Posted 01 July 2010 - 03:39 PM
Its clear because;
Italians actually does this kind of thing. If you watch Godfather series, they usually sneaking behind the enemy and killing them. For example, in Godfather 1, Tattaglia killed Luca Brasi with no attention. They first make him think they want to work with him, they offered 50k grands, after they killed him like dogs .
Also, after the father shot by Virgil's guys, Santino ordered Clemenza to kill that young boy. But, Clemenza never got front of him. He make that young boy think that he's still part of this family, so they were crusing around New York City to find something else...After, they went to the cityside, and Clemanza get out from the car to take a piss, while he was doing this, another guy in car killed the young boy in one shot.They acted very very good!
Also, in 1992, San Andreas, Salvatore did wrong to Carl Johnson. This means that, Salvatore is not reliable as all italian gang families. If we look at the Maria's words at 2001, in LC, she says " Salvotore is paranoic, he thinks about everyone, he is searching everybody else etc. He is also not İtalian as Toni Cipriani says while introducing him to the Don, its makes suspicious the Claude.
As I know, Diablo's and Mafia are far from friends. As you all know, we are doing jobs for El Diablo by the telephone, most probably, Salvatore knew that fact and wanted to destroy him. Not only by this, because as Maria says, negotiations between Cartel and Mafia resulted as , destroying him. Because, Catalina is fearing from Claude for revenge.
Because of this fair, she does some other things to kill us in Gta 3. For example, last mission of the Yardie's, we are going to pick up a car, but after, we are hearing Maria's voice from the cars radio that telling " Have you witnessed the power of the spank? " after, madmans with tons of bombs are coming to kill us. One of the missions of the Asuka, called "Bait" , Asuka informs us that Catalina settled some squads to kill us.
Posted 04 July 2010 - 02:00 AM
Posted 04 July 2010 - 11:05 AM
|QUOTE (Canoxa @ Jul 4 2010, 02:00)|
|My memory might be a bit out of shape, but, in that last mission for the Yardies, isn't that Catalina as well, not Maria?|
Posted 06 July 2010 - 12:51 AM
Claude was working for the Diablos as a previous poster said and the Mafia HATES the Diablos, not only that but it's not as if Claudes that trustworthy of a person. Hell he sold out the Yakuza for Donald Love, and then once Maria told him that her and Claude were having an affair why would he TRUST Claude? He's already parinod and was ripped off by a highly capabile killer in GTA SA, and now this man comes into his home, sleeps with his hoe and works for the emeny? Then Sal wanted to get in on Spank and have peace with the Cartel. The best way would be to kill Claude. If I was Sal, I would of gotten rid of him too...though a gun to the end would of been more effective....
Posted 06 July 2010 - 11:04 PM
Posted 06 July 2010 - 11:07 PM
Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:32 PM
1) The events of Bomb Da Base occur. Sal is pleased with Claude, wants to make him.
2) Either during or immediately after Bomb Da Base, Maria tells Sal that she and Claude are an item. Sal is furious.
3) Sal realizes that destroying the SPANK factory would bring about open war with the Cartel, something he can't afford since the Triad and Forelli wars have weakened the family.
4) Sal decides to kill two birds with one stone: get rid of Maria's lover and avoid war with the Cartel. He goes to Catalina or another Cartel rep and agrees to kill the guy responsible for the destruction of the SPANK factory in exchange for peace between the factions.
5) Sal commissions 8-Ball to supply the bomb to kill Claude (whether 8-Ball knows he's doing this to kill Claude is not immediately known), then lure him to his death with Last Requests.
Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:14 PM
Posted 07 October 2010 - 09:03 AM
In "Chaperone" the Police Raid has been alerted by Salvatore I'm sure of it
In "Cutting the Grass" Again Claude could of really been killed easily
In "Bomb Da Base" A very easy way to get killed.
And Finally "Last Requests" Salvatore was officially not only pissed but worried that he wasn't dead, so the bomb in a car is the sneakiest.
After Claude had escaped that due to Maria there was no other choice other than to kill him and be done with it, that is the story.
Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:04 PM
Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:10 PM
There IS a possibility for this to happen. Maria was only used as a detonator to ignite the bomb named "Claude vs Salvatore". She is a dumb broad, as Salvatore stated, so she could have done it on her own will.
P.S. Off-topic. JustRob, in the future use the "Track this topic" function to be able to find it easily. There was no need in bumping it if that's what you did it for.
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Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:39 PM
Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:58 AM
Last Requests Script
If you read it, it makes some things clear.
1) Claude and Maria started a relantionship behind Salvatore's back. Maria had said to Sal: "we were an item".
2) That pissed off Salvatore and he figured out an plan
3) After Claude and 8-Ball had took out the boat, Salvatore made a deal with Colombians,but
It dosen't makes sense. One-hand Salvatore wanted to kill Claude and give him to the Colombians.
Anyway he sticked to the car killing.
4) IMPORTANT: 8-BALL PLANTED THE BOMB. Who was the "man you get a lot of bang for your buck?"
5) Salvatore wanted the Claude dead because he had a relationship with Maria. And Salvatore didn't need Claude anymore after the SPANK destruction. 50-50: to kill him or turn him up.
Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:31 PM Edited by john12, 05 November 2011 - 12:34 PM.
Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:47 PM Edited by Kalev4ever, 12 January 2012 - 09:54 PM.
It just makes me laugh when I watch how the two betrayal missions (Last Requests and Kingdom Come) are given.
Salvatore L.: Firstly looking after his girl Maria, secondly killing Curly Bob, then sinking the container ship and then all of a suddenly the last mission, where it is said that you have to take a car to the crusher (A man who is one of the two, who sinks a big ship, while killing many Columbians and then after that he is being sent on a last mission to drive a car to the crusher, lol?). "I´ve got just one little job for you before we can all celebrate" - THEIR celebration if Claude would´ve got killed by the bomb.
King Courtney: Firstly a race, then killing 10 rival gang members (who will be hostile to Claude afterwards) and thirdly gathering some gang cars, that was a pointless time-consuming mission. God sakes, it seems that the Yardies and their posse have listened too much Scientist. Finally their last (betrayal) mission. A three-sentence long intro from the boss to introduce the mission, just doesn´t mean anything good. Why oh why wasn´t there a mission to kill King "Coward" Courtney? For such a betrayal it would´ve been logical
I would not make things more complicated by the Last Requests. Years and years ago, in real life, when killing rate was quite high, it was typical that a "client" paid a hitman, to cap someone. When the act was done, the same "client" paid some other hitman, to cap the hitman, he had paid for the first time, etc etc...
For me it was most likely that Sal didn´t need Claude any more and maybe Maria and the "topic going on" provoked him more to do it. I wouldn´t blame 8-Ball, because it would be quite easy for Sal to ask 8-Ball to plant a bomb on to the Cheetah to "eliminate an enemy, who needs to be taken care of once and for all" - this is the part for the guys, who want to make the topic more complicated - where did the Cheetah come from? You could not go to Staunton Island before this mission. Maybe from the guy, who drove a Cheetah in the mission Chaperone?
Posted 5 days ago Edited by Bartleby, 5 days ago.
I'm bumping this topic because it's always intrigued me.
I've been doing another 100% run of GTA3 lately, and every time I get close to finishing the Portland missions, I always weigh the competing theories here against each other for fun, and I can see merit in each of them. According to the game's plot, somewhere between "Chaperone" and "Last Requests" Maria tells Salvatore that her and Claude are an item, maybe to make him jealous or to play some petty game, as she's portrayed as being kind of a ditz. Salvatore, paranoid enough already (which goes back to events that took place in San Andreas), becomes furious enough to want to have Claude killed...but not Maria, strangely enough? She doesn't mention anything in "Last Requests" when they meet at Callahan Point about how she is in any danger, only that she's desperate to escape the violence she's seen while staying with Salvatore. So, that's one thing that bugs me about accepting the implicit canon of the game.
But on this particular playthrough, one thing stuck out to me...at that meeting at Callahan Point, Maria says "you're a marked man on Mafia turf"...before completing "Sayonara Salvatore", have a drive through Saint Mark's. You'll see that it's as pleasant as a Sunday drive through the countryside. No shots ringing out, no angry mobsters running to waste you...nothing. For all intents and purposes, it's the same as it ever was before you were told the Don was gunning for you. Isn't there something wrong with this picture? If Salvatore truly sold you out to the Cartel, and then tried to get you killed when that plan failed, why would he just allow you to stroll back into Mafia territory like everything's great? And with Maria as well...he's not angry that his girl of the past eight years (going by San Andreas) has run off with the very person he tried to sell out? No...none of this adds up.
Riffraff's explanation is good, but it requires some tweaking with this in mind. So instead, how about this: The Don sees so much potential in Claude (as seen in the cutscene for "Salvatore's Called A Meeting"), and the fact that he's such an effective henchman for him over the course of the following missions means he feels he's an invaluable asset to the Leones, what with the war with the Triads and the coming war with the Cartel. Because of this, he sends Claude and 8-Ball to take out the Colombian's SPANK boat, fully confident they can get the job done. They do, he's immensely proud, and all he needs is one little job done before they celebrate. In this theory, the story he gives Claude is totally legit, and Salvatore just needs him to tie up a loose end before they can move on and take back the influence they've lost in Liberty City. As far as Salvatore is concerned, he's happy and the future is bright.
Now, Maria is obviously unhappy with her relationship with Salvatore. Somehow she knows Asuka, a high-ranking Yakuza member, sister to the Waka-Gashira himself. Asuka would like your services for their war with the Cartel and the Yardies, as well as to increase their influence in the city of course; Maria recommends you to her because you are very good at blindly obeying orders, which is why she's taken to referring to you as "Fido". Meanwhile Maria would like a reason to escape her life with the Leone mob boss she's so tired of. So, they decide to make their move by tricking you into believing you were double-crossed, by making up a story about Salvatore selling you out. They place a bomb on the car they know you're being sent to as an insurance policy in case you don't believe them, in which case you'd die and they'd still go on to Staunton regardless. You buy their story, they take you to Staunton, where they then have you kill Salvatore, just in case the truth ever comes out, rendering you unable to go back. This is obvious in my opinion, because as I said, before you kill Salvatore there has apparently been no kill-on-sight order for you given to their street-level mobsters...which is quite strange, given Salvatore's notorious paranoia and assumed jealousy due to Maria. I don't think Maria even actually told Salvatore that you two were an item, since she knew that would place you in danger due to Salvatore's paranoia, thus jeopardizing her arrangement with Asuka...this is even more clear to me, given once she tells Claude about it she quickly tells him she doesn't have a reason for doing it and immediately changes the subject to their apparent need for escape. Smells like bullsh*t to me. If that's still not enough, consider that despite her saying that she's seen "too much killing, too much blood" in this same scene, Maria gladly assists Asuka in torturing Miguel during the "S.A.M." cutscene...making it seem as if she is not quite as averse to gore and violence as she made it sound.
Finally, Asuka is killed by the Colombians near the end of the game. Maria is rescued from the clutches of Catalina and the game ends....with Maria being a ditz again. Uh, why? Isn't she broken up that her close friend has been murdered? Doesn't seem like it...seems as if Maria is just as much of a heartless sociopath as anyone else in the game, she just hides it better. Maybe this can be used to support a theory about the ambiguous shotgun blast at the end...but that's a completely different kettle of fish.
So basically I'm convinced that story-wise, the alternate theory that everything was cooked up by Asuka and Maria to turn you away from the mob and that you were played like a fiddle makes a lot more sense than what the story seems to provide. Am I thinking about this too much, as GTA3 is almost a decade and a half old? I don't think so, it's fun for me, and I've always been a total nerd for this game. Hopefully some of you find it interesting as well.
I've made a few edits to this by now, to make some things clearer, and also added a few points.
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Posted 5 days ago
Salvatore could use his hired goon to take care of Triads, Cartel and Yakuza. Joey and Toni were glad to have a Claude on their side. Toni later tell Salvatore, there is new playa in the city, who take care of Triads and Forellis. Claude could recover Leone influence in Liberty City. Maria was pissed of Salvatore in LCS, but when Toni said that he don't have large account, she return to Sal.
- Sal give a job, that car is full of blood and messy, so he tasks Claude to destroy Cheetah before cops find it out.
- When we are close to car, Maria send a meesage to visit her at Callahan Point. How she know that car is rigged? In my opinion, she rigged a car, being a tired with Salvatore, she also worried that Sal will find her and kill/torture her. She quickly make a story, that Sal make a deal with Cartel(seriously, Salvatore want a total control of Liberty City by himself) and Claude is marked men in Saint Mark's.
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