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[Official] Myriad Islands Train

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BenMillard
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#31

Posted 06 October 2005 - 06:38 PM

Exactly what DieselGT said. smile.gif

mickarrow
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#32

Posted 06 October 2005 - 06:43 PM

ok, thanks for clearing that up. colgate.gif

Mark
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#33

Posted 06 October 2005 - 07:45 PM

I think its a little wierd that your design cerbera is suggesting you run a very large chunk of the railway over the sea, especially around illcom, i mean the easter side of illcome isn't really used at all and I'm sure if you just dip the railway in between the docks and the industrial estate you'll have a more believeable railway to which other lots along that side of the island could use to good measure. If not just tunnel under/over it etc, or even a crossing. - GTAuron

steve-m
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#34

Posted 06 October 2005 - 11:33 PM

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Oct 6 2005, 18:19)
Since the railway is being retro-fitted to the landscape, we must design it as though the city planners only added a railway when the settlements outgrew the road links.

Not necessarily. There are several examples in reality where settlements developed because of the railway, and later turned into big cities around it. And that's exactly what we would have on illnorth: railway first, buildings later, so we don't necessarily have to create an "illusion". Same for illcom - buildings are there already, so it would be more realistic to run the tracks around/underneath it.

BenMillard
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#35

Posted 08 October 2005 - 12:59 PM Edited by Cerbera, 08 October 2005 - 02:12 PM.

The problem is, Steve, that illCOM would not have become a busy commercial district before illURB and illRES were large centers of population. The railway must take a retro-fitted route since the entire area would need to have been built before the city needed a railway.

It's a bit confusing to explain this since there aren't any models on the new islands yet. However, if you imagine the way this city would have developed in reality, then you'll see how the entire area would need to be populated before a railway around it was required. If the area was not already built up then illCOM would not have all those buildings in the way. smile.gif

Therefore, I think the railway route we design should look like the islands were already quite populated when the railway was built.


(EDIT) I just noticed that in my previous design (1024 x 1024, 59.6kB) I was running a stretch of railway underneath the big bowl in illURB which is at a low level. This would require some sort of ramp or cutting to be present somewhere so it could exit from the bowl at ground level, therefore there would have to be a relatively steep slope in plain view. It would also mean that the sea crossing would have to be very low, so even small boats would have to wait for a moveable section of bridge so they could pass. blush.gif

I've changed how I think that area should be traversed:
user posted image
1024 x 1024, 59.6kB

The railway station would still be on the North-east corner of illURB. There would be a gentle slope into a cutting West of the station; there would be no slope inside the station itself. This slope would descend into a cutting. The cutting would become a tunnel as it curved South. There is an East-to-West road just South of the little cove/bay thing, so that could be where the railway entered a tunnel.

It would stay underground as it curved West but it now runs inside the high ridge around the bowl, rather than under the low center of the bowl. This would allow a long, gentle slope upwards which would not be obvious since it was underground. This slope would allow the railway to exit through the South wall of the ridge at a fairly high level onto an embankment, allowing a fairly high bridge across the sea to Necrosis. The railway could then descend as it went around/through Necrosis on a very gentle slope so that it would be at the correct level by the time it got back to illCOM.

(EDIT2) I've been researching what gradients real railways have on them. I knew that normal railways only had gentle slopes but the actual numbers have surprised me!

QUOTE (Freundeskreis Selketalbahn)
Driving downhill begins just as winding as the uphill drive. With each kilometer, which the train drives, it lost 25 m at height. This inclination is the steepest of the entire network of the HSB.

(Source - 9th paragraph of "Description" section.)
The steepest part of the German railway system only changes height by 25 meters each kilometer!

Mark
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#36

Posted 08 October 2005 - 07:33 PM

Well yeah, Though they usually do travel over rather hilly terrain, usually a big mixture of embankments and cut-throughs. A lot of work to build a railway... - GTAuron

illspirit
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#37

Posted 08 October 2005 - 11:45 PM

Okay, new coordinate offset is now -600x, +1100y, -6z, from what it was in VC.

And an updated render:

user posted image

Download the large version here. rar'ed 7.12MB. 3000px

Cran.
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#38

Posted 09 October 2005 - 02:53 AM

Just to throw in a quick idea here, it think it would be nice to see an overhead line the runs over the streets in some parts of illcom. Then it would go underground some how..

Kinda like the one in GTAIII

Knife
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#39

Posted 09 October 2005 - 10:28 AM

@illy - so are they final? Please say they are! How hard would it be for you to make new ipl's at this stage? They would be useful so I could continue with the mission script.

steve-m
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#40

Posted 09 October 2005 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Oct 8 2005, 14:59)
The problem is, Steve, that illCOM would not have become a busy commercial district before illURB and illRES were large centers of population.  The railway must take a retro-fitted route since the entire area would need to have been built before the city needed a railway.


You do have a point. But from what I understood, the Northern islands won't be "large centers of population" at all, especially illres will be rather low density. And since the buildings on illurb will all be quite small, in reality it'd be no big problem to build a track right through the populated area, by relocating a few families and tearing off their houses, if necessary.

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Oct 8 2005, 14:59)
I've changed how I think that area should be traversed:
user posted image
1024 x 1024, 59.6kB

The railway station would still be on the North-east corner of illURB.  There would be a gentle slope into a cutting West of the station; there would be no slope inside the station itself.  This slope would descend into a cutting.  The cutting would become a tunnel as it curved South.  There is an East-to-West road just South of the little cove/bay thing, so that could be where the railway entered a tunnel.


There are two problems with this design. The slope South and SE of that little bay is quite steep, maybe too steep for the track. Also, I have no idea how the track should run after leaving the West island heading East, the cliff is higher than on the East island, so again there'd have to be a too huge decline. A possible solution would be to keep the track underground and let it exit right through the cliffs in that bay, being continued at a level of about 15m along the cliffs, using a mix of tunnels and fancy wooden constructions.

user posted image

But I have no idea where to put the station then. Or, we leave the station there and put cuttings on boths sides of it, so in the East the track could decline and enter the East island through a tunnel in that canyon.

JasonB
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#41

Posted 09 October 2005 - 11:01 AM

I assume the strangeness in the Necrosis roads is due to the fact that they go underground or through buildings alot, not because Respawn randomly slapped sections of road everywhere.

Cerb, with your current idea of an elevated offshor track, theres a few problems, all involving my lots and work, incidently.I already mentioned this, but that path crosses my bridge, the track would've gone under the bridge, but my bridge isn't up terribly high (although i am going to raise it's height a bit, it still won't be all that elevated, unfortunately). And where the track goes down past southern illcom, it passes down by my 4 lots there, lots where I am modelling a set of docks. If the track does cross the docks it will be at the end of them, but likely it wont touch the docks at all, but it's just something to be wary about.

And I was thinking about how the track could interact with my island. The western side of it is fairly flat, so it may be possible to run the track in a mostly straight (a few minor corners, nothing major) route straight down the island.

Also with the northern islands I think it would be better if we could try and get the track to pass roughly through the centre of the islands, rather than at the northern extremes, this gives equal access to the nothern and southern halves of the islands. Doing this would be more tricky, especially with illRES, as it has that crater deally there, and if memory serves the centre of the islands is more bumpy, and a track going through Black mesa does sound cool.

Lastly, I think it is unreasonable for us to try and stick to an ultra realistic gradient for slopes on the train track, we simply dont have enough room to accomadate such a slow incline/decline in the track. I still think that we shouldn't go overboard in the height of the slopes like GTA3, we should still make the track look somewhat real, and yet still fun.

BenMillard
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#42

Posted 09 October 2005 - 12:15 PM

W00t, a massive render! tounge.gif

Steve, I was talking to illspirit about illRES and illURB and the general idea is for the high, North sections of both islands to be rich housing while the South sections are normal housing, maybe some blocks of flats here and there. There are a lot of businesses on illCOM and factories on Necrosis, so illRES and illURB would need to support large populations in order for there to be a big enough workforce. However, it is true that people could be re-housed and so I will design an alternative railway idea which uses a bit more of the land. Cuttings and embankments would create a lot of work for whoever makes the railway, but they will add some really cool landscaping to the islands. smile.gif

Oops, I didn't realise that there was a big slope South of the bay! However, I think that the railway could get below it if the station is set in a cutting, like you said. Instead of a cutting to the North and South of the railway station, I think that a retaining wall could be built down from the edge of the road so the station would fit. The cliffs would be destroyed so the station could sit on a big plateau (platform) cut into the North-east corner of the island, perhaps. The cliffs from the West would curve around so there was a cliff face to the West of the station and the railway would enter it via a tunnel. Once inside that tunnel, it could start curving South straight away to remain under fairly high land as it went towards the crater's ridge.

That would be one solution, but I am thinking that having the station up in the North-west of that island would be a bad idea. That's where illspirit thought one of the rich housing areas would be, so a railway would never get built through it.


Jason, how much of your illCOM docks have been made? The railway could take a much more gentle curve around the South-east corner of illCOM if it could use a flyover to get across your docks. Depending on what the nearby lots are doing, it might then be possible to have an elevated railway station somewhere near there to avoid the creation of a new island. The railway shouldn't run to the seaward side of a big dockland because the ships would be blocked off by it, lol.

If your suspension bridge isn't high up enough for a railway to squeeze through underneath, it is probably too low to be a suspension bridge. Low bridges would use legs set into the sea bed, like the bridges in GTAVC. If we keep the illSTA idea and your island moves further East, this suspension bridge could be more like the GTA3 bridge between Portland and Staunton with ramps leading on and off it, a long span, quite a lot of height and a definite arch. It would become a real feature. smile.gif

I agree that a comprimise between the steepness used in GTA3 and that used in reality. The problem is that because railways are such massive structures, any slight slope they have becomes very obvious. If we use slightly steeper than normal slopes, there is a good chance it will end up looking like a rollercoaster - something that parts of the GTASA railway suffer from.

I also agree that a serious design for a route which runs more centrally through the northern islands would be worth trying.

BenMillard
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#43

Posted 13 October 2005 - 12:24 PM Edited by Cerbera, 13 October 2005 - 05:20 PM.

Sorry for the bump but JasonB and I just had a very productive MSN conversation. smile.gif

We think that the best solution of illCOM will use two railway stations, one of them on a new island:-
  1. There will be a fairly small, raised station on JasonB's South-east illCOM docklands. This will be a bit like Portland. The railway will exit from the South-east of his docks, then curve over the sea torwards the North.
  2. A new island called illSTA will be created to the East of illCOM. JB's island will move (much?) further East and his bridge will become longer, bigger and higher to allow the railway underneath it. A bridge will link illSTA to illCOM and a sophisticated underground road will link illSTA to JB's island.
The Shape of illSTA
The island would be a man-made oval - a rectangle with a semi-circle on the North and South ends. The island would be tilted slightly clockwise, so that the railway would head North by North-east over it. The railway would run across the long middle section of the island on an embankment. There would be a tunnel through the embankment for the minor road and maybe some extra tunnels pedestrian.

On the South-West side would be a ground-level carpark with the freeway running along the West edge and around the North-west corner. On the East side would be restaurants, shops, a small picnic area with the minor road weaving between them. There might be one or two tourist things like a boat house giving rides around the Northern islands, maybe a helipad for tourist trips as well.

The overal size of illSTA would be determined by the length of the longest train and the radius of a comfortable semi-circle for freeway driving. I expect it would be a similar size to illSUB but without the beach areas and a bit narrower.


The illCOM Bridge
This will be a four-lane bridge running from a junction on the East section of illCOM four-lane road. The bridge would curve towards the North and would not be flat, a bit like the GTAVC bridge on the East coast of Starfish Island. It would arrive at the South end of the Western edge, curving to run parallel with the edge. There would be a traffic light junction for a minor two-lane road which would run across the illSTA island to the East section.


The illSTA Underground Freeway
JB's island will be linked to illSTA by an ambitious underground freeway. JB's island already has an underground bypass running from the North to the South, so the illSTA tunnel would connect to this. However, the junction would connect to the East side of the bypass and then curve in a big loop anticlockwise (counterclockwise) towards the North and around to the West. During this loop it would descend gradually to be low enough to get underneath the sea bed. You don't want to see a massive freeway tunnel running through the sea when you're diving! smile.gif

It would exit from the North-west of JB's island (not too far North, though) and approach illSTA from the East. It would arrive directly in line with North semi-circle but a few meters inside the curve. The reason that illSTA is an oval is because the underground road will spiral upwards inside of the oval shape. This prevents the need for steep slopes and hairpin corners to get from underneath the sea bed all the way up to the illSTA ground level.

Now, here's the cool part. The inside of this spiral will have the multistorey, underground carpark for the railway station. The spiral will be in its own tunnel and the car park will be set quite far inside it. It would not extend into the inner parts of the curves so that some elevators and some stairs could run through here.

Each level of the car park would be the same for all sections; it would not be split like the Washington Mall carp park in GTAVC. Halfway along the East and West straights of the freeway spiral, there would be a flat section with a road leading into that level of the car park. The spiral would rise by one level each time it completely half a circuit to prevent the road being extremely long and will allow it to use a taller tunnel than the park levels. I think there would be five to ten levels of the car park.

The road emerges onto ground level as it curves around the North of the island. The railway embankment might need some fancy shaping so that the road can still have a fairly gentle slope to reach the incoming freeway. The slope would run all the way around the North-west corner and some way along the West edge.


Summary
Because the engineering for illSTA is very advanced and complicated, I would recommend that a very experienced and reliable modeller creates it. Someone with a great deal of experience, free time and who has good attention to detail. Only the base land of illSTA and the island would need to be created before it could be prelit by Steve-M and illspirit, after the entire railway has been built. The underground parts could be built after the land has gone through this process.

I have faintened the main map render and fiddled with the colours so it printed out green land with black roads on a white sea. I'll gently scribble on it in pencil over the next week or two so I can get the shape of the new island and the new bridge sorted out. Does anyone owning a lot on the East of Myriad want to make way for the bridge to illSTA? smile.gif

Mark
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#44

Posted 13 October 2005 - 02:52 PM

RAWR! I must say I really like that idea, all of it biggrin.gif . Sounds cooooooooool smile.gif - GTAuron

Cran.
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#45

Posted 13 October 2005 - 04:44 PM

Wow guys, this sounds great! You guys must have had a HUGE conversation on MSN, must have been the reason why Jason wasn't talking much, lol wink.gif

steve-m
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#46

Posted 13 October 2005 - 09:58 PM

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Oct 13 2005, 14:24)
over the next week or two

Cerb, it's fine that you're trying to do it as perfect as possible, but making tons of high quality maps and plans doesn't help much, since it isn't built after an original island, so whether the layout is up to your imagination or that of the person who models it doesn't matter much, and the latter would certainly be much faster. This railway is being discussed since months, we don't have the time to sketch and discuss every millimeter of it. The Northern Islands are finished since weeks, people are waiting for it, so we really have to get the tracks done ASAP.

Your "illSTA" island isn't connected to the main land, right? If yes, we don't have to plan and model it right now, since it doesn't cast shadows or influences the other islands somehow, so it could be prelighted separately (with the same lighting settings). Also, I doubt someone started working on importing and optimizing the illcom lots already, what's very time-consuming, so we'd only prelight and release illurb and illres anyway. That means planning and building the tracks on those 2 islands has the highest priority for now, illcom/illsta can wait, IMHO.

Mark
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#47

Posted 13 October 2005 - 10:19 PM

if thats the case can't one person (or maybe a team of people) crack on with getting the rails done in the 2 northern islands and someone else can work on illSTA either at the same time or a bit later in the future? After all it doesn't need to be just one person. Most of illSTA can be made without laying the track down thus the track made by the author of the rails in the northern islands can be added later, meaning the rails are identical all the way though. As long as who models it knows where it's meant to go, as it can just be chucked onto the island later. - GTAuron

BenMillard
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#48

Posted 14 October 2005 - 10:34 AM Edited by Cerbera, 14 October 2005 - 12:14 PM.

Steve, the only way to know how the railway will connect into the Northern islands is to plan the route for illCOM. If we run the railway through a nice route on the Northern islands only to find there's no way to connect it sensibly to illCOM, all that work will be wasted. I was being pessimistic about the timescale for the plans, I drew out a new approach for the illCOM-illURB islands last night, incorporating illSTA. smile.gif

You're right about the prelighting, though. Now that I know the schedule is focused on the Northern islands more than the Southern islands, I won't bother planning the inside of illSTA or any surface details yet. Running the railway up the East coast of illURB was illspirit's idea and I think it makes more sense. If this approach route is alright, I'll design a new route across the Northern islands from this entrance line, starting with a curved tunnel through Black Mesa.

The railway runs pretty straight off the East coast of illCOM so that the exact position of illSTA can move up or down. This is because I'm not sure which the bridge from illCOM to illSTA will use on illCOM. It would have an effect on the illCOM land lighting, so that would need to be sorted out before illCOM can be lit up. I've drawn illSTA on a North-south axis because it was too difficult drawing it with the slight NNE rotation. blush.gif


Anyway, here's the new idea:
user posted image
1500 x 1500, 221kB.

The freeway of illSTA could be the other way around, so that the bridge to illCOM went to a North-eastern lot instead of an Eastern lot. This would spread the two bridges out a bit, which would be more realistic since two big bridges next to each other would cause gridlock. I'm not sure if there are any free lots in the North-east of illCOM, though.

The railway curves into the South-east of illCOM, where JB's docklands are. It will run over the top of them on a flyover like the flat parts of Portland in GTA3 have. There will be a fairly small, raised platform like there is outside the Portland safehouse. I've added the island names on to make it easier to understand what parts are what...I hope I got them right!

(EDIT) I tried to download the Northern islands from the GTAVC Alpha Release but the link failed. If I could download those islands I would be able to fly around them in MooMapper or KeD to get a really good feel for the shapes of the land. Cuttings and embankments would be nice features but they shouldn't be at silly heights or depths.

JasonB
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#49

Posted 14 October 2005 - 11:48 AM

Cerb and I have been discussing this over MSN, and we have come to agree over how the rail will go on the southern islands. Basically what Cerb has already outlined here will be the path the track takes, unless someone has a serious objection, but from the general reaction everyone seems happy with it. Once we get a few things finalised for these islands we will discuss and draw up plans for the northern islands, and hopefully with Respawns input we can create a viable path to cut through Necrosis. Although I was hoping for the track to actually cross through my island, and the heartland of illcom, I feel we have accomplished something, that when finished, will be one of the highlights and key points of Myriad.

When we get to the construction of the track, who will actually be doing it? I assume illy will be handling the northern islands and Respawn would want to handle things on his end, but who will be doing the trackwork (and the modelling of illSTA)? Since I have to model a station for my Pacific Bay lot it might be easier for me if I were to design the track, but who wants to tackle illSTA. I would, but I still have a lot of things that need to be done. Whoever does it will have to follow the plans pretty well, and also make sure the island can properly accomodate the track as well as the tunnel coming from my island.

Perhaps we could even divide illSTA into a few small lots, so that people can build shops and stuff on it. One person could create the base land, and then the surface would be carved up into small sections (barring the actual platforms and ticket booths and such) and then a lot of people could contribute a bit to the construction of illSTA.

Now the balls really started rolling fellas, lets get too it.

Knife
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#50

Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:47 PM

Could we give illSTA a better name straight away. Maby the person who makes the baseland can just give it any name they like biggrin.gif

Mark
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#51

Posted 14 October 2005 - 03:58 PM

cockface island biggrin.gif ...wha? You no like? Well I guess I'm not making it tounge.gif lol.

I got summin else in the pipeline so I cannae help out lol. (I always say that but turn up with nothing cause summin always goes wrong! lol)
- GTAuron

Cran.
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#52

Posted 14 October 2005 - 04:12 PM

I'd volenteer to help out with illSTA, but I don't think i'm quite good enough, lol. Great plains guys, but wouldn't it be better for Jason's island to be positioned under illCOM and Necrosis, and then the track could bend over to his island. It could either just have one stop at the docks, or it could go though the center or it.

user posted image

BenMillard
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#53

Posted 14 October 2005 - 06:23 PM

He wants a big GTA3-like bridge to his island, so it would need to be a long way to the South, East or South-East. That would still make it difficult for the railway to get at because it would need to do a huge curve from Necrosis across the sea to JB's island, then a huge curve to get around to illCOM. The only lots he has control over in the South are for his docks, so a bridge could not meet the land there anyway as it would block the ships from using the docks. smile.gif

It would be nice to include his island in the railway but it is not absolutely necessary, imho. His island could be like the island where illCOM expanded to after it got too big for that island, after the railway was built.

Knife
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#54

Posted 15 October 2005 - 09:36 AM

So when the train tracks are done do we get a release? And where is Respawn?

JasonB
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#55

Posted 15 October 2005 - 10:23 AM

Again, Cerb is right. Apart from moving my island down south being a pain in the ass, it wouldn't really help the train anyway. The track would need to make 2 big curves to get onto and away from my island, and my island isn't exactly suited for that sort of thing, namely because my island is hilly and covered in large buildings, not exactly the greatest terrain to be building an over-head track. And moving my island gets rid of the opportunity for the cool underground freeway tunnel thing.
Plus Myriad has moved all across the workable area on SA because of my island, and I don't want to annoy illy and Steve and such by saying I want to move my island somewhere else now. I'm confident that my island won't be moving anytime soon.

@Knife:
I think the plan is for the tracks to be built onto the northern islands, and then they will be released for the SA engine, then illcom gets tracks and it gets released. I think thats the general plan.

BenMillard
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#56

Posted 16 October 2005 - 12:26 PM Edited by Cerbera, 17 October 2005 - 11:31 AM.

JB, that's the order of events as I understand them, too.

I think I've figured out a route which includes all the features we want in the Northern stretch of the railway:
user posted image
1500 x 1500, 241kB.

Basically, these are the things I've tried to accomplish:-
  1. No steep slopes by using tunnels, cuttings and embankments.
  2. No sharp turns or unecessary wibbles.
  3. A couple of road crossings will allow level crossings, tunnels and/or bridges.
  4. Long, curved tunnel through Black Mesa.
  5. Long, curved tunnel through the illRES crater.
  6. Ground-level railway up the East coast of illURB.
  7. Straight section of railway between illCOM and illURB for a swing bridge. This allows shipping access to docks inside the railway route.
  8. South-west section of illRES railway can be curved to approach Necrosis from any required angle.
  9. South-west section of illURB railway can be curved to approach Necrosis from any required angle.
  10. The illSTA island can be flipped vertically to use a North-west or South-west approach from illCOM.
  11. Two railway stations serving illCOM.
  12. A railway station indirectly serving JB's island via the underground freeway.
  13. Several potential locations for Northern railway stations:-
    1. East coast of illURB.
    2. Immediatley South-west of Black Mesa.
    3. South of the illURB freeway.
    4. East of illRES
    5. Inside the illRES crater wall, like a subway.


Details of Northern Route
The illSTA island will be rotated slightly clockwise when actually built to ensure the railway is straight. The island might be made wider to allow for gentler curves on the underground freeway and more buildings on the surface. It may be made longer for more buildings, too.

The railway approaches from the South-east of illURB, running at ground level along its East coast. It will use slight embankments and cuttings to get through the undulations. It enters a tunnel to the South-east of the Black Mesa mountain and this curves around to the West. The tunnel exits from the West side of Black Mesa and passes under or over the road. A small railway station could be built here for tourists visiting the mountain, perhaps.

The railway then heads South-west, going over or under the freeway and curving to the West. A large railway station could be built somewhere on this section. The railway passes over a slightly curved bridge onto the East coast of illRES. A station could be built to the South of the railway here. As the railway heads West towards the crater, it will go into a slowly deepening cutting which becomes a tunnel inside the crater wall.

The railway curves to the South-west, passing underneath the road which runs on top of the crater wall. An semi-underground railway station could be built here with the car park and primary access coming from inside the crater, South-east of the freeway. There could be pedestrian tunnels exiting from the South-east face of the crater all. There could be stairs and an elevator allowing access to the top of the crater; another tourist attraction.

I have not drawn the way the railway will cross the South-west of illRES. It could curve South and run down the West coast of Necrosis, or it could curve more and run along the North coast instead. It could even curve to an angle in between these extremes and run across the Necrosis mainland if a sensible route is available. We really need Respawn's input on this part of the design as he's the only guy with a good idea of what stuff is/will be where on the the Necrosis island.


Time to Build It?
If the Northern plan seems alright, someone could start work on the East coast. I would hope that illspirit does it himself. I think he's the only moddeler who has the experience, the attention to detail and sufficient knowledge about the landscape of Myriad Islands to do it justice. Steve-M shares a lot of that as well, so either man would be a good choice imho.

GT-1
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#57

Posted 16 October 2005 - 12:54 PM

Whilst I agree that a train would be a nice addition to Myriad there are a few things that have caught my attention throughout this discussion. Will the complexity of the ideas/planning amount to the same satisfaction/amusement you would get from using the railway?

The ideas are all there but some things with Myriad have become too complex and interest has been lost down the line. It would be a shame to see this happen with the current set of ideas. How well would the road crossings work in Myriad? SA is fairly flat and large in scale compared to Myriad which gives them a fair bit of room for the track to run at road level.

You would have problems with the track running around the southern edge of illcom from the map you posted. There are already a couple of lots down there where a railway would not fit. It would be difficult to fit the railway in with the dynamics of the lots which are currently placed there.

Overall I like the concepts discussed, just try not to make the railway too complex when there are possibly other areas of more importance yet to be created. It will be a nice addition when/if finished though.

BenMillard
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#58

Posted 23 October 2005 - 10:03 AM

Complexity of planning cannot be compared to amusement in the game, really. However, if you add up the amount of time each person has spent on planning, it will be a tiny fraction of amount how long all the players will spend seeing or using the railway in-game. It will be a major feature of Myriad Islands, so it should be done well and look believable. The embankments, cuttings, tunnels and bridges will add variety to the landscape and provide locations for stunts.

It should be pretty high speed when you are driving the trains. The curves around South-east illCOM will provide an exciting challenge to avoid derailing into the ocean, though. tounge.gif


I have been speaking with Respawn via Email while the forums were down, discussing how the route could traverse Necrosis. He had already made some railway sections but never made the plans public, so I'm not sure how much of what he's made could be used.

He put together this image to roughly show where his existing railway sections are:
user posted image
1500 x 1500, 245kB.

The railway appears to do a pin sharp, right angle turn in the middle of Necrosis. It joins onto illCOM and illRES at points where it would be difficult (perhaps impossible) to run a railway across those islands - particularly for illCOM. He has not completed the coastline of this island, so an unhappy alternative might be to run the railway around the outside of Necrosis. The central railway system could be turned into an overgrown and derelict freight track, perhaps.

The good news is that his road network hasn't changed since the render illspirit made which all the MI Train plans have been based on. smile.gif

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#59

Posted 03 November 2005 - 11:51 AM Edited by Cerbera, 05 November 2005 - 05:39 PM.

QUOTE (PM and Email from Cerbera to Respawn @ Oct 17 2005, 12:38)
QUOTE (Email from Respawn @ Oct 19 2005, 09:19)
QUOTE (Email from Cerbera @ Oct 19 2005, 09:36)
QUOTE (Email from Respawn @ Oct 19 2005, 17:09)
Hey Respawn,

I am working with JasonB to plan out a route for the Myriad Islands Railway:
http://www.gtaforums...howtopic=217843

We have gradually developed a decent route for all the main islands apart from Necrosis.  We really need your help in finding a route across or around your island. :-)

regards,
Ben "Cerbera" Millard and Jason "JasonB" Blockley
Hey Cerbera,
I already have some track layed down for Necrosis so i can finish off
whats left of it and send it onto you next monday if you want, i had planned
to have 3 train stations, one on Necrosis, one on my lot in MI and the last
on the north island where the NI - Necrosis connecting bridge is.
Let me know what you think and i can get that to you for monday,
-Dave
Hi Respawn,

Since the official railway plan is what JasonB and I have been working on
(it has illspirit's support) it is a bit of a problem that you've been
creating railway sections on your own already. The railway affects all the
islands, not just yours, so we'll have to find a route which allows the
current plan to be used without destroying everything you've already set out
on Necrosis.

Since the forums are down for the time being, I think the key is not to rush
anything. Certainly don't make any more railway sections until JB and I can
understand the route you've already put together, otherwise there is a
chance your extra work will be wasted. Which isn't what anyone wants.

The most recent draft of the route plan is available from my website:
http://projectcerber...way/idea-04.jpg
(1500 x 1500, 241kB)

Since we weren't sure quite how the railway would traverse Necrosis, the
routes to it from South-west illRES and South-west illCOM are quite
flexible. Hopefully you won't have to rebuild or scrap much of what you've
done. That's always the risk when you make stuff in a team project which
affects other people's lots without publishing your plans. :-(

If you could draw the sections of railway track, landscape and stations
which you've already made onto that image, that would be a great help in
figuring out a way to use as much of it as possible. Feel free to create
some extra images with ideas for joining your track into that plan, but the
image JB and I need most is the one with only the railway stuff you've
already built.

Oh, has your road network changed at all since that image? Drawing on any
road changes to Necrosis would be a great help and adding the coastline
would, too. Do you have MSN/Windows Messenger? :-)

Ben "Cerbera" Millard
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://projectcerbera.com
http://sitesurgeon.co.uk
Hey,
the road layout is the exact same, i have attached a map with a very
sh*tty ms paint overlay of whats what.
The red in necrosis is the track thats inplace and in the game, me and
illspirt did some messing with the paths what must be nearly a year ago and
decided to add some train tracks.
The track dead ends at the yellow dot and this is because in the game the
tracks will be under construction because i needed to cover up some hard
coded escalators.

Coast line hasent been done for the island yet but i know almost what its
gonna be like so i can send that along with the train tracks in a max scene
to you over the weekend.

If theres anything else you need let me know,
-Dave
That weekend would have been Oct 19-20, 2005. Respawn still hasn't gotten back to me with this scene or sent any messages to me. If he doesn't show up to help, we'll just have a draw the route ourselves and he'll have to alter Necrosis to suit it. I hope it doesn't come to that, though. I've sent him another PM and Email

(EDIT)
QUOTE (PM and Email from Cerbera @ Nov 03, 11:53)
Hi Respawn,

The forums have been back online for about a week now.  The thread for the
MI railway is here:
http://www.gtaforums...dpost&p=3295466

I havn't recieved the Max scene you said you'd create.  Without your
cooperation on the design, the railway route cannot be finalised.  Without a
final design it can't be built, which means the land can't be prelit.  The
whole project is held up because we don't know where on Necrosis we can run
a sensible railway route. :-(

Ben "Cerbera" Millard
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://projectcerbera.com
http://sitesurgeon.co.uk
Sent as a PM and an Email. All times and dates are UK.

(EDIT) Message Tracker for the forum PM system says Respawn read this PM on November 3rd. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what his is doing. dontgetit.gif

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#60

Posted 09 November 2005 - 02:36 PM

I've still recieved no word from Respawn. I guess that means he wants us to design a route around his island without his help. It would only haven taken a minute to let people know what's happening but he's simply ignoring MI at the moment. He has made his choice and he'll just have to scrap whatever gets in the way.
user posted image
1500 x 1500, 246kB.

I assume that the hairpin in the North-west of his island will be at a sufficiently different level to the railway. Running the railway on the coastland means there could be a freight terminal on one side (probably the West) and a passenger station on another site (probably the South). The railway would run close to road level...hopefully.

Not how I wanted things to turn out but Respawn has stopped the MI projects in its tracks (if you'll excuse the pun). It's not fair on all the other members for one person to hold everything up like this, so he'll have to deal with the consequences.




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