, or only from one?

Ben
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#17

Posted 15 November 2006 - 11:15 PM

QUOTE (DexX @ Nov 14 2006, 21:27)
QUOTE
and the fact that it ALWAYS happens in The Driver in VC

so i looked through the code for that mission, and didnt see anything that looked obvious (i do remember cops, but i dont remember them spawning in the way this topic describes).

I don't have a save with The Driver available, and can't be arsed installing TTVC at the moment, so I can't grab an in-game screenie (and besides, playing around in Paint is more fun tounge.gif ). It does happen at this intersection everytime though (see the red circle/arrow):
user posted image

so I'd say it would be safe to assume that it would happen there outside of a mission as well. I might load up VC a bit later and give it a whiz wink.gif .

DexX
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#18

Posted 16 November 2006 - 05:17 AM

Found it! This line creates the setup in my first pic:
CODE
04F8: unknown_path  6  235.3 -1299.6  261.1 -1270.7  212.2 -1309.6  228.0 -1311.3  221.2 -1309.6  228.0 -1311.3

QUOTE
Do the trigger zones work when approaching in either direction, or only from one?

only from one direction, so presumably thats part of the parameters. and...
QUOTE
It does happen at this intersection everytime though

thank you for pointing this one out. on this one, both cop cars come from a separate direction, so each cop car must have its own directional values as well.

i'll sort out these params first, then see how it applies to SA.

Edit: rough format:
04F8, int unknown, float2 player_bbox_start, float2 player_bbox_end, float2 cop1_bbox_start, float2 cop1_bbox_end, float2 cop2_bbox_start, float2 cop2_bbox_end

there are 3 "bounding boxes" that have start XY values, and end XY values (z is calculated automatically), one box for the checking the player, and 1 box for each of the cop cars spawned. presumably the integer at the begining of the line is the spawn type.

dertyjerzian
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#19

Posted 16 November 2006 - 05:33 AM

thats so cool dexx

Mark
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#20

Posted 17 November 2006 - 07:56 PM

LOL time to make VC a lot harder by adding them everywhere! tounge.gif

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#21

Posted 17 November 2006 - 10:00 PM

QUOTE (DexX @ Nov 16 2006, 16:17)
Found it! This line creates the setup in my first pic:
CODE
04F8: unknown_path  6  235.3 -1299.6  261.1 -1270.7  212.2 -1309.6  228.0 -1311.3  221.2 -1309.6  228.0 -1311.3

QUOTE
Do the trigger zones work when approaching in either direction, or only from one?

only from one direction, so presumably thats part of the parameters. and...
QUOTE
It does happen at this intersection everytime though

thank you for pointing this one out. on this one, both cop cars come from a separate direction, so each cop car must have its own directional values as well.

i'll sort out these params first, then see how it applies to SA.

Edit: rough format:
04F8, int unknown, float2 player_bbox_start, float2 player_bbox_end, float2 cop1_bbox_start, float2 cop1_bbox_end, float2 cop2_bbox_start, float2 cop2_bbox_end

there are 3 "bounding boxes" that have start XY values, and end XY values (z is calculated automatically), one box for the checking the player, and 1 box for each of the cop cars spawned. presumably the integer at the begining of the line is the spawn type.

Excellent! Another motivator for me to learn to SCM wink.gif . Thanks a lot DexX.




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