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Vehicle Handling

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Ben
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#1

Posted 22 August 2006 - 10:41 PM Edited by Ben, 24 January 2007 - 01:59 AM.

Ok, I'm going to attempt to finalise the vehicle handling data for LC. The first thing I want to emphasise though is that a 100% authentic conversion from GTA3 is not possible, however, I will be aiming for increased authenticity through the changes I implement. Because the VC engine works differently to GTA3 (mostly through VC's improved vehicle physics), the only way to get a 100% authentic conversion is to work out a series of long and complicated equations/algorithms in the EXE, which works out as a waste of time (for the effort required), not to mention the fact that LC "markets" the improved physics as a feature.

Anyway, a lot of the vehicles are pretty much right - they might need some minor tweakage, but I'll get to that at some stage. In fact, I'm only working on this every now and then at the moment as I have one more assignment for school, before I'm free for a while. The vehicles that have problems I will list below:
VehicleIssueFixed?
Kuruma
Flips on corners sometimes
Yes
Manana
Flips on corners sometimes
Yes
Police Car
Not as balanced as in GTA3
Yes
Yardie Lobo
Flips sometimes whilst using hydraulics
Yes
Sentinel
Model Flag error
Yes
Stretch
Model Flag error
Yes
Mule
Model Flag error
Yes
FBI Kuruma
Model Flag error
Yes
Bus
Model Flag error
Yes
RC Baron (Dodo)
Model Flag error
Yes
Stallion
Model Flag error
Yes
Mafia
Model Flag error
Yes
Yankee
Model Flag error
Yes

The issues listed exist in LC only (as in, they are differences between LC and III) - the Kuruma, for example, is quite difficult to flip around corners in III, yet this is relatively easy to do in LC.

If there are any other vehicles that handle significantly differently in LC when compared to III, please report the vehicle's name and issue here and I'll look into it at some stage. This list will also be kept updated, and updates can be found here . smile.gif

Blackadder.
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#2

Posted 24 August 2006 - 03:53 AM

Maybe changing Mass slightly would help? Or maybe change the suspension upper limit, so that the car can't go too far from the wheels.

Ben
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#3

Posted 24 August 2006 - 08:03 AM

I've changed a few values - for the cars that flip, I've lowered the centre of mass to make them more stable, and for the Yardie Lobo, I've changed some suspension settings to make it match the Voodoo from VC. But I haven't done any testing yet - I'll let you know how it goes smile.gif .

Blackadder.
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#4

Posted 24 August 2006 - 08:33 AM

Sounds Good smile.gif . Also I havn't played GTA3 for a while, but in LC the stallion slides a bit too much. I'm not sure if its a handling problem or if its meant to be like that. Its just annoying when you go round corner and slide into the damn wall.

Ben
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#5

Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:04 AM

I'll look into it and have a play around with some of the traction values icon14.gif . Cheers.

Blackadder.
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#6

Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:18 AM Edited by blackadder18, 24 August 2006 - 09:23 AM.

Cool,also i'm reporting from V6, not 2.7 or whatever, so it might of been fixed.

You got MSN?, if so add me so we can discuss Vehicle Handling smile.gif

Ben
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#7

Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:25 AM

The handling data hasn't changed since before Beta 1 as far as I'm aware. The only change was to the vehicle names with handling.cfg, but I don't think any actual values were changed. There's definitely been no changes from v6 to v7test - all values match GTA3. So report anything you think is out of place and I'll look into it wink.gif .

Blackadder.
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#8

Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:31 AM

Ok, I will, I mght go for a drive tonight alien.gif

simplyunkillable
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#9

Posted 24 August 2006 - 10:50 AM

copy the lines from gta3, but add the extra value from a similar car.

Blackadder.
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#10

Posted 24 August 2006 - 11:55 AM

You cannot do that, as the physics have changed, so even if you do sucessfully convert handling line, it would most probably never be the same as the physics are different.

kiwidesign
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#11

Posted 24 August 2006 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE (blackadder18 @ Aug 24 2006, 08:33)
...Also I havn't played GTA3 for a while, but in LC the stallion slides a bit too much. I'm not sure if its a handling problem or if its meant to be like that. Its just annoying when you go round corner and slide into the damn wall.

the stallion has always been a craply sliding car, in all 3 GTAs user posted image

simplyunkillable
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#12

Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:41 PM

QUOTE (blackadder18 @ Aug 24 2006, 11:55)
You cannot do that, as the physics have changed, so even if you do sucessfully convert handling line, it would most probably never be the same as the physics are different.

lol.gif funny, funny man. try comparing, for example the gtaIII manana handling line with that of the vice city line. they are the same exept for one new value added near the end.

Blackadder.
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#13

Posted 27 August 2006 - 03:15 AM

No you dont get it, the engine has changed slightly so even if you convert the line perfectly, it won't be EXACTLY the same as the GTA3 handling.

Ben
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#14

Posted 27 August 2006 - 03:20 AM

Alrighty, I have an update to handling.cfg which fixes a few issues. Check out the text document included for all of them, but basically it makes the Kuruma, Manana, Police and Yardie much more GTA3-like. Get it here smile.gif .

offthewall
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#15

Posted 27 August 2006 - 03:28 AM

Aww, cool...so does that mean the first post will have green letters saying yes? Or is there still a little more to be fixed?


edit: The words changed when I posted the reply, haha Good Job! LC is coming along great. smile.gif

Ben
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#16

Posted 05 January 2007 - 01:51 AM

Ok, there's been a few minor updates that fix a few errors (such as two plumes of exhaust smoke when there was only one muffler on a car, etc.). This is untested, but shouldn't cause any problems. Thanks to simplyunkillable for pointing this out to me.

The crux of the problems was in model flag data - there were several differences between the data in GTA3's handling.cfg and LC's. After wrecking my head, I eventually figured out how to read the data correctly (and I'll explain that below). If you check out the Change Log included in the download , you can see what changes I have (and haven't) made. The table in the first post has also been updated to briefly note the changes made.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

READING HANDLING MODEL FLAG DATA:
The way that the flags are written in the model flags field in handling.cfg is a little strange. I know next nothing about HEX, except that it uses 16 digits and uses the letters A, B, C, D, E and F (A=10, B=11, and so on to F=15 - 0-15 is 16 digits). Considering my knowledge (or lack thereof) of HEX, my assumptions could be a little incorrect, but the bulk of this explanation should be right.

Unlike conventional number-related reading, the flags do NOT read from left to right - rather, from right to left. However, the number of digits also plays a part in way to read them - it's a little difficult to explain, so I'll try and use some examples.

Consider this flag data:
CODE
8102

It has four digits, so the 8 applies the flag data for the 4th digit (remember, we're reading from right to left) - see below for flags data (from GTA3):
CODE
; (ad) flags!!!  WARNING - Now written HEX for easier reading of flags
;  1st digit =  1: 1G_BOOST         2: 2G_BOOST       4: REV_BONNET    8: HANGING_BOOT
;  2nd digit =  1: NO_DOORS         2: IS_VAN       4: IS_BUS        8: IS_LOW
;  3rd digit =   1: DBL_EXHAUST     2: TAILGATE_BOOT  4: NOSWING_BOOT  8: NONPLAYER_STABILISER  
;  4th digit =  1: NEUTRALHANDLING  2: HAS_NO_ROOF    4: IS_BIG        8: HALOGEN_LIGHTS

Therefore, the HALOGEN_LIGHTS flag is applied. Moving on to the 1 - as you can see, the DBL_EXHAUST flag is applied. The 0 means that the 2nd digit uses no flag, and the 2 means that the 2G_BOOST flag is applied. Pretty simple, eh? Well, consider this flag data:
CODE
81024

It has five digits, so straightaway it can only apply to VC (as opposed to GTA3) - VC has three extra flag fields when compared with GTA3 - see below for VC flag data:
CODE
; (ae) flags!!!  WARNING - Now written HEX for easier reading of flags
;  1st digit =  1: 1G_BOOST         2: 2G_BOOST       4: REV_BONNET      8: HANGING_BOOT
;  2nd digit =  1: NO_DOORS         2: IS_VAN         4: IS_BUS          8: IS_LOW
;  3rd digit =   1: DBL_EXHAUST     2: TAILGATE_BOOT  4: NOSWING_BOOT    8: NONPLAYER_STABILISER  
;  4th digit =  1: NEUTRALHANDLING  2: HAS_NO_ROOF    4: IS_BIG          8: HALOGEN_LIGHTS
;  5th digit =  1: IS_BIKE          2: IS_HELI        4: IS_PLANE        8: IS_BOAT
;  6th digit =  1: NO_EXHAUST       2: REARWHEEL_1ST  4: HANDBRAKE_TYRE  8: SIT_IN_BOAT
;  7th digit =  1: FAT_REARW        2: NARROW_FRONTW  4: GOOD_INSAND

In this instance, the 8 applies the flag data for the 5th digit - therefore, the IS_BOAT flag is used. The 1 in this case applies to the 4th digit - NEUTRALHANDLING, and so on, meaning the other flags would be IS_VAN and REV_BONNET. Keep in mind that this is simply a made-up example and obviously wouldn't work very well in-game, but it demonstrates how to read the flag data pretty effectively. The same process is used for any number of digits from one through to four (as per GTA3) or from one through to seven (for VC).

I hope that will help someone out who (like me) couldn't figure out how the heck the flag data applied. As I said above, my lack of HEX knowledge might mean that this was a bit obvious - perhaps HEX reads from right to left? I don't know - either way, this explanation still makes sense, and is explained from a n00b's perspective.

smile.gif

BenMillard
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#17

Posted 05 January 2007 - 03:27 AM Edited by Cerbera, 05 January 2007 - 03:30 AM.

The best way to edit flags is to simply use a handling editor, such as CFG Studio. It doesn't preserve any comments you put in the file, but it makes flag editing easy:
user posted image
640 x 480, 88kB.

Hexadecimal numbers are read the same as regular. Highest values on the right, lowest values on the left. "Digit 1" means the lowest value digit, so it will appear furthest to the right. smile.gif

You're dead right about the slight physics changes between GTA3 and GTAVC. You could try comparing my GTA3 Handling Overhaul with my GTAVC Handling Overhaul. The biggest differences I found in the weight shifting and how the tyres respond to the ground. I ended up using slightly different styles in each game so I could make the most of the better physics in GTAVC.

You can't get the performance identical in each game - particularly when on two wheels - but it should be pretty close. Feel free to use any/all the setups from my overhauls if you like.

Ben
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#18

Posted 05 January 2007 - 04:20 AM

Thanks. At this stage we've got it going pretty well - we've marketed LC as taking advantage of VC's improved physics engine, so the difference isn't too much of an issue. But this thread's been open for a while and no-one's reported any drastic differences, so I think we might have got it to a stage where everyone's happy smile.gif .

Somehow I knew that HEX thing would get the better of me though... tounge.gif

[CTD]LaBan
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#19

Posted 09 January 2007 - 02:05 PM

but guys, can u put helicopter height limit to higher level? bored.gif

richard the pissed
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#20

Posted 09 January 2007 - 04:00 PM

what was the flag error on the stallion?

Ben
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#21

Posted 09 January 2007 - 10:26 PM

The Stallion was using the NONPLAYER_STABALISER flag in LC, but not in III, so I removed it.

I was just going to tell you to download the file and check the change log, but there's something seriously wrong with Y_Less's site confused.gif . I'm going to ask him what the problem is, and hopefully it'll be working again soon.

ThreadNecromancer
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#22

Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:39 AM

IT IS I! the great FORUM NECROMANCER! BWahahahahaha.... This post has been dead since 2007.... YOU NOW LIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE devil.gif

Craig Kostelecky
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#23

Posted 24 September 2012 - 03:05 AM

Look, I have no problem with "bumping" old topics. But at least add something of value to the topic instead of just wasting my time.




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