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PEDs/Actors/Animations

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AK-73
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#61

Posted 26 April 2006 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE (Y_Less @ Apr 26 2006, 09:44)
What is the right toe bone actually ever used for?  How much of a difference would removing it make, in terms of appearence?


If no converted actor has any vertices attached to it, then it won't make any difference. afair, tommy has no vertex attached to it, it may be that some original vice models have, I don't know. Since we have two foot bones in VC and no toe parts in GTA3 either, I think it should make no difference if all the actors are converted properly (no vertex attached to toe bones). *Unless* the game engine uses the position and rotation of the toe bones for some internal calculations at one point or the other. We'll see. smile.gif

Alex

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#62

Posted 26 April 2006 - 11:33 PM

Give it a buzz and let us know how it goes icon14.gif .

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#63

Posted 04 May 2006 - 02:02 PM

QUOTE (benisablink182fan @ Apr 26 2006, 23:33)
Give it a buzz and let us know how it goes icon14.gif .


Bad news, I can't get toe bones to be animated. I can attach vertices to them but even though the animation data is in the ped.ifp, it won't move or rotate.

So that means the only option left is to attach them to the finger bones and deactivate finger animation for all models, all other animations, but that's not a good option in my book. I don't recommend to disable one of the wider-ranging features of vice for a single original GTA3 animation.

There might be one or the other alternative left, such as trying to change skin when the animation plays or something like that but none sound too good.

Maybe it's just not possible to get the middle finger into vice.

Alex

Craig Kostelecky
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#64

Posted 04 May 2006 - 02:13 PM

I can live without the finger animation in LC if you don't think it can be done.

Ben
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#65

Posted 06 May 2006 - 02:55 AM

Agreed. Even if you can just change the animation so that Claude sticks his arm straight up as per III, I'll be happy smile.gif .

teh pwner
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#66

Posted 06 May 2006 - 06:59 AM

have a look at what this guy has done. it may bepossible to copy that affect, whatever he did.

Konstantinos
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#67

Posted 06 May 2006 - 11:35 AM

QUOTE (teh pwner @ May 6 2006, 08:59)
have a look at what this guy has done. it may bepossible to copy that affect, whatever he did.

All he did was to edit the model (very poorly) so that the player's hand is constantly showing the finger. That's completely useless as we wanted Claude to give the finger at the right moment.

Anyway: After I took these screenshots, I realised something: Since the AK replaces VC's MP5, Claude holds it with one hand (like a smg) instead of both (like a rifle). Can this be fixed ?

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#68

Posted 06 May 2006 - 03:48 PM

nope, the AK was in vice aswell, tommy holds it one handed, but fires with two. i wouldn't say it was a problem anyway, AK47's are realy light.

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#69

Posted 07 May 2006 - 03:57 AM

QUOTE (teh pwner @ May 7 2006, 01:48)
nope, the AK was in vice aswell, tommy holds it one handed, but fires with two. i wouldn't say it was a problem anyway, AK47's are realy light.

I don't remember seeing the AK in VC (although I could be mistaken). But if it was, why not just tweak it slightly to make it like GTA3 (instead of replacing the MP-5)?

Anyhow, we're trying to make it more or less GTA3 authentic (with several VC features incorporated), and the weapons is something where we're aiming for authenticity.

And AK-73 did try that option with the finger constantly shown, but it ruined the effect and looked terrible - that would never be included in LC. We'll just have to live without it wink.gif .

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#70

Posted 07 May 2006 - 07:49 AM

QUOTE (benisablink182fan @ May 7 2006, 03:57)
QUOTE (teh pwner @ May 7 2006, 01:48)
nope, the AK was in vice aswell, tommy holds it one handed, but fires with two. i wouldn't say it was a problem anyway, AK47's are realy light.

I don't remember seeing the AK in VC (although I could be mistaken). But if it was, why not just tweak it slightly to make it like GTA3 (instead of replacing the MP-5)?

Anyhow, we're trying to make it more or less GTA3 authentic (with several VC features incorporated), and the weapons is something where we're aiming for authenticity.

And AK-73 did try that option with the finger constantly shown, but it ruined the effect and looked terrible - that would never be included in LC. We'll just have to live without it wink.gif .

yeah it is, lance has one in the mission "rub out".

Konstantinos
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#71

Posted 07 May 2006 - 11:01 AM Edited by Konstantinos, 07 May 2006 - 11:49 AM.

QUOTE (teh pwner @ May 7 2006, 09:49)
yeah it is, lance has one in the mission "rub out".

You're constantly confusing VC with III. The AK is in III ONLY, VC has Kruger and M4.

Thinking about it, why not simply put the AK into Kruger's slot? I know we're trying to make it GTA3-authentic, but I always thought it pretty stupid to carry AK and M16 at the same time. This way the AK would be held with both hands as it's supposed to be, and you could replace it with M16 later on.

EDIT: Nah, I just realised that this would cause a problem with FBI. I'm sure this was discussed throughly in the Weapons topic... just forget it.

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#72

Posted 07 May 2006 - 01:31 PM

so sure? lance has an asault fifle he can run with, but needs to hold it with two hands to fire. it also looks exactly like the LC AK47.

vice city has an AK. simple.

Y_Less
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#73

Posted 07 May 2006 - 04:39 PM

gtanet vice city site.

According to this network, there is an AK.

Craig Kostelecky
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#74

Posted 07 May 2006 - 05:44 PM

If there was an AK47 in Vice, why would we have used the MP5's slot? I think the M4 is the closest thing in the Vice engine to the AK47. And we used that slot for the M16.

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#75

Posted 07 May 2006 - 06:00 PM

why would GTANET say it if it wasn't true?

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#76

Posted 07 May 2006 - 06:23 PM Edited by Konstantinos, 07 May 2006 - 09:06 PM.

QUOTE (teh pwner @ May 7 2006, 15:31)
so sure? lance has an asault fifle he can run with, but needs to hold it with two hands to fire. it also looks exactly like the LC AK47.

vice city has an AK. simple.

* AHEM *

user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image

You were saying? confused.gif

You would also argue that you get fireproof as a firefighter reward in GTA3. Please stop making such absurd claims. I wouldn't mind if it were in a GTA3/VC forum, but it's rather annoying here. You should know your game before contributing to a modding discussion. Or at least you should not question someone like Craig, who's been through the code and therefore knows EXACTLY what the game does.

@Y_Less: That site also lists sledge hammer (apart from normal hammer) as a weapon. It's obviously some very old beta info.

To get the discussion back on track, I was asking if it were possible to change the animation of Claude holding the AK, so that he would use both hands as in GTA3. Any thoughts?

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#77

Posted 08 May 2006 - 08:32 AM

Look, I've already been through and culled pointless posts in this topic - please don't fill it up with more.

The bottom line is, Lance carries an M4 in Rub Out. If you go to the Downtown Ammunation in VC, that's where you can buy it (the same gun). The other assault rifle is the Kruger (which you get in the mission Guardian Angels).

I don't care what that site said - it's obviously wrong because you can see it yourself in-game.

@Kon - agreed. Please, teh pwner, get your facts straight before posting.

As for your question, AK-73 would be able to answer more accurately, but I think that should be do-able. As far as I know, he left the firing/action animations untouched when he converted them, so I got the impression he could do it wink.gif .

AK-73
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#78

Posted 09 May 2006 - 12:52 PM

Hi all!

About the finger: if you can find the memory address that stores the current animation, you might be able to switch skins on the player for while the animation is playing. That would cost a skin for the middle-fingered Claude but it could work.

About the AK animation: one word - weapon.dat. smile.gif A look into that file could have settled the dispute fairly quickly too. wink.gif

Maybe it would be a good idea to contemplate which animations now need a adaption the most. I especially don't like the animations where Claude is running around with the shotgun, heavy weapons, where the hanging arms problem is most obviou, I'd like to work on them. Anyone finds other animations needing conversion too?

Fighting animations is problematic. I've begun to work on a *few* of them and ran into problems . First of all, peds make use of the long kick attack now in Vice which was in GTA3 the jump kick; I think peds didn't do jump kicks in GTA3 but they will in VC if you adapt the long kick animation. Secondly, there's timing and distance issues. The fighting animations, the getting hit animations and the data in weapon.dat as well as possibly some fighting engine data have to fit each other. Suffice to say that it's a complex issue. I think doing that would require the attention of more than one team member and the success of that is by no means certain - you might fight out in the end that replacing all fight and hit animations and adapting weapon.dat doesn't yield satisfying results. It may but it may still not work right either. For example if the AI doesn't base its attacking on the attack distance from weapon.dat but from a hard-coded value and so on. Haven't tested that one.

Alex



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#79

Posted 09 May 2006 - 09:32 PM

QUOTE (AK-73 @ May 9 2006, 14:52)
About the AK animation: one word - weapon.dat. smile.gif A look into that file could have settled the dispute fairly quickly too. wink.gif

I've tried that already, it doesn't work. Obviously the holding stance, as well as sprinting with the weapon is hardcoded to its slot. So it's something we'll have to live with, unless an exe hack can be figured.

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#80

Posted 09 May 2006 - 10:45 PM

@Alex - Regarding the f*cku animation and the missing finger, if you think it can be done, I think it should be given a shot. I've got to compile a checklist of EXE issues for Hammer to sort out when we both get a chance (me to make the list, and Hammer to do the work), so I can add this to that icon14.gif .

Can you alter the AK/MP-5 animation at all? It's only a minor thing, but I know you're a stickler for those sorts of issues wink.gif .

I still haven't been able to test out those latest files you sent me, but I don't think there'd be too many issues with them (especially seeing as they're a step up from the previous ones, which were nearing perfection wink.gif !). So I'd have to see what the fighting animations look like before we make a decision on whether or not to change them - hopefully Craig will have his graphics card issues sorted so he can do some testing (Craig, just let me know and I'll send the latest files your way smile.gif ).

If you can tweak the running animations with the weapons to be more GTA3-ish, that'd be great smile.gif . You just have to make sure that they are still "smooth" though (like the touch-up work you had to do on Claude's running when you first changed it) wink.gif .

Regarding the fighting animations, though, I don't think it really matters if the PEDs do a jump-kick as long as Claude does. And if there's no issues with it (like attack distance as you mentioned) - if you could test that out sometime, that be awesome icon14.gif .

However, it'd be even better if you could quickly convert the GTA3 Prison Claude - I'm sick of looking at the Tommy-Prison-Claude when I start up a new game tounge.gif . IIRC, it didn't take you too long to do normal Claude, so Prison Claude shouldn't take too long either.

Also, just thinking off the top of my head, I can't think of any other animations to tweak - you've covered the idle stance, the running/sprinting, the f*cku animation (still problematic), the carrying/running with weapons, the fighting, and Prison Claude needs converting. Also, I've not noticed any issues (when I was testing before) with Claude on any of the bikes or getting into or out of cars icon14.gif .

So, keep up the good work cookie.gif ! However, Choofy might be the only other team member who can help out with the animations, but he hasn't been active for some time - I don't know if anyone else has the know-how in that area confused.gif .

@Kon - It might be able to be done - Alex was able to change the running animations with handheld weapons, so perhaps he can do it with the AK/MP-5. We'll see smile.gif .

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#81

Posted 10 May 2006 - 03:41 PM

Hi all! smile.gif

Of course those animations can be altered but that's not the point, Ben. If Kon is right, the exe chooses which animation to play and that can be a problem. If I replace an animation for the MP5 it might cause the animation to be changed for all SMGs and that's not what you want? smile.gif

About the fighting animations: don't expect too much from the file I sent you. I have only replaced 3 attacks and one (the punch) looks in-game different than in gmax. That shouldn't be the case and I'll have to look into it. The jump kick looks a bit short to me too, but in gmax it has exactly the same length as the GTA3 jump kick.

Don't worry about lack of smoothness on animations, these were my first two attempts at conversion, it won't happen anymore as I got more experienced on the stuff.

About other stuff... heh, I mean I *could* be motivated to make stuff that I'm not really interested in wrt using it in my own mod... *provided* in exchange some GTALC team member would at least *start working* on solving the issues I have mentioned (stuff required to make LC more GTA3-like and which happens to be stuff I'd like to do with my mod also). wink.gif Fair deal? smile.gif

About converting animations - anyone with a basic familiarity with gmax/3dsm will be able to do that. It doesn't require too much skill.

Alex


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#82

Posted 10 May 2006 - 06:04 PM

why not replace the kruger?

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#83

Posted 10 May 2006 - 06:15 PM

I don't remember all of the details about the weapons as those decisions were made over two years ago and before I took over. But I'm guessing the reason we didn't use the Ruger was because that gun has a manual aim target whereas the AK47 needs to be able to lock on to enemies. I'm not sure if that can be changed in the weapon.dat file or not as I haven't played with that much at all.

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#84

Posted 11 May 2006 - 04:25 PM

Hey, just popped in to look around a bit-

@Craig- From what I remember, you can change the riteclick manual aim in the hex values thing in weapon.dat. I've had some experience messing around with it and I've done some stuff like making the python use the colt45 animation and vice versa, making it so you can run and shoot with the uzi and mp5, trying to make a grenade launcher, etc. But yeah, if you change the kruger you can make it look and feel like the AK but it wont sound that way unless you change the SFX archive because it uses the M16 sound, im not sure if thats because of the LC memhacks or both sounds were changed because I remember the ruger and m4 sounding different.

And you should change the chrome shotgun into the LC shotgun because it comes from the copcars, has a 3-pronged bullet-trail, and can be changed to use the buddyshot animation.

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#85

Posted 11 May 2006 - 07:54 PM Edited by Konstantinos, 11 May 2006 - 08:13 PM.

Making the AK replace Kruger would cause a problem with FBI agents, who are hardcoded to use MP5s. As for now, it neatly changes into AK's, as it should be. Also, it would mean that you'd have to choose between AK and M16, whereas you can have both in GTA3.

I tried editing the MP5 entry in weapon.dat, and I can tell that it won't affect the gun being held with 1 or 2 hands, sprinting, and manual aim. If it were that simple, I'm sure someone would have done it long ago.

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#86

Posted 12 May 2006 - 06:36 AM

@Alex - Ah, ok. No problems.

Sounds like a fair deal to me - we'll see what happens. I'll see what can be done about chasing up our other PED converters, and what can be done with fixing the other issues (which all need to be addressed in time). I have an idea which I need to speak to Craig about before I can say anything else though ph34r.gif .

@Craig, Cole, Kon - I'm sure the weapons replacement was carefully thought out. If you'd like to have a play around with it, feel free to release some results at some stage, but I think a lot of the issues are hardcoded. Hopefully Hammer will be able to break through them with the launcher when he gets a chance. But altering the SFX is no problem - it's just a case of juggling the numbers around (which I can do if there's any troubles tounge.gif !). wink.gif

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#87

Posted 12 May 2006 - 01:52 PM

The problem with the SFX is a few guns share the same sound. So if you changed the mp5 to the Ruger's slot, then it must sound the same as the M16. If you change one, you change the other.

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#88

Posted 12 May 2006 - 05:15 PM

QUOTE (Konstantinos @ May 11 2006, 19:54)
I tried editing the MP5 entry in weapon.dat, and I can tell that it won't affect the gun being held with 1 or 2 hands, sprinting, and manual aim. If it were that simple, I'm sure someone would have done it long ago.

If i remember right there is a flag called heavy, have you tried addig it to the mp5?

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#89

Posted 13 May 2006 - 12:44 AM

@Bobesz - That could work, although it may give an effect similar to running with the minigun (where Claude's arms hang). It could be worth a shot though smile.gif .

@Craig - Ah, yeah, that's right. Didn't think of it like that blush.gif .

@Alex - Ok, I've spoken with Craig and he's ok'ed my plans, so I should have something up within the next 12 hours that'll hopefully push the completion/fixing of those issues you noted, as well as a few others.

Also, I'll try and get some testing done on those latest files tonight as well (it's 10:45am on Saturday here) because I've got some free time.

To save making another post, I'll be around a fair bit less indefinitely as my schooling now needs to take a higher priority than I previously gave it (got my test results back, and they were, well, not up to scratch - had to make a study timetable and sacrifice some time on GTAF and LC, but I'll still be here every few days wink.gif ). So, when I get some free time, I try and make the most of it smile.gif .

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#90

Posted 13 May 2006 - 12:15 PM

@Alex - Sorry mate, after my 4 hour marathon effort on the checklist, I'm way too tired to test that stuff for you now. Think I'm going to crawl into bed soon (it's only about 10:15pm down here, but I'm stuffed tounge.gif !).

I'll see how I go for time over the next few days - if that doesn't work out, I'll try and make some time next weekend icon14.gif .

If there's anymore updates before then, just email them to me - I will get around to it eventually wink.gif .




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