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[Official] Myriad Islands Tunnel

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mickarrow
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#31

Posted 27 October 2006 - 10:28 PM

Depth is infinite? But when you make a gap in the ocean and jump in. After a while the screens fade to black, no? And this rather soon. Makes it hard to believe CJ's at -3000 on the Z axis allready. Does infinity only apply when you keep diving when under an ocean surface? Does the game fades to black when CJ keeps falling and has this nothing to do with the depth coordinates? Ah questions confused.gif

ParoXum
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#32

Posted 28 October 2006 - 09:52 AM

You're right with the no infinite gap. We all know after a while CJ goes up to the surface again when no water's defined.

But when infinite water is defined, i have been downto -350 units by swimming and i could go much lower. Using a trainer and plunge a very long time could give us the answer.

The re-spawn system for CJ seems to work between -50 and -100.

I'm gonna test this again.

Viperman
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#33

Posted 30 October 2006 - 10:59 AM

Mark- Yeah am alive! Life has been taken overs with mk1 golfs and my racing! Race season is over now tho, so hence the reason i want to get into modeling again.

So what is actual needing made? Does anyone fancie given me a run-down of whats made, whats not. Maybe a overhead veiw of exsiting tunnels + new tunnels routes? What about the on-land tunnels control centers?

BenMillard
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#34

Posted 10 November 2006 - 09:59 PM

I've PM'd to Viperman to see if he could continue the experiments with underwater tunnels. I've got so much website work for clients this month that I can't get relaxed enough to do some good GTA experiments. sad.gif

BenMillard
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#35

Posted 27 November 2006 - 11:44 PM Edited by Cerbera, 28 November 2006 - 12:01 AM.

I downloaded Parox's water.dat test suite but it contains no water.dat file. Does anyone have a good technique to finding the water.dat entry which creates water in a specific area?

I've contacted Mickarrow to see if he'd like to help out with this, as he seems to have a lot of experience making water for MISA.

BenMillard
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#36

Posted 29 November 2006 - 04:56 PM Edited by Cerbera, 01 December 2006 - 01:30 AM.

Layered Water Test - 217kB WinRAR archive.

Proof of concept for layered water enabling tunnels beneath fully functional oceans. This is just for testers and developers. The readme.txt file has more blurb.

I can now make continuous water above the tunnel in which you can swim, dive, drown, fall into, sink cars in, pilot boats on, etc. This can have a completely waterless zone below, in which you can run and drive normally. smile.gif

Here's a sketch I made of the layering idea it uses:
user posted image
1024 x 768, 127kB.

Type 2 means the flag value is 2, for example. Type 2 water has an invisible surface. Type 2 and Type 3 have a normal water surface but their underwater effects only go down 6 units maximum. Have to put the layers 4.5 units apart (or less) to avoid the player making strange transitions between each layer.

The bottom layer is visible for testing purposes only. That's also why the water is in one half of each tunnel; so you can see it when swimming and trying other stuff.

This will bloat the water.dat somewhat, but it's only gonna be kilobytes. I'll look into cullzones next. They'll be needed for illSTA's curved ends wrapped around a spiral freeway tunnel to be possible.

But yay, a drivable tunnel beneath water! biggrin.gif

Mark
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#37

Posted 29 November 2006 - 06:33 PM

All I can say to that is sweet! Lets get cracking on some tunnels!

BenMillard
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#38

Posted 30 November 2006 - 08:10 AM Edited by Cerbera, 30 November 2006 - 08:53 AM.

The demo actually contains a tunnel from illCOM to illURB which you can drive along:
user posted image
960 x 860, 91kB.

The right lanes are not underwater. The left lanes are.

The Phoenix and Club are highly recommended as you can go flat out without quite hitting the ceiling at the humps where the tunnel sections join. The tunnel section was made by ParoX and was used in his water testing. His was also the water.dat I used as my starting point.

Investigating cullzones would also be a good idea before we commit to one approach. I think we should wait for more people to test this out since there might be side effects I didn't notice. But after 16 hours of solid testing I think I ironed them all out.

Mark
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#39

Posted 30 November 2006 - 12:13 PM

I'll try it this afternoon, see if I can pick a few holes with it smile.gif

ParoXum
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#40

Posted 30 November 2006 - 04:27 PM

Nice to see progress ! Cerb ? Are you modding ^^ tounge2.gif

Mark
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#41

Posted 30 November 2006 - 04:29 PM Edited by GTAuron, 30 November 2006 - 05:00 PM.

haha seems like it don't it tounge.gif Right ok time to test this in game/have fun, I vote leave to tunnel as it is heheh.

EDIT: Haha i got some real odd bug, I dunno if it does it above the actual tunnel, but I tried seeing how the water around the tunnel not in the tunnel, actually reacted, and oddly I dived in in that Cobra spoof car, sank real fast (though not as fast as falling), the screen started going black (like in the left tunnel) then it spawned me back at the nearest road as usual, but oddly still in the car, plus the handling of the car was like it was actually driving underwater, wouldn't move hardly at all! Got rid of it when i re-entered the vehicle though. Odd thing, though shouldnet affect the actual making of tunnels smile.gif .

BenMillard
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#42

Posted 01 December 2006 - 01:09 AM Edited by Cerbera, 01 December 2006 - 01:30 AM.

Thanks for testing!

The water around the tunnels is the same as the water above them. It is not infinitely deep, so after you've sunk past the bottom level you'll be falling through air.

If you drive to illURB's South coast, opposite DieselGT's docks, you'll see the narrow strip of layered water with air on either side. Try drowning cars/planes in this strip and they should sink to the sea bed as normal. Try swimming and diving in this strip, falling out of an aircraft into it, piloting boats on it, etc. Should all work exactly like regular ocean does. smile.gif

Tunnels would descend from ground level to beneath the sea bed level in areas where there was no water. This would prevent any weird areas being accessible.

Mark
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#43

Posted 01 December 2006 - 02:30 AM

Odd, I can't seem to recreate it..though I did manage a similar thing by skimming the Hydra on the edge on the water, as it fell into black death and respawned, it too acted like it was working under water..just an odd phenomenon i think tounge.gif Also as I expected when testing aircraft, the waters act in the same way that thermals do. If I hover the Hydra with it's wing tip next to the water, when it comes in contact with it, it forces that wing up, tilting the aircraft away from it. The same thing happens if you're flying along in a glider and you catch the edge of a thermal.

That's just me seeing how the water.dat interprets water anyway, no bug reports at all really, all seems to act fine smile.gif the ZR-350 is another fun one to bomb down the tunnels, only need to lift off a bit at the top, makes it fun to see how close you can get to the roof without hitting it smile.gif .

Yay, time to make a tunnel I guess.

BenMillard
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#44

Posted 01 December 2006 - 02:53 AM

Even if the ends are flat, that still relies on the water strips to the X and Y of it being illSTA-sized. Cullzones would give more control if there's which can turn off the audio and visual effects of water. The work I thought I was going to have this week has just come through, so I don't know when I'll get chance to try.

I think Snow Racer's illCOM-illURB tunnel will be the first to get built, once we decide on a method. Steve-M mentioned trying timecyc.dat zones to cancel the water in some places but I don't know how to do that.

Mark
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#45

Posted 01 December 2006 - 02:21 PM

I'll investigate a bit this weekend, but I've got an assignment to be getting on with so I'm not promising.

oh, one issue I did notice with the tunnel was the fact you could still hear aircraft etc going overhead tounge.gif Proved to be quite odd. Therefore if cull zones / timecyc idea does work, i think it would be best to just use that method.

BenMillard
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#46

Posted 08 December 2006 - 06:36 PM

I'm not sure whether cullzones would prevent aircraft spawning, even when underwater. I've been very busy with work this week so no testing from me, sorry. Maybe this weekend.

I've been talking with Snow Racer about going ahead with his 4-lane illCOM-illRES tunnel. He's already built it for the most part, but hasn't finished the illCOM lot it exits onto.

Also, the illURB roads might be changing when they are widened, and they aren't split into official lots yet, so we aren't sure whether we can make a connection there. I've suggested he make a rough, unofficial connection there. We'll ignore any of the planned connections to other tunnels for now.

He hopes to have a release of this tunnel in January 2007. I'll use the layered water technique for it unless myself or someone else finds some cullzones which can turn off water. So that's something to look forwards to. smile.gif

markiij
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#47

Posted 18 December 2006 - 04:32 PM

YEAH, i really hope it will be released in january:D waiting so long for this.

BenMillard
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#48

Posted 24 December 2006 - 11:15 AM Edited by Cerbera, 31 December 2006 - 04:34 AM.

Found a PM from Respawn while cleaning up my PM inbox. It includes a rough plan for the Necrosis tunnels from October. We talked about it on MSN at the time but weren't sure whether the various tunnel routes should intersect and if they did, how to do that.

I wasn't sure if the connections to the surface made sense, either. One end of the tunnel connects into the middle of a hairpin bend on a minor road in the South West. His connection onto illURB happens at a random location on a 2-lane road, right near to a T-junction with another 2 lane road, far from the 4-lane freeway.

I wasn't sure about his routes, either. For example, the pink part on the East which loops around the North and then runs down the West. This is further than driving around the ringroad. It could cut straight through the middle of the island, making it a lot shorter.

I think the South West of Necrosis needs a direct tunnel connection with an intersection onto the ringroad because it's so far from any bridges. A Directional T or Trumpet would make sense since that tunnel spur would terminate at the ringroad. I don't know if there's space for that, though.


I've been testing CULLzones underwater. So far I've have not found one which disables water effects. The GTAVC value for the Marina carpark didn't work. I figured that CULL zones wouldn't work because the effect is physical, audio and visual all at once. Steve-M suggested using timecyc.dat but I'm not sure how that works.

For the time being, layered water seems like the only way.


(EDIT) The Necrosis tunnels are intended to connect into illRES using the illRES crater connection road designed and made by illspirit.

BenMillard
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#49

Posted 31 December 2006 - 06:29 PM Edited by Cerbera, 31 December 2006 - 08:08 PM.

Illspirit has been on the Myriad Islands IRC Channel the past couple days. He's pointed out there are updated roads in that area from months ago, and suggested a different connector for the tunnel:
user posted image
1280 x 960, 125kB.

I'm not sure there's a enough space to the South to get the tunnel road beneath the sea bed without being too steep. Also, the curvy route would be more fun to drive:
user posted image
1024 x 1024, 94kB.

Snow Racer is back on January 5th 2007, so I'll run this past him then.

steve-m
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#50

Posted 31 December 2006 - 06:35 PM

So what's that other small 2-lane connector thingy for, then?

BenMillard
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#51

Posted 31 December 2006 - 07:27 PM Edited by Cerbera, 01 January 2007 - 01:15 AM.

The underground tunnels are going to be 4 lane wide freeways (high speed paths if possible). The old 2-lane connector would either be removed or used for something else.

(EDIT) Respawn, illspirit, myself and some other people on the IRC channel have put our heads together. Think I caught headlice from one of them...but we also made a thorough review of the tunnel route.

This is my understanding of the refined plan:
user posted image
1024 x 1024, 80kB.

Legend:
  • Red = Respawn's mostly 4-lane tunnel loop under Necrosis.
  • Gold = The 2-lane link from the illRES crater down into the main tunnel.
  • Green = Main 4-lane tunnel linking Necrosis to Port Orchid under the sea. Will use high-speed car paths, hopefully.
  • Grey = Snow Racer's 4-lane tunnel linking illCOM to illURB under the sea.
The tunnel routes aren't in boring grid now, so there's a lot more variety in the intersections.

With the intersections, each road is a seperate tunnel. Where two roads join, it will be something like this from GTASA:
user posted image
800 x 600, 48kB.

Our tunnel ceilings will be lower than these and any pavement will be seperate from the road.

Mark
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#52

Posted 01 January 2007 - 08:25 AM

For more coolness, if anyone has ever seen the film Ronin, the tunnel they go through in the car chase in that would be mucho fun and personally, a great style of tunnel to use.

BenMillard
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#53

Posted 01 January 2007 - 06:35 PM Edited by Cerbera, 01 January 2007 - 08:15 PM.

Yeah, the concept is to use a tunnel like that but using American dimensions for the green route. Something like the freeway tunnel beneath the San Fierro golf course:
user posted image
1024 x 768, 85kB.

Not sure what the grey, gold and red tunnels will use. I'd like the gold route to use 50% oversized lanes with the AI paths set to run with a larger than default spacing between time. That would allow players to drive down the middle at high speed, the main purpose of the tunnels.

BenMillard
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#54

Posted 18 January 2007 - 02:56 AM

Think I've found a less weird interchange for linking the Necrosis ringroad into the main network. It's the UK interchange for M1-A41-A4008. You can also see it on Google Maps, and this little template:
user posted image
Applying this to MISA:
  • The A4008 wouldn't exist.
  • A41 and M1 would be further apart.
  • A41 would be the Necrosis ringroad.
  • M1 would be the main network.
  • The exit ramps ramps would be a lot shorter since GTA landscapes are compressed.
The main network is below sea bed level, so the oval would be above that. The Necrosis ringroad would then be above that, minimising the height change for each exit.

This design solves the awful weaving necessary in my design. Plus, we'd get a fun oval to powerslide round and round in. smile.gif

I'm buried under professional website work again. I'll make some diagrams of this and run them past people over IRC when I can find the time.

BenMillard
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#55

Posted 19 January 2007 - 06:40 PM Edited by Cerbera, 19 January 2007 - 07:16 PM.

I've got the OK from Respawn on this revised design:
QUOTE (Cerbera and Respawn on MSN)
REspawn says: yea its much cleaner looking
Cerbera says: cool
Cerbera says: and it keeps the two networks seperate, so you can develop the Necrosis tunnels however you wish
REspawn says: wasnt that the plan anyway?
Cerbera says: yes, just pointing out this doesn't comprimise that smile.gif
REspawn says: nifty

And also permission to run the main network deep beneath that area:
QUOTE (Cerbera and Respawn on MSN)
Cerbera says: so it's OK if I get someone to make the portion of main network which runs past this area? it'll be below the sea bed level, so it shouldn't interfeer with your stuff
REspawn says: yea fire away
Cerbera says: killer, cheers respawn
REspawn says: no problem mate

I could do with:
  1. Talking to illspirit about where the illRES connector is ending.
  2. Talk to JasonB about where the Port Orchid connector will end.
  3. Find how deep Snow Racer is running the grey route tunnel.
  4. Find out the deepest part of sea bed which the tunnel will pass under.
Then someone can actually make the main network (green route). Will probably be Parox, with locO_G or someone doing 2DFX light coronas down it's whole length.

locO G
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#56

Posted 23 January 2007 - 03:29 AM

I've got the Greenline tunnel ingame.
user posted image

It's just a test. I'm going to wait until all other tunnel connections have been finalised before I refine any of this.

I've got a modelling 'to-do list' (5 points long).
All this postcard shows is the use of Vertex Painting to break up the length of the tunnel in order to add interest.

More pending...

aad
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#57

Posted 23 January 2007 - 07:50 AM

Really nice Loco_G, gives me the feelling that gta3 had tunnel racing, transportation troughout the whole city trough the levels, really want to see something like that back soon in Myriad.

Cya

Aad.

BenMillard
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#58

Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:47 PM

Yeah, LG's been a lifesaver with stepping in and taking the main tunnel network on. smile.gif

Here's the updated route plan, with the revised Necrosis interchange and illspirit's illRES connector:
user posted image
1024 x 1024, 93kB.

The gold section will run just beneath the sea bed near Necrosis. The green section will slope down underneath the grey tunnels. It will continue going down as it heads towards Port Orchid, allowing a deeper water around there.

mickarrow
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#59

Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:58 PM

@ locO: good to finally see some real progress. all seems fine.

About the grey tunnel: Is it supposed to be highway? 2-lane, 4-lane? 'Cause from this map view it's a continuation from the smaller road you drive upon when exiting illsub and 90 crossing the bigger road on illcom.
Same issue on illres with the green/yellow tunnel. I assume a tunnel this length is going to be multiple lane highway, right? Otherwise what would be the point of taking the tunnel? Imo that tunnel should be attached to the larger road in the crater, and I still believe a crab-like connection could do that trick, both visually and game-wise. Even though you discharged that idea rather quickly on irc...

locO G
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#60

Posted 25 January 2007 - 01:12 AM Edited by locO G, 25 January 2007 - 01:36 AM.

Greenline update

user posted image

I've updated the tunnel design and the MI-IRC team are testing as I write.
I can't wait to start hooking this up with the rest of MI

Edit: What about this for a stroke of luck.

user posted image

It wasn't until Gforce tested the tunnel route that we realised just how close I was to collision with the trainline.

locO's a lucky boy. Straight down the middle. I couldn't have planned it better.




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