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[Official] Myriad Islands Train

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steve-m
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#61

Posted 09 November 2005 - 03:12 PM

Don't blame him. As said before, the most important thing at the moment is to plan the tracks for the Northern islands, since that is what holds everything up. The SW part of the tracks can always be refined/redesigned later.

Mark
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#62

Posted 09 November 2005 - 03:49 PM

Good point, I mean simple thing would be to just not allow anyone to have lots SW of that island til a later date, but still let out the rest of the northern islands. - GTAuron

BenMillard
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#63

Posted 09 November 2005 - 07:45 PM Edited by Cerbera, 11 November 2005 - 01:24 PM.

QUOTE (steve-m @ Nov 9 2005, 16:12)
Don't blame him. As said before, the most important thing at the moment is to plan the tracks for the Northern islands, since that is what holds everything up. The SW part of the tracks can always be refined/redesigned later.
The track route across the Northern islands which I made on October 16th seems to have general approval but the SW section is missing.

Without guidance from Respawn I can't be sure how serious the alterations to the railway route will need to be. If he insists on using the Eastern bridge then the illSTA idea has to be scrapped, the route could not travel up the East coast of illURB, the tunnel through Black Mesa would be different and there would be a knock-on effect through the rest of the route. If he insists on the Northern bridge then the route across illRES will need to have major changes to avoid a set of extremely sharp bends in the SW of that island. Respawn's lack of support is causing a big problem. sad.gif

The last thing I want is for the work of the railway builder to be scrapped because my designs were wrong. I need Respawn's help to create a route which includes Necrosis and to make sure big changes won't need to be made to the sections which get built.

I hope that the November 9th design would not require the October 16th route to be altered but it might cause big problems on Necrosis. The absence of Respawn's guidance means the whole route may need major changes. If that route doesn't cause major problems on Necrosis, then I would put it forward as the final route, although it needs height details yet.

I'm not sure what JasonB's view of this is.

JasonB
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#64

Posted 12 November 2005 - 02:46 AM

I'm going to have to agree with Cerb here, it is of great importance that Respawn can finalise a track to go through Necrosis, because we need to how it goes through Necrosis and how it will enter the island to know where the track will have to go through the other islands to be able to effectively connect to the Necrosis tracks.

If we make tracks for the northern islands then we find out that Respawn has set up tracks that enters from an unpredicted side of the island, it would make it difficult or maybe impossible to connect the tracks to Necrosis, and could look bad in the process.

That said, I in no way believe Respawn is purposely stalling us, in all likelihood he just hasn't had the time to think about it or plan the track through his island. Hopefully he will get back to us soon.

Knife
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#65

Posted 13 November 2005 - 10:01 AM

Am I right in saying the train track is underground on illcom. If it is couldn't illcom be released (just the base land) and people could start working on their lots again.

BenMillard
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#66

Posted 13 November 2005 - 01:00 PM

It's above ground, the station is on JasonB's docks in the South-east of the illCOM island. I described the route in detail on October 14th and in a few other posts below it on that page.

Knife
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#67

Posted 13 November 2005 - 01:39 PM

So it could be added in after a first release?

JasonB
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#68

Posted 14 November 2005 - 05:06 AM

illcom at present is not a problem, the problem is that Respawn hasn't gotten back to us on how he wants the train to traverse his island. We need that final piece of information till we can decide on how the track with leave the northern islands before entering Necrosis. Once we have that th track can be finalised and put onto the Northern Islands, at which point they can be released with illcom for SA.

Illspirit has previously indicated he does not want to release the northern islands for SA without tracks and presumably illy is holding off illcom to release it with the north islands.

Note that when they are released the train track will not be finished, the track over the ocean and illcom will need to be modelled, the Necrosis parts need to be modelled as well and will probably become available when Respawn finishes it. Presumably illSTA will need to be made aswell.

REspawn
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#69

Posted 14 November 2005 - 10:13 AM

Like i told Cerbera im in my final year of college and im running a business so my time is limited, im still working away on necrosis in my spare time, i was supposed to have the tracks layout for Cerbera last weekend but the plumbing in the shop exploded and i missed out on doing a college project aswell as not sending on the tracks layout.

As it stands the necrosis tracks come in through my lot by the necrosis bridge and illspirit and i talked about doing the same on the north island.
I already have the tracks 80% complete on the island, i have a small bit to finish off and i will finish them off tonigh and upload the link for u guys in the morning (15th Nov 05)

Sorry about the delay and lack of input these days but both myself and necrosis are still active,
-Dave

JasonB
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#70

Posted 14 November 2005 - 10:52 AM

Good to hear from you Respawn. The delays for the track plans are completely understandable, the things that caused delays are of higher importance. No need to apologise at all as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway good to hear you'll have your track layouts out so we can get Myriad rolling again after it's long delay.

BenMillard
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#71

Posted 14 November 2005 - 01:46 PM Edited by Cerbera, 14 November 2005 - 01:49 PM.

QUOTE (REspawn @ Nov 14 2005, 11:13)
Like i told Cerbera im in my final year of college and im running a business so my time is limited, im still working away on necrosis in my spare time, i was supposed to have the tracks layout for Cerbera last weekend but the plumbing in the shop exploded and i missed out on doing a college project aswell as not sending on the tracks layout.

As it stands the necrosis tracks come in through my lot by the necrosis bridge and illspirit and i talked about doing the same on the north island.
I already have the tracks 80% complete on the island, i have a small bit to finish off and i will finish them off tonigh and upload the link for u guys in the morning (15th Nov 05)

Sorry about the delay and lack of input these days but both myself and necrosis are still active,
  -Dave
When did you tell me that? It can't find it in in any of your Emails to me...

I've been watching your forum activity to see whether you really have been unable to get to a PC and you've been online quite regularly, every few days. Yet you have only now decided to spend all of two minutes actually telling people why you aren't active. Two minutes out of two weeks is all it took to let all the people interested in Myriad know what the score was. You've chosen not to do that when you've been on the forums before. Your previous post was in June; you've left everyone in the lurch over the past four months.

College and business work is more important than game modding, but keeping the other contributors informed of what you are doing doesn't take long. smile.gif

QUOTE (Email from Cerbera to Respawn @ Oct 19 2005,09:36)
Since the forums are down for the time being, I think the key is not to rush
anything.  Certainly don't make any more railway sections until JB and I can
understand the route you've already put together, otherwise there is a
chance your extra work will be wasted.  Which isn't what anyone wants.
There's no sense in continuing to make sections of track when it might not be possible to use them.

This is where you bridge meets illCOM:
user posted image
800 x 572, 74.4kB.

The entire Northern portion of illCOM is fully claimed for properties:
user posted image
1106 x 1038, 170kB.

Your bridge to illCOM means the route would require extremely sharp corners to get around the tall buildings of illCOM. The pavements of illCOM aren't wide enough to put supports for a bridge flyover. All the lots around there are already owned by other people. How is the railway supposed to get across from there? dontgetit.gif

REspawn
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#72

Posted 15 November 2005 - 12:20 PM

[B]Necrosis Island Train Tracks layout[B]

This is the layout of the train tracks for necrosis island, the download includes 2 3D Studio Max files (Version 7), textures and layout images as included in this post.
The first file "necrosis_track_sections.max" are 2 sections of track used to create the tracks for Necrosis Island, they both appear the same except one is a low poly model and the second is a high poly model, the high poly model should be used to create turns and such when modelling tracks.
The low poly file is best used for slow bends or straight sections.

user posted image

The second file "necrosis_train_tracks.max" is the full layout of the train tracks that run around the island, the track positions inside Necrosis Island are there near to final positions.
The track positions for the train stations on the east and north islands are fairly final but can be redone if needed to help ease the connection to the tracks running through the other islands, if this is needed please feel free to contact me and we can work this out.

The below diagram is a top down render of the "necrosis_train_tracks.max" file....
user posted image
The yellow line is the tracks as laid out
The red box on the north island with the number 1 beside it is the north island train station
The green box towards the bottom of the image with the number 2 beside it is the Necrosis Island train station
The orange box towards the bottom right of the image is the east island train station
The light blue box in the bottom left of the image with the number 4 beside it is a track termination point, the train will never take this curve and travel down the tracks past this point, the image below should make this more clear...
user posted image
The train will only ever take the curve highlighted in red
The light yellow box on the right of the image with the number 5 beside it is a section of the tracks that drops down to ground level due to an overpass
The blue box in the bottom right of the image with the number 6 is where the tracks dip down due to the bridge

In response to cerebra's questions, well im flexable, but before you go balming me for hloding up the entire project or asking questions like how are the tracks supposed to meet then you might think about asking yourself the question why didnt i contact REspawn about this before 3 weeks ago considering the the roads and the railway system for necrosis have been done for over a year.
Thats the last im gonna say in resposnse to the any of the above comments because i dont want to get drawn into yet another Cerbera brand post fight.
Im flexable with how the tracks meet up and i will do my best to help get everything smooth between the islands.
Check out the max files for a full layout of the tracks and my illcom lot.

Thatís about all you need to know really, if anyone has any questions then please post them or give me a pm or e-mail,
- Dave

Download nec_tracks.rar (949kb) Download Now

Please note that im away from this evening (15/11/05) until 17th so i probably wont be able to reply to any questions until then. - Dave

steve-m
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#73

Posted 15 November 2005 - 12:52 PM

Wow, these look awesome! wow.gif Just looked at the tracks in Max, the bends look very realistic, no where near as "extremely sharp" as Cerb wanted to make us believe. If course the trains have to be quite slow while passing Necrosis to avoid derailing, but it's not impossible. And probably the best possible concept as well, maybe even for illcom (although there's no median strip to build the supports on confused.gif ).

BenMillard
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#74

Posted 15 November 2005 - 01:23 PM

I don't have Max, so I can't get a proper look at the sharpness of the corners or the steepness of the underpass slopes. Sorry about bitching at you, Respawn. I was just worried that my designs were going to fail at including Necrosis. I hadn't seen that there was already a long-completed railway system on it before you Emailed me that picture of it. blush.gif

AleXXX
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#75

Posted 15 November 2005 - 04:33 PM

WOW. Nice work, dave.
I cant wait Necrosis.

illspirit
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#76

Posted 15 November 2005 - 05:58 PM

QUOTE (REspawn @ Nov 15 2005, 08:20)
then you might think about asking yourself the question why didnt i contact REspawn about this before 3 weeks ago considering the the roads and the railway system for necrosis have been done for over a year.

Zing!

But, yea, in light of what we now know about the sexy train tracks in Necrosis, maybe a rerouting is in order so as to connect?

Q/D

user posted image

Red is underground. Not red is not underground. The ground goes uphill somewhat steeply just to the NW of the T junction of the four and two lane roads. Train tracks could burrow straight through that or something.

Oh, and Spoony, don't forget to move all your stuff to match the new position. -600x, +1100y, and -6z.

Knife
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#77

Posted 15 November 2005 - 06:20 PM

@cerb & others w/o 3ds - I expoted the files to the .3ds file type that can be imported into zmod and other programs:

Download


AleXXX
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#78

Posted 15 November 2005 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE
@cerb & others w/o 3ds - I expoted the files to the .3ds file type that can be imported into zmod and other programs:

Download

Or download MODEL Viewer.
I use 3d exporation.

BenMillard
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#79

Posted 15 November 2005 - 07:56 PM

I had a really old version of Zmod (1.7 or something) which the files didn't open it. I installed that and downloaded Zmod 2 (build 698). They don't load in that, either.

CODE
ZModeler is ready.
Invalid file signature. file:OpenSaveService.cpp line:676
Is it a problem with the files or do I need to set stuff up?


I like ill's idea for the South of illRES railway route. If we have the railway exit from the crater wall in a slight cutting, there could be a level crossing over the first small road. The small road would be adjusted so the railway could run flat across it. The railway would then stay at about the same height but on an embankment as the ground falls away. It's a difference of about 15 units downwards from there to the highway.

The next road crossing could be a bridge, with the railway continuing on an embankment until the highway. There would be another bridge to get over the third small road, then it runs alongside the hightway. A flyover could be used for this stretch, with some buildings underneath.

Another bridge is required to get over the coast highway. An embankment might be best for this bit so that the railway station can be on solid ground instead of stilts. It would require some pretty severe earthworks but if it's done well then it could be a really cool landmark.

So, wtf am I blabbering on about? tounge.gif Hopefully this will help:
user posted image
1024 x 965, 205kB

Making the tunnel curve a bit more elegantly would be nicer to drive the train through. It also gives a more favourable angle to exit onto the southern stretch from.

Here's an elevation of the route, look from South-west illRES towards Black Mesa on North-east illURB:
user posted image
1367 x 206, 59.9kb.

The railway exits from the crater ridge at a Z height of about 30 units. By the time it reaches the bridge to Necrosis, it would be more like 15 units. That depends on the height of the railway on Necrosis, though. Railway bridges never have a gradient, so the exit from illRES should carry the railway to its flyover on Necrosis without changing height.


Looks like it could work as the Northern route to Necrosis?

Cran.
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#80

Posted 16 November 2005 - 08:28 AM

Import anyone?

user posted image

File>Import>Select a 3ds file.

Zmod will only open z3d files, and any others that are supported have to be imported wow.gif

I must say Dave, all this looks mighty impressive. Your work is still looking as good as ever, and I don't blame you for not releasing anything. Well all know Real Life responsisbilites are always over Internet work.

Keep up the good work, and everything looks too good! inlove.gif

BenMillard
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#81

Posted 16 November 2005 - 11:58 AM Edited by Cerbera, 16 November 2005 - 12:48 PM.

CODE
ZModeler is ready.
Missing filter for extension "3ds".
Guess I'll go hunt for that, then!

(EDIT) Looks like there isn't a .3DS filter for Zmod2, only for Zmod 1.07, lol. Better reinstall that, then.

(EDIT2) Installed it and opened the model. I can view the model in "Front" and "Right" and "Top" views but can't figure out how to move the "3D" view to see the model.

Knife
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#82

Posted 16 November 2005 - 06:11 PM

You probably need to zoom out. Or save as z3d and import into zmod2 as 3d view is much better.

Mark
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#83

Posted 16 November 2005 - 06:19 PM

Amen to that. Easiest way to zoom fast in Zmod1 is to hold the right hand mouse button in the 3d mode and move up to zoom in and down to zoom out. - GTAuron

BenMillard
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#84

Posted 16 November 2005 - 08:39 PM

I followed Knife's advice to save it as a .z3d and view it in Zmod2. Much easier to use the view in that. smile.gif

I've looked around and the railway seems to be at pretty much the same level throughout, which is very good news. There are loads of strangle wiggles in the route, though. The corners are way too sharp for a railway, especially in some of the chicanes the route wiggles through, but they aren't as bad as I thought they would be. Opening these out so they use a more sensible radius hopefully wouldn't be too much work. It would improve the realism of MI, making the environment more immersive. It would also improve the gameplay as you wouldn't have to bring the train down to such a crawl while driving the kilometer section across Necrosis.

Maybe something like this for the crossroad curves:
user posted image

The same curve would be on the other side but I havn't drawn it so you can still see the current curve. If the buildings on the inside of those corners won't come right out to the edge, the supports could be build in the corner of those lots which would increase the radius even more and provide a more believable structure. The current curves here can't have supports directly under the most stressed part of the corner, which makes them seem like they are hovering above the junction.

Doing something similar with the curves in the chicanes and removing some of the wiggles alongside the bridge to illCOM might also improve the route?

Mark
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#85

Posted 16 November 2005 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Nov 16 2005, 21:39)
The current curves here can't have supports directly under the most stressed part of the corner, which makes them seem like they are hovering above the junction.

LOL thats a good point...kinda wierd for such a load bearing point to be unsupported. - GTAuron

GT-1
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#86

Posted 17 November 2005 - 02:14 PM

QUOTE (steve-m @ Nov 15 2005, 12:52)
Wow, these look awesome! wow.gif Just looked at the tracks in Max, the bends look very realistic, no where near as "extremely sharp" as Cerb wanted to make us believe.

I agree with you about the bends. I mentioned this in my previous post, the whole point of games are that they entertain and give something to the user. Sometimes having everything perfectly realistic removes some of the entertainment. Indeed it may be a challenge to get round some of the corners on Necrosis but then its something to do rather than just pressing go with no hopes of falling off whatsoever.

Personally I think the tracks are fine, look at the in-game shot its really not that sharp and unrealistic. Plus yes it would be quite a bit of unnecessary work (in my opinion), where REspawn could be focussing and developing elsewhere.

The train is not going to make or break Myriad, don't get me wrong having one will be a nice addition. Will it be used as much as its been scrutinised Cerbera, the short answer is no. Your ideas are fine Cerbera, though I don't see much point in re-working a section which has little to no problems as it currently is. Thatís my opinion though, REspawn may be happy to re-work them, it just seems quite a bit of effort for little gain.

REspawn
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#87

Posted 17 November 2005 - 09:07 PM

Thanks for the comments guys.

I never did any testing on how the train would act on the curves, but i will give it a shot tommorow and post some pics of the results.
If the train is all over the place i can rework the junction to make it look cleaner, the other curves should be smooth enough but i will give them a lash aswell.

Thanks,
-Dave

AleXXX
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#88

Posted 20 November 2005 - 06:47 PM

Offtop:
Dave, when you upload Necrosis?

BenMillard
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#89

Posted 29 November 2005 - 05:58 PM

How did the testing go, Respawn? It's been over a week since you did the tests. The wiggles I was talking about were mainly as it went along the side of the bridge to illCOM, although the chicanes on the North-south road seem a bit excessive as well.

Something I forgot to mention earlier was the railway only seems to have one track all the way across Necrosis, between illRES and illCOM? With all those people in illRES and all those jobs in illCOM, it would make more sense for it to be two tracks wide. In a big, industrial area like Necrosis you'd expect there to be good train links so that passenger trains could get past freight trains, too. Two lanes also allows you to avoid being hit by trains when driving on it. tounge.gif

JasonB
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#90

Posted 28 December 2005 - 12:54 AM

Alright, we seriously need to get this thing back on its feet. Myriad is general seems to be dying, and this project is still holding back a proper release of the northern islands. Last time anything happened, there was discussion about the curves on the track for Necrosis and Respawn was supposed to be testing the viability of the curves on the trains (in my opinion, the curves look way too sharp, no train could be able to get around them, and if they could, speed would be reduced drastically). That said, we dont have the room for a completely realistic track, so sacrifices must be made, possibly a less extreme curve might be possible, but otherwise it will have to do.

Last time I checked, we had a viable plan for the track going along the east coast of illcom and upto the north-eastern island, and the north-west island track was waiting on the confirmation of respawns track layout so we could plan how the track will get to connect. We have that now, so there is no excuse as to why we cant finalise plans for the track and get building.

As for how the track will go from Necrosis to illcom, since there is a station on my Pacific Bay lot, it may be an idea just to have the track follow the outer highway down, meet up with the station then go out to sea, where it will stop at the illSTA island. This island also needs to be planned out, but at the moment it is secondary.

Hopefully if we get this going, we can breathe some new life into MI and get it going full speed again. Unlike what I said a month ago, I will update the first post soon with updated plans and whatnot.




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