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[Official|REL] illres, illurb, and Black Mesa

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mickarrow
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#121

Posted 18 August 2005 - 07:55 PM

Well, I'm still working on my plaza, wich has a bit grown in size. It's becoming more of a small town-center. And there's thecircus I was working on as well.

here's the pic I showed on page 4 in this topic:

user posted image

If it gets to Myriad I was thinking that the plaza could be like a small town in San An. You know. Not surrounded by big skyscrapers.
Now for the circus I thought a good location would be way out of any city. More like in some deserted agrarian zone. Between weed-fields or grass plains. This to give the feeling that it's a travelling circus instead of a permanent one.
The circus is as good as done, some weeks work left. But the plaza/town-center has still some trivial parts to be filled. Don't know how long that'll take.

Anywayz, that's my contribution for now...

--Cole--
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#122

Posted 18 August 2005 - 08:50 PM

I think there should be legitamite zoning in the new islands. The old Myriad had towering office buildings across the street from the suburbs, and you just don't see that in a real city. Or even Vice City. Should you have a nuclear power plant next door to your house? Neither should Myriad.

All pre-planned developments (like Myriad) have 3 basic types of zoning- Residential, Commercial, and Industrial. These are further split into low, medium, and high density.

Myriad should have real zoning restrictions, based on neigbourhood layout (grid pattern roads = financial district, cul-de-sac = suburbs, etc.) and proximity to the center of each island (skyscrapers in the center, suburbs in the outskirts).

This would mean that to build on a lot it has to fit the lot's zoning restrictions. Really, its not a hinderance to development or anything, just claim a lot in the zoned district you want to build in. All in all, it sets a clear path for Myriad Islands' growth and development.

Adriantm
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#123

Posted 18 August 2005 - 09:11 PM

are there will be a new builidng releases for gta-vc engine ?




Soryy for my english blush.gif

Knife
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#124

Posted 19 August 2005 - 08:57 AM

There will not be any more building releases for Vice City.


@steve-m - I want a nice flat lot which I can put some commercial buildings on ect...

user posted image


I had that idea in the PPT but illy told me that island would probably be residential.

steve-m
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#125

Posted 19 August 2005 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (Knife @ Aug 19 2005, 10:57)
I had that idea in the PPT but illy told me that island would probably be residential.

Yea, and it's still going to be like that. Left islands will be residential and right one urban, so no high buildings at all, that's what illcom is for. We also want some areas to be pure countrysite, maybe only with small huts or farms (i think the area N/NW/SW of the crater would be perfect).

Also, if we want some sort of train/monorail track, shouldn't we plan that before splitting?

mickarrow
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#126

Posted 19 August 2005 - 04:59 PM

I guess the only solution is to make a complete railroad track, and then split it up with the lots. People'll have to work around these, but it's easier then laying a track when there're allready lot releases.

AleXXX
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#127

Posted 20 August 2005 - 09:05 AM

I count, we should build up all illcom before make lots for North Island...

JasonB
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#128

Posted 20 August 2005 - 09:11 AM

I definately think we should put a monorail track in myriad, trains are so awesome and it would add a great feature to the city.

I also have another thought on trains, and that is a subway. Methinks we should build a subway that runs through the high density areas on Myriad, that is under illcom, my island and perhaps Necrosis and if any more high density islands are developed have it run though there.
My reasoning for this system is because inner city areas are congested with traffic, and the road setup for illcom isn't very traffic friendly, so a fast transport system through high density areas only seems like a good, effective way to carry people through a city. Plus a subway doesn't take up much space on the surface, merely a small entrance in a number of places, and I could probably fit the entrances on my lots alone for illcom. Just for the record, if a subway does go ahead, I would like to develop it smile.gif

Also, concerning zoning the top left island countryside, we have to be careful about doing so. I know it is designed to be low-density, but we still have to keep any kind of serious commercial or industrial presence away from farms or houses that are spread far apart. The farms or whatever should be confined to the top left quater of the island, which includes the crater.

That's my 2 cents.

Knife
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#129

Posted 20 August 2005 - 09:47 AM Edited by Knife, 20 August 2005 - 10:43 AM.

If there is countryside we will have to work in a few dirt tracks ect. Which will work quite nicely. It's got to be intresting though, we don't want the countryside to feel like a boring space which no one could be botherd to work on. As for a no skyscraper zone thats ok. I have a few mini buildings that I have been working on that are very like illspirits buildings.


The only thing I will say is won't it feel a bit wierd having a whole island that just has houses ect? I think the residential area need a few shops just to make it more realistic.


As for completing illcom...
http://img400.images...myriadn18pp.gif
The highlited lots are the lots I have never seen progress for. The myriad rules say you must show progress and you only have 4 months to complete your lots. Hmmm

JasonB
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#130

Posted 20 August 2005 - 10:19 AM

Knife, you probably should have picked a more upto date map, that map is way off.
We really need an update of the official map, but SR is going to be gone for awhile. Maybe we should get a new lot admin.

Also, the 4 month deadline is seldomly enforced. I have had my illsub lots for more than 4 months and I still have ownership of the. But then again, I have in the past released a number of lots, so I guess continuing developers dont have their lots removed.

Knife
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#131

Posted 20 August 2005 - 10:42 AM

I still haven't seen anything of those lots though. From anyone. At the moment it seems impossible to get a lot because of SR not being around. Is there anyone else who actually know what lot belongs to who?

GT-1
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#132

Posted 20 August 2005 - 11:44 AM

For anyone who wanted a little go of the base land's only of the north islands and illcom + illsub, you can download this package.

Just a few comments here:
  • This is NOT a complete release, and is NOT a base to work from for future major releases.
  • This does not include any lots/vehicles/weapons whatsoever.
  • It was created a couple of months back by me just as a general perspective of the base land in the SA engine.
  • The pre-lighting is incorrect and looks odd against the illnorth islands.
  • It probably still has the water.dat from Steve's Map Cleaner so if you fall into the water you probably can't get back onto any islands.
  • Old col format which is why there are darkness issues.
  • Various other things, follow the instructions given, it's easy to install. It has problems so don't complain.
  • I gave Gforce this package, so he may have created an edited version or a new package. Either way they are probably the same/very similar.
Why release it then? People can use it as a base to create lots on, so it's mainly for any developers but anyone can try it. For anyone who had a previous release, I don't think anything has changed since. Maybe someone else will have a go at doing something... I'm hoping this is the right file that was uploaded since I picked it kind of randomly.

Disclaimer
Install this at your own risk, if it causes any system problems, corrupted files, death etc. then only yourself can be help responsible. smile.gif

Download Link

Knife
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#133

Posted 20 August 2005 - 11:56 AM Edited by Knife, 20 August 2005 - 12:00 PM.

Do you fall through the ground in unexpected places? Is it lowerd six units? I have been using G-Forces one

Meh, i'll find out soon

GT-1
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#134

Posted 20 August 2005 - 11:59 AM

All col files should be present and correct, there may be a couple of pieces on the illnorth islands that are missing, because when those islands were released they were outside the limits. They should be able to be unchecked in the ide files though, not certain there though. But otherwise the cols are present I believe.

mickarrow
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#135

Posted 20 August 2005 - 12:24 PM

Nice, I haven't had the time yet to get any of MI in SA. thank you.


As for the subway that was mentioned, I like the idea but I see a few problems.
- I thought there was going to be a sewer system. Now I don't know if that's still in development, but if it is, you don't know how it's going to run. There's no layout shown to the public. This might cause overlapping with a subway system. Maybe something could be worked out between each project. Maybe integration of subway into sewer or the other way around would be nice.
- Is it possible to have both a train and a subway? I don't know anything about coding. I only know that SA has a train, no subway.
- If both the sewer and a subway were being made, me thinks it would be best if it could be like an interior, that only loads when you enter it. Otherwise we would have quite a polyloss when just walking on the island.


Also: I like the idea that illcom should be finished first before anyone starts releasing lots for the northern islands.

Knife
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#136

Posted 20 August 2005 - 12:34 PM

I think all trains should stau underground because if we try and fit one in above ground it won't look right. We just need a simple track and some stations.

Gforce
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#137

Posted 20 August 2005 - 05:47 PM Edited by Gforce, 20 August 2005 - 05:54 PM.

i have enough work done and in the design stage to populate the area's outlined in red, i have 12 different house designs in 4 different colours which equates to 48 different houses using them only once, they could easily be used more than once, so far i have just completed house design number 6 (350 triangles). i will post some screens in the PPT soon, if i can use the entire area outlined it will include a basketball court and a vert ramp or 2 amongst other things, but i dont want to give too much away atm.

user posted image

as for those trains idea's i think that all sections that include a piece of the rail network should be seperate from any of the lots, that way the modeling and lighting stays correct and only needs to be done once,the same idea could apply to all the roads not including the curbs obviously, although in the residential sections of SA R* didn't even bother to lower the curbs around the entrances to houses.

edit: @GT-1 you sent me your package 1 day too late, i already converted the files by then and they are in RW3.4. yes i have a pack together and no it uses none of your files and my gta.dat,map files,ide/ipl numbering are constructed and numbered completely differently tounge2.gif

steve-m
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#138

Posted 20 August 2005 - 09:48 PM

QUOTE (Gforce @ Aug 20 2005, 19:47)
edit: @GT-1 you sent me your package 1 day too late, i already converted the files by then and they are in RW3.4. yes i have a pack together and no it uses none of your files and my gta.dat,map files,ide/ipl numbering are constructed and numbered completely differently tounge2.gif

Are you guys talking of just the empty base land, or completely with buildings and all?

Gforce
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#139

Posted 21 August 2005 - 12:59 AM Edited by Gforce, 21 August 2005 - 01:05 PM.

QUOTE (steve-m @ Aug 20 2005, 21:48)
QUOTE (Gforce @ Aug 20 2005, 19:47)
edit: @GT-1 you sent me your package 1 day too late, i already converted the files by then and they are in RW3.4. yes i have a pack together and no it uses none of your files and my gta.dat,map files,ide/ipl numbering  are constructed and numbered completely differently  tounge2.gif

Are you guys talking of just the empty base land, or completely with buildings and all?

yes, no lots or missions.


JasonB
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#140

Posted 21 August 2005 - 03:31 AM

QUOTE (Knife @ Aug 20 2005, 22:34)
I think all trains should stau underground because if we try and fit one in above ground it won't look right. We just need a simple track and some stations.

I think Myriad could easily acomodate an overhead train, and overhead trains look cool too. I loved the train that runs over Portland in GTA3.

QUOTE

- I thought there was going to be a sewer system. Now I don't know if that's still in development, but if it is, you don't know how it's going to run. There's no layout shown to the public. This might cause overlapping with a subway system. Maybe something could be worked out between each project. Maybe integration of subway into sewer or the other way around would be nice.
- Is it possible to have both a train and a subway? I don't know anything about coding. I only know that SA has a train, no subway.
- If both the sewer and a subway were being made, me thinks it would be best if it could be like an interior, that only loads when you enter it. Otherwise we would have quite a polyloss when just walking on the island.


Actually, a subway couldn't be very high poly, the sections of track dont need much detail, just enough to look like a real subway track.
Conflict with the sewer and the subway would be easy to avoid, you just have one at a lower distance then the other and just make sure any entrances with the 2 dont collide with pipes/tracks.
I am unsure if you can have 2 trains running in SA, but a quick peek in the data/paths folder shows a train.dat and a train2.dat, as well as a lot of node data and a few tracks files. So hopefully it is possible to have 2 trains running.
Also, having the subway as an interior might be a bit iffy, as entrances to subway stations are usually large, not just a door. But I believe the sewer was intended to be made as an interior.

Another problem I just thought of regarding 2 trains, how do we keep the monorail train off of the subway track and vice versa. In SA there is the Brown Streak train and the freight train, perhaps it is possible to confine one of these trains to one track.

Knife
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#141

Posted 21 August 2005 - 10:40 AM

For a trial we could 'steal' the GTA III subway and modify it to fit our needs.

How hard is it to convert lots. It would be very useful if someone could convert DK Enterprises (one object) for my missions because everythings a bit messy at the mo.

steve-m
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#142

Posted 21 August 2005 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE (JasonB @ Aug 21 2005, 05:31)
Another problem I just thought of regarding 2 trains, how do we keep the monorail train off of the subway track and vice versa. In SA there is the Brown Streak train and the freight train, perhaps it is possible to confine one of these trains to one track.

You forgot the SF tram! So it must be possible to attach special vehicles to certain train tracks.

Yea, a subway might be the best solution, since it wouldn't conflict with any lots. Also a overhead train/monorail could be added later, since we'll mainly have low buildings anyway.

@Knife: As for lot conversion, dunno, might be best to import everything we have so far into Max, fix any bugs and do some optimizing, then prelight everything with the same settings as illnorth, and export everything again, properly grouped by area (not a separate ide/ipl for each lot), and reassign new ID#s. Also, txd files need reorganization, with help of txdp we can now put all default textures into an extra txd archive, so we don't have duplicates and waste of space/ressources anymore.

Oh, and a another question, what is the highest ID# used by the generic stuff in a cleaned SA map, how many ID#s will we need for illcom/illsub, and at which ID# shall the illnorth objects start?

JasonB
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#143

Posted 22 August 2005 - 06:31 AM

Silly me, how could I forget the SF Tram, that's what the other train.dat would be for (unless I am totally mistaken). So we can easily have 2 train tracks running at the same time, however the tram is not enterable, and only ever consists of 1 or 2 carriages at the most. Hopefully none of this is hardcoded. I'd imagine that getting it to be enterable shouldn't be overly difficult.

As for subway entrances, I recommend using 2 of my lots, illcom_c5_r3/illcom_c6_r4/illcom_c7_r4 (all of these would make a good spot) and illcom_c6_r10. c5_r3/c6_r4/c7_r4 would be good as it is right in the city centre, a place where people really need to get to/away from. c5_r3 is a little crowded so I could make some room near the museum or something.
c6_r10 would also be ideal, as you have quite a large amount of medium density buildings, such as NRon, Massivesoft and all of Little Tokyo (which i hope will be finished soon), and my upgrades to pacific bay would also create alot of eJobs, and people would need to get there.
Again, I would like to reitterate my eagerness for the subway, and if it is to go ahead, I would like the opportunity to build it.

AleXXX
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#144

Posted 22 August 2005 - 04:05 PM

About my lot...
I shall let out it when to appear enough of tools for change SA and will leave illcom for SA. For VC I shall not let out!
Now I am engaged modelling of different buildings then to create LARGE lot.

Cran.
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#145

Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:30 PM

Sorry to bump, but I have an idea on the train thing-o. Instead of either having a overhead train or a underground one, why not have it both ways! Think about it, and parts of town (Such as downtown etc.) the train could be an overhead train, and then when the train goes over to illres it could all go into a tunnel underground and it could be a underground train! Think about it.

Don't mind my grammar, it's that time of the night.

Mark
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#146

Posted 08 September 2005 - 03:53 PM

Well one way or another, the 2 train lines must at least meet somewhere. I dunno about in other countries, but in the UK, the underground and overground trains fit around each other, some stations are pure overground in London, some are pure underground, but a lot of them are both (Mainly the big ones like London Victoria, London Waterloo, London Bridge etc etc). So We COULD have a large station lot somewhere north on illcom, with trains leading overground about the city (maybe above the roads to cause less disruption, lots of overground trains in London almost have a mono-rail feel about em), on the ground round illres and illurb, and an underground part attached to this station for an underground system for illcom, with loads of other stations everywhere. Seems a bit more realistic than having an over and underground train doing the same thing. - GTAuron

Knife
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#147

Posted 08 September 2005 - 03:58 PM

If it's overground it needs to fit properly and not look like it's been put in late because otherwise it will stick out like an old man with a group of chrildren (I had to compair it with something). I am currently with the underground idea.

steve-m
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#148

Posted 08 September 2005 - 06:04 PM

Best would be to build the tracks on the empty islands, before they are released, so we can prelight it properly (with shadows from tracks) and people would know where high buildings aren't possible. But that won't happen I guess...

Cran.
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#149

Posted 09 September 2005 - 01:07 AM

QUOTE (GTAuron @ Sep 9 2005, 02:23)
Well one way or another, the 2 train lines must at least meet somewhere. I dunno about in other countries, but in the UK, the underground and overground trains fit around each other, some stations are pure overground in London, some are pure underground, but a lot of them are both (Mainly the big ones like London Victoria, London Waterloo, London Bridge etc etc). So We COULD have a large station lot somewhere north on illcom, with trains leading overground about the city (maybe above the roads to cause less disruption, lots of overground trains in London almost have a mono-rail feel about em), on the ground round illres and illurb, and an underground part attached to this station for an underground system for illcom, with loads of other stations everywhere. Seems a bit more realistic than having an over and underground train doing the same thing. - GTAuron

That's what I meant to say, I was in one of those late night things, you understand tounge.gif

JasonB
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#150

Posted 09 September 2005 - 05:56 AM

I am still heavily in favor of 2 train tracks, one over-head (may go down on the ground in low density areas) track which goes around all of Myriad with stops in convenient places.

The second track is a subway line, which goes to the high density inner city areas, such as illcom, my island and perhaps Necrosis if necessary. The purpose of this track is to better accomdate travel through heavily congested inner city areas, stopping in places where people need to get to, but the main line doesn't stop at.

For example you have the monorail (or whatever) stop in northern illcom, but not southern illcom, people will need a better way of getting there, and the subway connects these areas. That is just an example, and it would be logical for the monorail to stop in north and south illcom.

But the subway would not goto low density, sub-urban areas, as it would be redundant.

Sydney, has a system similar to this, there are the main train lines which go into Sydney, and then there is the ultra overpriced monorail line, which goes to places the main train doesn't, which would be convenient if it weren't so expensive.

That way you have overground and underground, and they are not redundant.




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