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San Andreas Xbox Trailer Public Download

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DigitalD
  • DigitalD

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#1

Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:20 AM

Following on from news yesterday about the first Xbox trailer release, we contacted Rockstar about getting a public download of the trailer. The official Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Xbox site has been updated and the trailer is available in a variety of different sizes and formats in the media section.

Direct Links: Quicktime High / Low. Windows Media High / Low.

davew2040
  • davew2040

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#2

Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:33 AM

On top of things as always!

Regarding the content of the video... There's some slow-down that worries me a little, and the car reflections also seem kinda "soft" and pale. Almost not as good as the reflections in the PS2 version. Don't know what to make of that, but I'm willing to withhold judgment until the game is out.

What I *really* want to know is whether the PC version will use mipmaps correctly!

illspirit
  • illspirit

    lycanthroplasty

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#3

Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:01 AM

Mipmaps should work this time. I seem to remember reading/hearing somewhere that they used them more now. They were allegedly also on the old PS2 version, though, it's impossible to tell with such low resolution assets/output. Even if they don't though, shimmering wouldn't be as bad given the more agressive LOD system. With the second and third detail levels now streaming (rather than swapping mid and low details only when loading islands), the second tier assets can be drawn at closer ranges with more detail. As such, the main things to worry about are high contrast lined textures like bricks, but those can be dodgy up close too. Unless of course they've fixed it so the engine doesn't totally ignore AF this time. tounge2.gif

Skyline_man
  • Skyline_man

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#4

Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:14 AM

nice, i will download the high quality one, can you plz ask them when will we be getting a PC trailer ???, plzzzzzzzzzzzzzz inlove.gif

davew2040
  • davew2040

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#5

Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:26 AM

QUOTE (illspirit @ May 18 2005, 01:01)
Mipmaps should work this time. I seem to remember reading/hearing somewhere that they used them more now. They were allegedly also on the old PS2 version, though, it's impossible to tell with such low resolution assets/output. Even if they don't though, shimmering wouldn't be as bad given the more agressive LOD system. With the second and third detail levels now streaming (rather than swapping mid and low details only when loading islands), the second tier assets can be drawn at closer ranges with more detail. As such, the main things to worry about are high contrast lined textures like bricks, but those can be dodgy up close too. Unless of course they've fixed it so the engine doesn't totally ignore AF this time. tounge2.gif

It's really obvious looking at the newer Xbox shots that no mipmapping is used:

http://www.gamespot....ns.html?page=12

Look at the floor and other stuff in the distance, and notice the really bad moire patterns. I don't know if a lack of mip-mapping is common in Xbox games, though.

I can't see it so clearly in the PC shots, but there are some things that indicate it to me. I see lots of stair-stepping patterns in the rooftops, for example, and that's usually an indication that the filtering is bad. Unfortunately, since it's only really obvious when the game is in motion, I just don't know.

RCagent
  • RCagent

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#6

Posted 18 May 2005 - 02:47 AM

Mind me asking, but what exactly are mipmaps?

davew2040
  • davew2040

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#7

Posted 18 May 2005 - 03:04 AM Edited by davew2040, 18 May 2005 - 03:14 AM.

QUOTE (RCagent @ May 18 2005, 02:47)
Mind me asking, but what exactly are mipmaps?

A mip map is basically a low-resolution version of a texture. Usually in games, ranging as far back as GLquake, when a texture is loaded several lower resolution textures are also loaded; a 256x256 texture might also load a 128x128 texture, a 64x64 texture, and so on. Then, as a polygon gets farther from the viewer, the color value at every pixel in the polygon is read from one of the lower resolution textures instead of the high-resolution one. Bilinear, trilinear, and anisotropic filtering all refer to ways to blend these different resolution levels together.

The problem is, if you don't have these low resolution textures to read from, then when the polygon gets far away it's hard to figure out which color value to read from a texture. For example, if you have a polygon that's really small on the screen, like maybe only 16 pixels, but you have a really large texture, say 512x512 (so that there are 262,144 possible color elements to read from), then you'll just have to pick one that might not really represent what the color should appear to be. Picture a texture that's all brown except for one black pixel. You could end up reading that single black pixel instead of the very many brown ones, which really you know that the polygon should appear brown when it's small and far away.

All of these errors add up when you don't have mip-mapping, so what happens is that textures in the distance "shimmer" whenever you move. Since figuring out what value to read from the texture is inaccurate, the scene can appear to change dramatically when you move. It also can result in visible patterns in a repeated texture. For example, if you're looking at a wall that's created with a standard brick texture, you might see a weird wavey pattern fade in and out as the wall stretches away from you into the distance.

When you use mipmaps, you're basically blurring down the textures in the scene. Anisotropic filtering is a way of blending intelligently to reduce this appearance. A screenshot might look sharper without mipmapping, but the main problem is when everything is in motion. If you have Quake 3, here's an easy way to try it out for yourself. In the console (which you bring down with the ~ key by the 1 key), type "r_texturemode GL_LINEAR". That will remove mip-maps. To bring back mip-maps, type "r_texturemode GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR". The pixellation in farther-away textures should be really obvious without them, and that's what happens in Vice City and GTA3 on the PC.

There is a slight performance hit to using mip-maps, but since it looks so much better, it seems to me that Rockstar should at least let us choose whether or not we want to use them if we think our computer can handle it.

Sorry for the long post, but it just really stands out at me sad.gif

EDIT: Here's a Vice City example of it: http://tinyurl.com/djqlp

It looks fine in screenshots, but like I said, the problem is that it changes dramatically as you move a little bit, meaning that it shimmers badly.

RCagent
  • RCagent

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#8

Posted 18 May 2005 - 03:08 AM

QUOTE (davew2040 @ May 18 2005, 03:04)
QUOTE (RCagent @ May 18 2005, 02:47)
Mind me asking, but what exactly are mipmaps?

A mip map is basically a low-resolution version of a texture. Usually in games, ranging as far back as GLquake, when a texture is loaded several lower resolution textures are also loaded; a 256x256 texture might also load a 128x128 texture, a 64x64 texture, and so on. Then, as a polygon gets farther from the viewer, the color value at every pixel in the polygon is read from one of the lower resolution textures instead of the high-resolution one. Bilinear, trilinear, and anisotropic filtering all refer to ways to blend these different resolution levels together.

The problem is, if you don't have these low resolution textures to read from, then when the polygon gets far away it's hard to figure out which color value to read from a texture. For example, if you have a polygon that's really small on the screen, like maybe only 16 pixels, but you have a really large texture, say 512x512 (so that there are 262,144 possible color elements to read from), then you'll just have to pick one that might not really represent what the color should appear to be. Picture a texture that's all brown except for one black pixel. You could end up reading that single black pixel instead of the very many brown ones, which really you know that the polygon should appear brown when it's small and far away.

All of these errors add up when you don't have mip-mapping, so what happens is that textures in the distance "shimmer" whenever you move. Since figuring out what value to read from the texture is inaccurate, the scene can appear to change dramatically when you move. It also can result in visible patterns in a repeated texture. For example, if you're looking at a wall that's created with a standard brick texture, you might see a weird wavey pattern fade in and out as the wall stretches away from you into the distance.

When you use mipmaps, you're basically blurring down the textures in the scene. Anisotropic filtering is a way of blending intelligently to reduce this appearance. A screenshot might look sharper without mipmapping, but the main problem is when everything is in motion. If you have Quake 3, here's an easy way to try it out for yourself. In the console (which you bring down with the ~ key by the 1 key), type "r_texturemode GL_LINEAR". That will remove mip-maps. To bring back mip-maps, type "r_texturemode GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR". The pixellation in farther-away textures should be really obvious without them, and that's what happens in Vice City and GTA3 on the PC.

There is a slight performance hit to using mip-maps, but since it looks so much better, it seems to me that Rockstar should at least let us choose whether or not we want to use them if we think our computer can handle it.

Sorry for the long post, but it just really stands out at me sad.gif

So THATS what it was. I usually thought my graphics card just sucked.

Billy-X
  • Billy-X

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#9

Posted 18 May 2005 - 03:33 AM

Sweeet!! smile.gif
Thanks DigitalD!




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