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Rockstar Secret?

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GTA_Loco
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#1

Posted 26 February 2006 - 11:17 AM Edited by GTA_Loco, 26 February 2006 - 11:33 AM.

This could be well one of the alleged undiscovered yet "secrets" of Rockstar in the game.
Did you know that the Camper has about 13 HIDDEN colors? These colors are unobtainable at Pay N spray and can't be found in any of the Camper driving around the cities. Cool thing about these hidden colors is that they
can be obtained inside and outside of the mission, anytime in the game and in most cities. Special vehicles, either proofed or with unique paintjob are only found inside missions. But this one is not necessarily the case.

What you need to do is simply drive around in any city in a Camper, and locate a PARKED Camper.
Once you've found one, you'll find that the Camper would sport the normal colors. Drive around the block
for awhile then come back for the parked Camper. Now you'll see that it'll be dressed already with the hidden colors! It couldn't be that simple eh?

The hidden colors that you'll find would depend largely on what basic colors the parked Camper was sporting at the time you found it. For a guide on this, here's a link: http://www.gtaforums...=159973&st=3620.

The normal colors that you'll find in a parked Camper are random too and not dependent on what color scheme of the Camper that you're driving in. The appearance of the Camper in which location is random also.
You'll have to check the places where they could possibly be parked. It could be anywhere in the city, but in most cases it can be found in parking lots. Sometimes you'll even find as much as three of them! You'll just have to drive around a lot and check the places where they spawn.

Good news is , I've managed to locate also some spawn points for these Campers that have hidden colors.
There could be others but so far these are just what I've found out:

1. LOS SANTOS :
a) LS Int'l Airport parking lot b) GLEN PARK, by that parking lot beside the Bahamas apartments. c) Comm'l arcade parking lot beside Jefferson motel in JEFFERSON.
d) Church parking lot in Idlewood(?) . There could be others but so far these are just what I've located in Los Santos and have proven consistently spawning a Camper. Just check out any of these places.

2. BADLANDS
a) Dillimore. Parking in WELCOME PUMP bar. This is the place where you'll meet Catalina for the first time b) Angel Pine. Alternately appearing in any of the two houses, infront of Clucking Bell if I'm not mistaken and in a warehouse compound near the safe house. Though I haven't tested how reliable this particular spawn point is. b) Foot of Mt. Chilliad where there are vehicles parked.

3. SAN FIERRO
a) Parking lot infront of Zero's shop in GARCIA. b) Church (mormon?) parking lot in OCEAN FLATS. These two are the most reliable so far. There's another spawn point in Hashbury behind the Sub Urban shop, in what looked like a small walled parking lot, but this location spawns only the normal colors.

4. LAS VENTURAS ( untested yet)


If the colors won't change, just drive around for awhile, they'll eventually cycle through the combinations before the Camper would disappear in its location. If you didn't find the colors you like, just locate another Camper in a different location. Sometimes you'll have to check some spawn points outside of the city where you are to be able to locate the Camper. On a couple of occassions I had to go as far as Dillimore when I can't find any Camper in Los Santos.


Well there you go. Choose the color scheme you like for this hippy vehicle. All yours!

Have fun. rah.gif

Smallo
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#2

Posted 26 February 2006 - 09:24 PM

Nice Find! Going To Test It Out Now!!

Here Have Some Cookies cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif

pdescobar
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#3

Posted 26 February 2006 - 10:16 PM

Frankly, that looks more like a bug to me than an intended secret. But it is interesting. You should see if the same thing happens with Cement Trucks since that's the only other land vehicle with 4 paint colors defined.

GTA_Loco
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#4

Posted 27 February 2006 - 06:00 AM

QUOTE (pdescobar @ Feb 26 2006, 22:16)
Frankly, that looks more like a bug to me than an intended secret. But it is interesting. You should see if the same thing happens with Cement Trucks since that's the only other land vehicle with 4 paint colors defined.

Thanks for the cookies smallo.

PD, it's hardly a bug at all IMO. I've tested it thoroughly and it appears to be a feature of this game to have hidden colors for the Camper inside or outside of missions. It really looked interesting to see the Camper change to Pay N spray unobtainable colors everytime. Re Cement Truck, now you've given me a good idea. I'll definitely try it with this vehicle and see if it'd work the same way. If you can check the snapshots I took of all the hidden colors of this car in the link I provided, you'll reach to the conclusion that its hardly a bug at all.

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#5

Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:31 AM

And if you get the Transfender Overhaul mod, you can give it the hippy paintjob.

GTA_Loco
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#6

Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:46 AM

Well that'd be really cool. Too bad though that only works for PC platform I suppose. Maybe R* decided to have other color options for this Camper this way, as an added "easter egg" in the game. Otherwise, they could've made this moddable. I wonder why not all vehicles in the game were made moddable. Like why are some vehicles in the same class not moddable in the case of the Banger, Hotknife, Sandking,etc in the Cars & SUV class and why the Bobcat,Moonbeam & Walton the only ones moddable in the Trucks&Vans class?

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#7

Posted 28 February 2006 - 01:15 AM

QUOTE (GTA_Loco @ Feb 27 2006, 01:00)
QUOTE (pdescobar @ Feb 26 2006, 22:16)
Frankly, that looks more like a bug to me than an intended secret. But it is interesting. You should see if the same thing happens with Cement Trucks since that's the only other land vehicle with 4 paint colors defined.

Thanks for the cookies smallo.

PD, it's hardly a bug at all IMO. I've tested it thoroughly and it appears to be a feature of this game to have hidden colors for the Camper inside or outside of missions. It really looked interesting to see the Camper change to Pay N spray unobtainable colors everytime. Re Cement Truck, now you've given me a good idea. I'll definitely try it with this vehicle and see if it'd work the same way. If you can check the snapshots I took of all the hidden colors of this car in the link I provided, you'll reach to the conclusion that its hardly a bug at all.

I looked at the pictures. The color combinations are different than the pay & spray colors, but they're not particularly striking. What possible reason would a developer have to insert a hidden feature this obscure? You may consider (to take an example) a camper that's black, white and yellow instead of black, red and yellow to be an Easter Egg, but I don't think so. A bug in the paint-choosing algorithm on AI vehicles due to the fact that the camper is one of only three 4-color vehicles in the game seems far more likely to me.

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#8

Posted 28 February 2006 - 06:58 AM

hmm A interesting find indeed.

GTA_Loco
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#9

Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:13 AM Edited by GTA_Loco, 28 February 2006 - 08:21 AM.

QUOTE (pdescobar @ Feb 28 2006, 01:15)
I looked at the pictures. The color combinations are different than the pay & spray colors, but they're not particularly striking. What possible reason would a developer have to insert a hidden feature this obscure? You may consider (to take an example) a camper that's black, white and yellow instead of black, red and yellow to be an Easter Egg, but I don't think so. A bug in the paint-choosing algorithm on AI vehicles due to the fact that the camper is one of only three 4-color vehicles in the game seems far more likely to me.

Some of the mission-based UCCs (Uniquely colored Cars) have colors that are not particularly striking either. But obviously they were inserted there by the developers as an easter egg, special vehicle or whatever one might call it, obviously to be found too as an added "bonus".

As for your question on the possible motive of the developers for creating the other colors for the Camper in such an obscure manner, IMO it's no different from their motive in creating the mission-based proofed cars and UCCs. Maybe it'd would've been obvious already to look for UCCs inside missions. So perhaps they thought of creating at least one, in which case the Camper, that can be found outside of missions.

If this were really a bug in the paint-choosing algorithm, then still this makes it an interesting "find" in the game isn't it? Theoretically it may be a bug or glitch, but how much are we really sure about this, unless maybe we programmed the game? Besides, this seems quite a "huge" bug in the said programming considering that there are 13 colors involved and not just a couple or a few more. If you'll try this out with the Campers that are spawning at the top of Mt. Chilliad and behind Sub Urban in Hashbury, you'll never get any of the other 13 "secret" colors. These only occurs to Campers spawning in locations that are not regular spawn points for this vehicle. And you can find these Campers that switches to the hidden colors only when you start driving a Camper also.

Maybe one particular paintjob bug that is very well known already is the case of Truth's Camper. But this one involves deleting the colorful paintjob on a permanent basis, and not changing it in a consistent manner as in the case of the normal Campers which are the subject of this thread.

So in conclusion, I think there's something in here that R* has intentionally created.

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#10

Posted 28 February 2006 - 10:35 PM

QUOTE (GTA_Loco @ Feb 28 2006, 03:13)
QUOTE (pdescobar @ Feb 28 2006, 01:15)
I looked at the pictures. The color combinations are different than the pay & spray colors, but they're not particularly striking. What possible reason would a developer have to insert a hidden feature this obscure? You may consider (to take an example) a camper that's black, white and yellow instead of black, red and yellow to be an Easter Egg, but I don't think so. A bug in the paint-choosing algorithm on AI vehicles due to the fact that the camper is one of only three 4-color vehicles in the game seems far more likely to me.

Some of the mission-based UCCs (Uniquely colored Cars) have colors that are not particularly striking either. But obviously they were inserted there by the developers as an easter egg, special vehicle or whatever one might call it, obviously to be found too as an added "bonus".

As for your question on the possible motive of the developers for creating the other colors for the Camper in such an obscure manner, IMO it's no different from their motive in creating the mission-based proofed cars and UCCs. Maybe it'd would've been obvious already to look for UCCs inside missions. So perhaps they thought of creating at least one, in which case the Camper, that can be found outside of missions.

Special mission-based proofed cars aren't necessarily supposed to be collected and used beyond the mission; you have to either fail the mission creatively or (in rare cases) pass the mission in a certain way and then do something afterwards to be able to get them. I don't believe any of those are intended for us to be able to collect since if you play the missions "as intended" you can't keep them long-term. And UCCs are cars whose colors are set in the mission script; this is done simply to make them more noticeable, or because when the carcols.dat was finalized, there was no reason to go back through the script and make mission cars conform. I see quite a distinction between a particular car with a specific purpose in a single mission spawned explicitly by the script and random AI spawns outside of missions.

QUOTE (continued...)
If this were really a bug in the paint-choosing algorithm, then still this makes it an interesting "find" in the game isn't it? Theoretically it may be a bug or glitch, but how much are we really sure about this, unless maybe we programmed the game?

Yes, I said it was interesting in my first response. I have never claimed it wasn't interesting or wasn't worth discussing. My only objection is the assumption that this was a special "hidden" feature that was intended by the developers. By the end of this post, I will have beaten this to death, though, and this may well be my final word on it barring new evidence showing up.

QUOTE (continued...)
Besides, this seems quite a "huge" bug in the said programming considering that there are 13 colors involved and not just a couple or a few more. If you'll try this out with the Campers that are spawning at the top of Mt. Chilliad and behind Sub Urban in Hashbury, you'll never get any of the other 13 "secret" colors. These only occurs to Campers spawning in locations that are not regular spawn points for this vehicle. And you can find these Campers that switches to the hidden colors only when you start driving a Camper also.

Bugs are rarely easy to pin down; if it was easy to trigger, obvious to detect, and simple to solve, it would have been fixed before release. The fact that it doesn't occur on campers at defined spawn points simply makes it sound more like a bug to me. Those locations are specifically defined in either the SCM or the IPL files and the code which spawns things there in-game would obviously be different than the code which handles random traffic spawns. As for the need to be driving a Camper, perhaps it's a memory issue that's the result of multiple Campers being on-screen or it simply appears that way because the car-spawning mechanism spawns more Campers if you are driving one than if you aren't.

QUOTE (continued...)
Maybe one particular paintjob bug that is very well known already is the case of Truth's Camper. But this one involves deleting the colorful paintjob on a permanent basis, and not changing it in a consistent manner as in the case of the normal Campers which are the subject of this thread.

So in conclusion, I think there's something in here that R* has intentionally created.

The eating of paintjobs is not limited to the truth's camper and is very probably unrelated to this; custom paintjobs are specific textures applied to a vehicle rather than the special coloration of the default texture.

I am now going to define overkill by doing a fairly detailed analysis of the camper colors. First, here are the 8 defined paint schemes from carcols.dat; these are the color combinations that a pay & spray will give and are supposed to be the only color combos on random spawns as well. Note that the colors may be a bit dimmer than you'd see in-game because I am using the raw values without any of the lighting or reflection seen in the game. The numbers to the right of each color correspond to that color's index in the carcols file.

user posted image

First, you should notice that there are really only seven paint schemes since the first two are duplicates. More importantly, you should note that the fourth color is always black and if it's actually used on the car at all, it's a tiny detail. Thus, I will ignore it and focus on the other three colors. The following diagram (using one of your screen shots as a base) shows how these colors are applied in combo 7:

user posted image

I shall now examine the 11 "special" color schemes that you supplied pictures of in your other post. I realize that you've noted 13 such colorations, but I can only comment on the ones that you gave pictures for. For simplicity, I'm inlining them here as I discuss them.

user posted image
Examining the "black set" of colors, we see that these are color combo 5 with the tertiary color being white or black instead of the red shown on the left. Both of those colors are used as tertiary in other paint schemes.

user posted image
Similarly, on the "green set" we see that the two special color schemes are combo 7 with the tertiary color being red or black instead of white/gray. Again, both red and black are tertiary colors on other schemes.

user posted image
Onto the "white set" which are combos 1-4. Your first image of hidden colors is combo 3 with the tertiary red replaced by beige along with combo 1/2 with the tertiary white replaced by the same beige. Note that this beige is used on combo 8.

user posted image
On white set image 2, you have combo 1/2 with the tertiary white instead replaced by the tertiary red from combos 5&6. Next to this is combo 4 with the tertiary black replaced by that same red.

user posted image
Finally, on the last image you have three campers. The first is combo 3 with the tertiary red replaced by black; the second is the same combo but with tertiary white. The third camper is combo 4 with the tertiary black replaced by white.

Thus on all 11 "special" color schemes where you supplied screenshots, the campers use a standard pay & spray paint job but with the tertiary color replaced by a color that's normally a tertiary color on one of the other paint schemes. To me, that just screams "bug" but I've said my piece on it and bored 98.3% of forum members in the process so I'll end it here. wink.gif

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#11

Posted 28 February 2006 - 10:51 PM

PD you need a hobby... and you gotta learn to just say "lolz ur stoopid" instead of giving logical factual analyses. tounge.gif

GTA_Loco
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#12

Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:31 AM Edited by GTA_Loco, 01 March 2006 - 12:05 PM.

Well first off PD, that's really impressive of you being able to make a detailed analysis of the Camper's colors. One advantage I must say of using a PC Platform where you can read through the game data. Thank you also for the overkill response wink.gif
There's actually a Red color set that involves 4 more Pay N spray unobtainable colors that I was unable to upload. My bad for providing 11 only of them and saying 13 when there were actually 15 in all. I'm not a programming savvy person so hopefully you'll just forgive my ignorance in understading game data, aside from the fact the I use a PS2 platform. Excuse my curiousity also if I'll extend my discussion on this matter. And I think what we're discussing here is a significant curiousity which is perhaps as significant as some easter eggs & glitches and not just a "stupid" persistent claim.

The analysis on the colors and argument presented are still more like just a presumption that some colors have "somehow" interchanged in a given combo, thus arriving at a conclusion that it's a bug, but nowhere explained how they occured. Now my question is, and this is related to my latter statement : are these unobtainable colors provided in a programming script, a code or data in any specific manner? You mentioned that locations for regular spawns handle a different code than locations that handle random traffic spawns. Are there any code therefore in the random-traffic spawn that possibly points to the real nature of these randomly changing unobtainable colors of the Camper?

On the theory that this screams a bug since the color switching doesn't occur on regularly spawned Campers, I think if we're going to follow your explanation on the different code handling for the different spawn locations, then maybe we need to investigate further whether there's an existing code for the unobtainable colors for the random spawn Camper, and not just an error or abberation in the handling of its regular color coding there.
Just a persistent and annoying curiousity really wink.gif



QUOTE
PD you need a hobby... and you gotta learn to just say "lolz ur stoopid" instead of giving logical factual analyses.  tounge.gif



Mxyzptik, I think helping out other gamers in their queries is a hobby already for PD smile.gif
I think too we need more people like him ( and you) around here, who are articulate enough to provide useful informations on issues. Giving factual analyses, explanations are certainly needed also in game discussions and not just calling someone "stoopid" when answers are unable to come out of one's head wink.gif


PS. I've just uploaded the RED COLOR SET in the PS2 screenshots. They were just separated from the rest because I exceeded in the number of uploads allowed.

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#13

Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:42 PM

QUOTE (GTA_Loco @ Mar 1 2006, 06:31)
There's actually a Red color set that involves 4 more Pay N spray unobtainable colors that I was unable to upload. My bad for providing 11 only of them and saying 13 when there were actually 15 in all. I'm not a programming savvy person so hopefully you'll just forgive my ignorance in understading game data, aside from the fact the I use a PS2 platform. Excuse my curiousity also if I'll extend my discussion on this matter. And I think what we're discussing here is a significant curiousity which is perhaps as significant as some easter eggs & glitches and not just a "stupid" persistent claim.

I expected one or two different red sets based on combos 6 & 8; quickly scanning them, they follow the same pattern as the previous ones. It actually wouldn't suprise me if you could eventually find as many as 28 different combinations given enough time although maybe only 21 or so would be easy to distinguish as the two shades of red and two shades of white/grey are both very similar.

QUOTE (continued...)
The analysis on the colors and argument presented are still more like just a presumption that some colors have "somehow" interchanged in a given combo, thus arriving at a conclusion that it's a bug, but nowhere explained how they occured.

Making assumptions and deductions is all anyone outside of Rockstar can do. Without the source code or any statement made by the developers hinting at their intentions, the "bug" vs "feature" argument is ultimately unsolvable. So let's just agree to disagree and put that argument aside. My hypothesis that the tertiary colors are getting mixed up somehow is just an educated guess and could apply regardless of whether the color-switching is intended; it is the simplest explanation for the color differences and also would account for why such color changes happen on the camper but not on any of the two-color cars (since the others don't have a tertiary color to get mixed up.)

QUOTE (continued...)
Now my question is, and this is related to my latter statement : are these unobtainable colors provided in a programming script, a code or data in any specific manner? You mentioned that locations for regular spawns handle a different code than locations that handle random traffic spawns. Are there any code therefore in the random-traffic spawn that possibly points to the real nature of these randomly changing unobtainable colors of the Camper?

The colors for Pay & Spray and randomly spawned traffic vehicles are supposed to be completely defined by carcols.dat; the actual camper line in that file looks like this:
CODE
camper, 1,31,1,0, 1,31,1,0, 1,20,3,0, 1,5,0,0, 0,6,3,0, 3,6,3,0, 16,0,8,0, 17,0,120,0

And a translation of that line into something colorful and more easily readable was given in the image I previously posted. Parked car locations are defined via IPL entries and mission script commands. Two colors can be set in the IPL entry but the I believe that either the carcols colors override them or they use a special value telling the game to use carcols instead; I have limited experience with IPL and SCM coding. You can also spawn parked cars in the SCM and you can explicitly set colors with an SCM opcode. That's how, for instance, you always see a yellow van in the Mike Toreno mission. Unfortunately, all the real details of random-traffic spawning are handled in the exe and not the data files. Thus, it is hidden from us and all we can do is experiment and observe. So, we can understand parked spawns fairly well since we can see (and change) the IPL entries and the SCM commands. However, we don't have any glimpse at what's going on with random traffic spawns and therefore don't get any real details on the extra camper colors you've documented.

QUOTE (continued...)
On the theory that this screams a bug since the color switching doesn't occur on regularly spawned Campers, I think if we're going to follow your explanation on the different code handling for the different spawn locations, then maybe we need  to investigate further whether there's an existing  code for the unobtainable colors for the random spawn Camper,  and not just an error or abberation in the handling of its regular color coding there.
Just a persistent and annoying curiousity really wink.gif

As stated above, random traffic spawns are handled in the executable and there's no reasonable method to see exactly what's going on there. All we can say is that experience shows us that random traffic spawns sometimes spawn campers with normally unobtainable colors; however every one of the odd combinations seen thus far could be the result of combining the primary/secondary colors of one obtainable set with the tertiary color of a different obtainable set. Exactly why that happens, we may never know.

One final note, I drove around for an hour or two in a camper yesterday on xbox version 1 and didn't see any unobtainable color combos; I'd be real curious to see if this oddity occurs outside of the PS2. And I'm also still interested in if it happens to Cement Trucks.

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#14

Posted 02 March 2006 - 08:52 AM

QUOTE
It actually wouldn't suprise me if you could eventually find as many as 28 different combinations given enough time although maybe only 21 or so would be easy to distinguish as the two shades of red and two shades of white/grey are both very similar.

In what I've shared with you, only 15 different combinations have shown so far in the past days that I've tested them.

QUOTE
Making assumptions and deductions is all anyone outside of Rockstar can do. Without the source code or any statement made by the developers hinting at their intentions, the "bug" vs "feature" argument is ultimately unsolvable.

This is what won't make the nagging feeling in me that there's something in those color combos be put to rest. Hopefully we can have some answers sooner or later, from R* or someone who can decipher the coding somehow to clarify this color behavior.
QUOTE
Two colors can be set in the IPL entry but  I believe that either the carcols colors override them or they use a special value telling the game to use carcols instead; I have limited experience with IPL and SCM coding. You can also spawn parked cars in the SCM and you can explicitly set colors with an SCM opcode. That's how, for instance, you always see a yellow van in the Mike Toreno mission. Unfortunately, all the real details of random-traffic spawning are handled in the exe and not the data files. Thus, it is hidden from us and all we can do is experiment and observe. So, we can understand parked spawns fairly well since we can see (and change) the IPL entries and the SCM commands. However, we don't have any glimpse at what's going on with random traffic spawns and therefore don't get any real details on the extra camper colors you've documented.

And R* guys might've done something in the exe to make those colors appear in the manner dictated by the method I menthioned. Now this therefore leads to more scrutiny because if the developers did make something in the exe, then we might be looking now at the theory that those unobtainable colors were intentional. And so, would this mean those colors are an easter egg? rolleyes.gif


QUOTE
And I'm also still interested in if it happens to Cement Trucks.

I'm gonna try this out for you PD, plus the ROADTRAIN, NEWSVAN & BF Injection.




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