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(Cancelled) GTASA Handling Overhaul

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BenMillard
  • BenMillard

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#1

Posted 17 August 2005 - 09:05 PM Edited by Delfi, 12 February 2006 - 01:38 PM.

GTASA Handling Overhaul

Introduction
You may be familiar with my GTA3 Handling Overhaul and GTAVC Handling Overhaul projects which I finally completed earlier this year after years of work. In GTA3 there are 58 vehicles, in GTAVC there are 107 and in GTASA there are 207. Obviously this means rewriting all the handling in GTASA will be a massive task.

On top of the increased number of vehicles, my discovery of a reliable technique to simulate realistic acceleration means that each car takes a lot more testing. This handling overhaul will have an unprecendented degree of realism since the GTASA physics and handling engine is so much more refined and flexible than previous editions.

I am only using my CFG Studio to create and develop handling. Notepad is obsolete! colgate.gif


Current Version: 2005-09-07
CODE
BANSHEE 1600 3000 1.3 0.0 0.00 -0.10 -1 0.83 0.65 0.49 5 280 26.0 80 R P 4.5 0.60 0 34.0 1.40 0.175 5.0 0.30 -0.10 0.5 0.2 0.15 0 45000 2004 1204003 1 1 1
BULLET 1200.0 2500 1.0 0.0 0.20 -0.20 -1 0.83 0.70 0.45 5 290 21.0 100 R P 4.5 0.60 0 30.0 1.0 0.13 5.0 0.25 -0.10 0.45 0.2 0.15 0 105000 c0002004 1200000 0 0 1
CHEETAH 1200.0 3000 1.0 0.0 0.30 -0.20 -1 0.90 0.85 0.45 5 290 21.0 100 R P 4.7 0.60 0 35.0 0.8 0.20 0.0 0.10 -0.10 0.5 0.3 0.40 0 105000 c0002004 1208000 0 0 1
COMET 1400.0 2200 1.3 0.0 0.10 -0.20 -1 0.78 0.70 0.49 5 280 26.0 80 4 P 4.7 0.60 0 30.0 1.4 0.14 3.0 0.28 -0.10 0.5 0.2 0.25 0 35000 40000800 1000000 1 1 19
INFERNUS 1350 2500 1.0 0.0 0.30 -0.25 -1 0.78 0.70 0.50 5 290 21.0 100 R P 4.7 0.60 0 30.0 1.05 0.140 5.0 0.25 -0.10 0.5 0.2 0.37 0 95000 40002004 1404003 2 2 1
TURISMO 1000 1500 1.0 0.0 0.20 -0.25 -1 0.90 0.85 0.40 5 335 29.0 100 R P 5.0 0.60 0 30.0 1.00 0.125 5.0 0.10 -0.15 0.5 0.5 0.17 0 95000 40112004 1408403 1 1 1
ELEGY 1500 3500 1.1 0.0 0.25 -0.10 -1 0.78 0.70 0.50 5 270 19.0 100 4 P 4.3 0.65 0 35.0 1.0 0.20 2.0 0.28 -0.10 0.5 0.1 0.25 0 35000 40002804 5000001 1 1 1
EUROS 1450 3500 1.1 0.0 0.20 -0.10 -1 0.78 0.70 0.48 5 265 17.0 100 R P 4.2 0.65 0 30.0 1.2 0.15 2.0 0.30 -0.10 0.5 0.1 0.25 0 35000 40002804 1004401 1 1 0
JESTER 1500 3500 1.1 0.0 0.20 -0.05 -1 0.78 0.70 0.48 5 285 19.0 100 R P 4.3 0.65 0 30.0 1.1 0.10 2.0 0.28 -0.15 0.5 0.1 0.25 0 35000 40002804 5000001 1 1 1
SUPERGT 1700 3500 1.2 0.0 0.20 -0.10 -1 0.78 0.70 0.50 5 260 18.0 100 4 P 4.2 0.65 0 30.0 1.0 0.20 2.0 0.25 -0.10 0.5 0.1 0.40 0 105000 40002004 1208001 0 0 1
SULTAN 1300 3500 1.2 0.0 0.20 -0.10 -1 0.78 0.70 0.50 5 255 17.0 100 4 P 4.4 0.65 0 30.0 1.35 0.170 2.0 0.30 -0.15 0.5 0.1 0.25 0 35000 2000 5000001 1 1 0
ZR350 1350 3500 1.1 0.0 0.20 -0.10 -1 0.78 0.70 0.48 5 280 18.0 100 R P 4.3 0.65 0 30.0 1.2 0.10 2.0 0.31 -0.15 0.5 0.1 0.24 0 45000 0 1400001 1 1 0
TAXI 1650 4000 1.5 0.0 0.30 0.20 -1 0.65 0.65 0.50 5 170 12.0 80 F P 3.5 0.70 0 35.0 1.00 0.125 0.0 0.25 -0.15 0.5 0.50 0.2 0 20000 240000 1000000 0 1 0
At the moment I'm getting these vehicles to have realistic 0-60 times and top speeds with generic traction, suspension and braking. Make sure you replace the correct handling! I recommend copying and pasting the handling one line at a time. If you are using CFG Studio, you can use the Edit > Move Row Up/Down menu items to rearrange your handling file so that these lines are at the top in this order.

The acceleration curve has to become horizontal very progressively for realism but the standard acceleration is the inverse of this. Using the DragMultiplier and EngineInteria settings, the curve can be manipulated. It's just a case of finding the right balance between them, the EngineAcceleration and TopSpeed. The realistic acceleration is only possible when the USE_MAXSPD_LIMIT feature of HandlingFlags is ticked..


Features
  • Completely re-worked acceleration with the USE_MAXSPD_LIMIT flag to make it more progressive. 0-60mph times are pretty close, as are the 0-100mph times.
  • Top speeds match real performance. Turismo just about reaches 200mph if you run it for long enough. Banshee gets about 160mph and the Infernus gets around 170mph.
  • Reduced traction settings and changed traction bias to better reflect real performance.
  • New spring and damper settings to reflect vehicle roadhoalding.
  • Adjusted ride height and suspension travel so that Turismo and Banshee don't look like off-road trucks any more.
  • Mass is now closer to the real vehicle settings.
  • Braking retuned so that tyres do not stop turning when brakes are applied. If you brake while turning the car will skid a little as the tyres lose grip. Careful use of braking and turning allows for drifting into corners like in serious racing simulators.
These handling lines are not perfect. It's somewhere between Need for Speed 2 in Simulation mode and Gran Turismo 2 in the career mode (not arcade). It's about as good as you can get in GTASA, from what I have found.

To get the highest top speeds, drive North from Los Santos International Airport over Mulholland Intersection, across The Mako Span and all the way to the end of Harry Gold Parkway in Las Venturas. R* setups always reach top speed in about 10 seconds, these cars will still be accelerating slightly after a whole minute. Reduced traffic is cheat THGLOJ. All traffic are fast cars is GUSNHDE. Very useful when testing handling.

Vehicles which are saved in garages sometimes do not get updated when you change their handling. You might have to steal or spawn a new instance of that model to test the new handling for it.

(EDIT) I am basing my judgements about what the real-world vehicles would be on the GTASA Real Life Car List by FORDSUCKS along with my own opinions of the base vehicles. I am using Gran Turismo 2 to get an idea for how these vehicles should acceleration, brake and handle.

coolcraigd
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#2

Posted 17 August 2005 - 09:44 PM

hey cerb nice to know your making this mod again!!.

can you explain to me what the DragMultiplier and EngineInteria stats do please? as im currently making a few lines myself. so far i have made a mclaren slr. a toyota supra. skyline. and a MUCH faster NRG. and i just want to know more about stats really.

Hey-Dude
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#3

Posted 17 August 2005 - 10:54 PM

check his site; http://projectcerber...definition.html


@ cerbera, nice to see this. can't wait for lines for my favorite cars smile.gif

AirCooled
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#4

Posted 17 August 2005 - 11:45 PM Edited by AirCooled, 18 August 2005 - 12:16 AM.

Wow, looks really detailed after looking at the above link. I guess you weren't joking about that 2008 thing. You should post lines as you finish them, less wait for those like me who are impatient. The concept sounds good. I will check the above lines to see what i think. Good luck with the project!

Edit - Tried out the infernus and banshee and honestly found them a little bit sluggish. I understand that realism is the goal here, but it may be at the expensive of playabilty (and i am a fna of realism, don't get me wrong). I suppose it's just because the new handling is so far removed from R* it will take a little getting used to

Rollies77
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#5

Posted 18 August 2005 - 05:46 PM

I test it with banshee. It cut down the acceleration. But that's just makes it more realistic. And the drifts, and the weight, suspensions and all, are awesome. I've never driven the real car, but as you said, it's like driving in nfs. Way better in simulating cars performance. Can't wait for the rest of the script. rah.gif

maxtryue
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#6

Posted 21 August 2005 - 05:21 PM

what about bike acceleration?

DemolitionMan™
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#7

Posted 21 August 2005 - 05:38 PM

Wow great very realistic. Like in NFS. The only thing that needs fixing is the sounds. The cars sounds like it's going 100 km/h when driving 20 km/h

TheDude5000
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#8

Posted 21 August 2005 - 05:43 PM

Interesting project, has promise... but 2008 dude?! We will have most likely have 2 next gen GTA's in our hands by then! Terminator 4 will have been in theaters(and it probably wont suck!) The live action Transformers movie will be released, and probably even a next gen GameBoy (not including that Micro or NDS)!

Hey-Dude
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#9

Posted 21 August 2005 - 08:52 PM

like you could do better? prove me wrong and do your own realistic handling overhaul that is as in-depth as Cerbs'.

123abc
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#10

Posted 21 August 2005 - 08:57 PM

Would you mind sharing the ratio on which you use to modify the accaleration and top speed?

BenMillard
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#11

Posted 22 August 2005 - 03:59 PM

I have added a new setup for the Sultan (looks like a Subaru Impreza) and the Taxi. The handling for the Sultan is based on playing with the 1992 Subaru Impreza in Gran Turismo 2 but it accelerates a bit faster. The handling for the Taxi is based on movies, logical deduction from footage of other big old cars and testing old vehicles in GT2.

There are a lot of lists which try to match the GTASA vehicles to real-world ones but most of them are rubbish. Is there a topic or website where a really good list is being created or has already been made?

QUOTE (maxtryue @ Aug 21 2005, 18:21)
what about bike acceleration?
I intend to overhaul all land vehicles. Air and sea vehicles will probably not be changed or will be changed after all the land vehicles have been done. Motorbikes (including the quad) will be part of this overhaul but bicycles might not be changed.

QUOTE (DemolitionMan @ Aug 21 2005, 18:38)
Wow great very realistic. Like in NFS. The only thing that needs fixing is the sounds. The cars sounds like it's going 100 km/h when driving 20 km/h
Unfortunately the way the sounds work is hardcoded. The engine sounds have practically no relationship to vehicle speed; the same is true of GTA3 and GTAVC. In GTA1 and GTA2 the engine sounds and gear changes were related directly to speed and acceleration but in the 3D editions the engine sounds are not dynamic. Bit of a technological leap backwards. sad.gif

QUOTE (TheDude5000 @ Aug 21 2005, 18:43)
Interesting project, has promise... but 2008 dude?! We will have most likely have 2 next gen GTA's in our hands by then! Terminator 4 will have been in theaters(and it probably wont suck!) The live action Transformers movie will be released, and probably even a next gen GameBoy (not including that Micro or NDS)!
Actually, the next generation of GTA games will be on portable devices like the PSP, such as Liberty City Stories. The next generation of console/PC games in the GTA series probably won't be for a few years. Also, I will be doing the handling of the most frequently used vehicles first and releasing each handling line as soon as I complete it. This means that all the cars people tend to use a lot should be completed much sooner, probably in 2006. All the trucks, vans crappy cars and weird vehicles will be done after that.

There are already a few lines in the first post to try out, so it is not like you will have to wait three years until you can try out any new handling lines. smile.gif

QUOTE (123abc @ Aug 21 2005, 21:57)
Would you mind sharing the ratio on which you use to modify the accaleration and top speed?
I already have written a basic guide to realistic accelerationin GTASA which I linked to in the first post. I intend to write a full, step-by-step guide to creating realistic acceleration and handling in GTASA. It will be a bit like my GTA3 Moonbeam Trials. I might write a guides to this, each concentrating on a different type of car.

maxtryue
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#12

Posted 23 August 2005 - 11:56 AM

biggrin.gif

XDeathX
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#13

Posted 24 August 2005 - 05:46 PM

QUOTE
Actually, the next generation of GTA games will be on portable devices like the PSP, such as Liberty City Stories. The next generation of console/PC games in the GTA series probably won't be for a few years. Also, I will be doing the handling of the most frequently used vehicles first and releasing each handling line as soon as I complete it. This means that all the cars people tend to use a lot should be completed much sooner, probably in 2006. All the trucks, vans crappy cars and weird vehicles will be done after that.

There are already a few lines in the first post to try out, so it is not like you will have to wait three years until you can try out any new handling lines.


And what website made you come to this outragous conclusion? Or is it just a stupid theory made by you.

SeaNorris.
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#14

Posted 24 August 2005 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE (XDeathX @ Aug 24 2005, 18:46)
QUOTE
Actually, the next generation of GTA games will be on portable devices like the PSP, such as Liberty City Stories. The next generation of console/PC games in the GTA series probably won't be for a few years. Also, I will be doing the handling of the most frequently used vehicles first and releasing each handling line as soon as I complete it. This means that all the cars people tend to use a lot should be completed much sooner, probably in 2006. All the trucks, vans crappy cars and weird vehicles will be done after that.

There are already a few lines in the first post to try out, so it is not like you will have to wait three years until you can try out any new handling lines.


And what website made you come to this outragous conclusion? Or is it just a stupid theory made by you.

You won't see the next GTA until PS3 and XBOX360, so he is right. rampage_ani.gif

XDeathX
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#15

Posted 25 August 2005 - 06:31 PM

But Xbox 360 is coming out this year and the PS3 is coming out this year and he said a few years, not 1 or 2.

SeaNorris.
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#16

Posted 25 August 2005 - 07:53 PM

QUOTE (XDeathX @ Aug 25 2005, 19:31)
But Xbox 360 is coming out this year and the PS3 is coming out this year and he said a few years, not 1 or 2.

You really think RockStar will make the next GTA for 2006, then you are wrong. rampage_ani.gif

Dazla
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#17

Posted 26 August 2005 - 01:16 AM

Could certainly be end of 2006. The release of PS3 and christmas would have every Rockstar North guy working 24/7 for the sales bonus tounge.gif

greddy5643
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#18

Posted 27 August 2005 - 03:09 AM

i'm sure it will be in early to mid 2007 maybe fall like the last few gta releases.

back on topic. wow i cant wait until this is finished. if you need or want help i'm sure there are many people who would love to help with this (as for me, i'm more of a mission coder. tounge.gif). i would suggest if you do have people help you that you test them to see if they are as good as you. then again, i dont like too much help with my mods.
(i'll release most at one time.)


just a suggestion.

Kuro
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#19

Posted 27 August 2005 - 10:53 AM

With each new car setup im more happy smile.gif I tested the taxi and sultan. When driving taxi i had feeling like i was back in time playing interstate 76 because of the way i was driving and switching lanes and passing those cars. It feels like in movies biggrin.gif As for the sultan, what can i say, its been a long time since i played gt2, but the feeling does ring a bell. Cant wait for new setups biggrin.gif

greddy5643
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#20

Posted 28 August 2005 - 02:03 AM

i tested the turismo, and it's nice to see that 232 (MPH) on the screen.

i can't wait to see what you'll do with the planes, becaus the hydra in game only goes 187, shouldn't it go around 730+...

about how long does it take you to finish each vehicle?

BenMillard
  • BenMillard

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#21

Posted 28 August 2005 - 11:31 AM Edited by Cerbera, 28 August 2005 - 11:34 AM.

At the moment I am working on all the early 1990's sports cars from Japan. I tend to work on several cars at once so I can tweak them relative to each other, make updates to previous setups and so on. I expect these current setups will get small changes made to them for a year or two yet! However, they probably won't change much from how they are now. It generally takes a week or two from starting a handling line to getting it good enough for me to release it.

I tried making the Hydra acheive a higher top speed but couldn't manage it. High acceleration, top speed, USE_MAXSPD_LIMIT enabled or disabled, even tried fiddling with the special flight data but I couldn't figure out a way for it to get a high top speed. It might be a hardcoded limit, although in GTA3 the Dodo could get well over 200mph if you flew it close to sea level. It's something I will look into but at the moment my focus is on the Japanese sports cars.

I am using GT2 and credible websites to try and get a reasonable match for the 0-60 times, the top speed and the handling. Since there are no actual gear changes in GTASA it's a bit of a comprimise since the 0-60 times for these vehicles require changing from first to second in reality, which takes time. Therefore my 0-60 times are a little bit faster so that it seems like CJ can do extremely fast gear changes. tounge.gif

Mark
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#22

Posted 29 August 2005 - 05:38 PM

McDonnell Douglas AV-8B Harrier II Max Speed: 665 mph.

And thats at altitude. Near the ground I'd say you'll be looking at about....500ish, to keep the aircraft still sane enough for SA.
GTAuron

greddy5643
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#23

Posted 02 September 2005 - 01:10 AM

well, close enough, lol.


offtopic::

i live (or lived) in biloxi MS. most of you know that that was one of the hardest places hit. i was smart enough to evacuate, but i don't know if i have a home. this is the first time i've gotten to a computer with internet access in days, (i dont get macs cryani.gif ).


good luck with the completion cerbera it'll be another few hours at least before i can get back on the web.

BenMillard
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#24

Posted 07 September 2005 - 12:17 PM

I've added a load more vehicles to the opening post, mainly Japanese sports cars. The new lines still need refinement but they are slowly coming together.

I havn't tested any more with planes and probably won't do so. Experimenting with special data is very time consuming so I'll leave it to other people who aren't as busy.

BenMillard
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#25

Posted 14 September 2005 - 03:05 PM

I didn't realise that I had been stuck on the Japanese sports cars for over two weeks already! With the recent restyling of Project Cerbera and my experiments into alternative acceleration techniques, I havn't actually been making any releasable handling. GT2 has been providing me with a really good feel of how the cars should behave in GTASA and I've got lots of timings and top speed measurements from it to work from.

I've added the current drafts of the Japanese sports cars to the first post. Feedback would be appreciated, even though my progress isn't exactly rapid.

greddy5643
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#26

Posted 18 September 2005 - 05:41 AM

nice, making good progress, maybe not 2008 after all rah.gif

BenMillard
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#27

Posted 24 September 2005 - 05:02 PM Edited by Cerbera, 24 September 2005 - 08:14 PM.

I am currently giving the content of my site richer formatting by highlighting code samples and setting names. I am also revising some of the old content, fixing some of the many typos and generally tidying things up. In addition to this, I am working with other modders on understanding the capabilities of the GTASA advanced handling mode, which is a very complicated process. It will probably take a month or two for me to fully understand it, so there isn't much point in me doing any more to these setups until I know what I'm doing.

CODE
INFERNUS 900 1500 0 0.0 0.10 -0.60 -1 2.50 2.50 0.40 5 1000 75 5 4 P 15.0 0.60 0 30.0 1.05 0.140 5.0 0.25 -0.10 0.5 0.2 0.37 0 95000 40002004 1004001 2 2 1
I keep getting lots of requests from people wanting super-ultra-mega-fast setups which can still go around corners and don't glitch the game. If you want one, try this. smile.gif

user posted image
800 x 600, 32.6kB.

Mark
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#28

Posted 24 September 2005 - 11:04 PM

LOL! is that 840 I read on the clock? tounge.gif geez thats....quick tounge.gif - GTAuron

SeaNorris.
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#29

Posted 25 September 2005 - 12:57 AM

*Uses on the Ferrari by Auron*

w00t, oh so fast tounge.gif

SEEJAY123
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#30

Posted 25 September 2005 - 06:17 PM

Yea dude this is all great and stuff but can you remove the blur? Yuky, blurry blurry when you go fast? and since you mentioned mass, I assume if you are going 200 mph you will not slow down when you hit some body on the sidewalk? I'm also aware of the quality you put into this mod but 2008 seems a wee bit out there, 2007 maybe? Good luck, this is a good one.




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