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Possible R* mod support?

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steve-m
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#31

Posted 19 May 2005 - 03:57 PM

Jordan should've kicked their selfish asses...

QUOTE (Jordan's Preview)
6. Mod tools! What is meant by "mod support?"

This was the question I really wanted to ask. First off, Rockstar will not ship any tools themselves. He did say that it will be an extremely smooth transition in that the tools used in Vice City should work perfectly with San Andreas.

That's a blatant lie! As we've already learned from the PS2 version, they changed several essential binary file formats, that were the same for GTA3 and VC (img, col, ifp) and added several new ones (rrr, binipl, cinfo.bin, nodes*.dat). Also, both txd and dff files contain lots of new features. So how can they say our old (unmodified) editors will still work? That's not even the case for any of the text files... mad.gif

The_Grudge
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#32

Posted 19 May 2005 - 05:07 PM

QUOTE (steve-m @ May 19 2005, 16:57)
Jordan should've kicked their selfish asses...

QUOTE (Jordan's Preview)
6. Mod tools! What is meant by "mod support?"

This was the question I really wanted to ask. First off, Rockstar will not ship any tools themselves. He did say that it will be an extremely smooth transition in that the tools used in Vice City should work perfectly with San Andreas.

That's a blatant lie! As we've already learned from the PS2 version, they changed several essential binary file formats, that were the same for GTA3 and VC (img, col, ifp) and added several new ones (rrr, binipl, cinfo.bin, nodes*.dat). Also, both txd and dff files contain lots of new features. So how can they say our old (unmodified) editors will still work? That's not even the case for any of the text files... mad.gif

That´s strange.
I mean why would they/he lie? confused.gif

mickarrow
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#33

Posted 19 May 2005 - 05:09 PM

To sell more copies dozingoff.gif

jacob.
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#34

Posted 19 May 2005 - 05:55 PM

everything about the pc-modding that has came from r* or a source of r* has been a fricking dead-beat lie.

JernejL
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#35

Posted 19 May 2005 - 07:46 PM

rockstar is just full of bullsh*t and you ALL know it.

i'd boycott gta san andreas modding if i were you.

steve-m
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#36

Posted 20 May 2005 - 03:08 PM

http://www.planetgra...ticles/thecrew/

QUOTE
Sam mentioned that a minimal amount of mod support will be coming from Rockstar. If a big modder like illspirit or Spooky needs some information on a certain file, they can supply the information. But they won't be giving out help to the public.

Hmm, I wonder who else is on R*'s List Of Big Modders™... sarcasm.gif

The_Grudge
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#37

Posted 20 May 2005 - 05:29 PM

Wtf???
How could they? confused.gif

JernejL
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#38

Posted 20 May 2005 - 07:56 PM

QUOTE (steve-m @ May 20 2005, 16:08)
http://www.planetgra...ticles/thecrew/

QUOTE
Sam mentioned that a minimal amount of mod support will be coming from Rockstar. If a big modder like illspirit or Spooky needs some information on a certain file, they can supply the information. But they won't be giving out help to the public.

Hmm, I wonder who else is on R*'s List Of Big Modders™... sarcasm.gif

the list is actually probably empty..

Cowpat
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#39

Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:07 PM

QUOTE (steve-m @ May 19 2005, 15:57)

That's a blatant lie! As we've already learned from the PS2 version, they changed several essential binary file formats, that were the same for GTA3 and VC (img, col, ifp) and added several new ones (rrr, binipl, cinfo.bin, nodes*.dat). *snip*

You wouldn't have any details on the changes to the ifp files, would you? wink.gif

DexX
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#40

Posted 20 May 2005 - 09:08 PM

QUOTE ( http://www.planetgra...ticles/thecrew/)
If a big modder like illspirit or Spooky needs some information on a certain file, they can supply the information. But they won't be giving out help to the public. Fans will be writing FAQ's anyway, so this is not a problem.

Er, how will "fans" be writing faq's and tutorials, if the Support is only given to "Big" modders? sarcasm.gif
And i can see a fair amount of people emailing R*, asking questions on file formats, to see if they are "big" enough to get help.

But if thats the ticket getting info, it might be best to get organized, and send one or 2 emails, with batches of questions, and get as many answers as possible at once. its still really inefficient though.

steve-m
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#41

Posted 20 May 2005 - 09:50 PM

QUOTE (Cowpat @ May 20 2005, 22:07)
QUOTE (steve-m @ May 19 2005, 15:57)
That's a blatant lie! As we've already learned from the PS2 version, they changed several essential binary file formats, that were the same for GTA3 and VC (img, col, ifp) and added several new ones (rrr, binipl, cinfo.bin, nodes*.dat). *snip*

You wouldn't have any details on the changes to the ifp files, would you? wink.gif

Dunno if I've ever written it down, but I decoded it shortly after the PS2 release. wink.gif
Edit: found it

@dexx: Yep, that might be our only possibility. Maybe we should organize "Ask R*" emails once a month, with a batch of questions that arose the weeks before. Dunno if they'd play along, though. confused.gif

Cowpat
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#42

Posted 21 May 2005 - 01:47 PM

QUOTE (steve-m @ May 20 2005, 21:50)
Dunno if I've ever written it down, but I decoded it shortly after the PS2 release. wink.gif
Edit: found it

Oh dear, maybe it's because I'm wearing trainers, but I don't have permission to view that page blush.gif

JernejL
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#43

Posted 21 May 2005 - 08:29 PM

complete copy & paste of steve's post:

QUOTE
The ifp animation files have a new format. There aren't any section headers (id/size) anymore, and the values seem to be compressed. Not sure on that yet, here's what I have so far, will update it later.

4b char[4]"ANP3"
4b intsize of the file (without 8b header)
24b char[24]internal file name
4b intnumber of animations
--- anims ---
24b char[24]animation name
4b intnumber of objects
4b intdata size: (obj_num*36+data_size) is what you have to skip to get the next animation
4b intunknown (always 1?)
--- objects ---
24b char[24]object name (dff frame name)
4b intframe type (3 or 4)
4b intnumber of frames
4b intbone ID (same as in dff)
xanimation data, presumably compressed
size is 10*num_frames for type 3 and 16*num_frames for type 4

steve-m
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#44

Posted 21 May 2005 - 08:35 PM

Those are just the headers, apparently I've never posted about the frame data. Will get some documentation ready, ATM you don't need it anyway, do you?

Cowpat
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#45

Posted 21 May 2005 - 11:37 PM

Thanks guys.
No, I don't need it right this minute, but with only three weeks or so to go it's time to start thinking about all things ifp smile.gif

ZanderZ
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#46

Posted 28 May 2005 - 01:28 PM

QUOTE (steve-m @ May 19 2005, 17:57)
So how can they say our old (unmodified) editors will still work? That's not even the case for any of the text files... mad.gif

True, but FeroCT5 (author of GTA Texter) and I have already found out how the new SA text files work. There are still some minor obstacles, but text editing will be possible for SA smile.gif

steve-m
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#47

Posted 28 May 2005 - 02:17 PM

QUOTE (ZanderZ @ May 28 2005, 15:28)
QUOTE (steve-m @ May 19 2005, 17:57)
So how can they say our old (unmodified) editors will still work? That's not even the case for any of the text files... mad.gif

True, but FeroCT5 (author of GTA Texter) and I have already found out how the new SA text files work. There are still some minor obstacles, but text editing will be possible for SA smile.gif

Sure, there have already been gxt viewers before the retail version was even out. And most of the other new formats are known as well. With text files I meant the plain ASCII files, like ipl, ide, handling and so on. Present editors will not be able to work with them without changes, since several parameters were added or changed. It's not as if that's a problem though.

ZanderZ
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#48

Posted 29 May 2005 - 01:03 PM

Okay, my bad tounge.gif
Exactly, look at how fast it went when VC was released. The ide/ipl files used one extra number, and a fix was made very soon after. Now that it's open source, I'm sure one of the Delphi programmers here can make it SA compatible as well.
The same goes for the texture tools (nice work on yours Steve smile.gif ) and the other programs.

Slightly offtopic: I noticed the PS2 version does not have any DIR files included, just like VC didn't. Is there any other way to open the IMG files?

steve-m
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#49

Posted 29 May 2005 - 04:22 PM

IMG 1.2 beta

ZanderZ
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#50

Posted 31 May 2005 - 06:08 PM

Thanks, where would the world be without Steve-M cool.gif

JernejL
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#51

Posted 31 May 2005 - 07:49 PM

QUOTE (ZanderZ @ May 31 2005, 19:08)
Thanks, where would the world be without Steve-M cool.gif

stone age?

probably bronze age since i would be probably still here..

illspirit
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#52

Posted 02 June 2005 - 12:25 AM

Anyone read this? It's not about modding, per se, but they talk about object limits, scripting, and such.

steve-m
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#53

Posted 02 June 2005 - 08:05 PM

QUOTE
In theory, nearly any genre of game could be made using the GTA engine without a single change to the executable just by adding new scripts and art assets.

wow.gif

Very interesting read, but nothing we didn't know already... tounge.gif

DexX
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#54

Posted 03 June 2005 - 06:23 AM

QUOTE
JW: Shadows are a mixture of shadow buffers and shadow volumes to get the results we wanted. Unfortunately, it is difficult to get a consistent look with them when mixed. Reflections on cars were being done at one point by environment--mapping the contents of the screen buffer onto the car with a low alpha. But it didn't look right in some cases so we took it out.

ooohhhh you bastards.... mad.gif

one way or another i _will_ have realtime reflections in SA, whether they include them or not!

Opius
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#55

Posted 03 June 2005 - 06:49 AM

QUOTE
For example, the 2D-based casino and console games weren't viable in Vice City until a host of heads-up display sprite commands were added during the development of San Andreas.

Lies.

I got a semi-decent-looking 2D menu working using just mission scripting in Vice City. Although it take ages and the time vs. payoff ratio just wasn't worth it. I can see why they just added 'proper' support for it.

Ashdexx: wouldn't it just be a matter of porting the DLL to DX9? I can't imagine all of those changes can prevent a direct hook from working. Of course, in it's current state, it's a bit useless since even the PS2 version had specularity mapping.

DexX
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#56

Posted 03 June 2005 - 07:42 AM

QUOTE
Ashdexx: wouldn't it just be a matter of porting the DLL to DX9? I can't imagine all of those changes can prevent a direct hook from working. Of course, in it's current state, it's a bit useless since even the PS2 version had specularity mapping.

you had to get me started tounge.gif

on the ps2, there's 2 reflection maps, one of them is a giant white circle, thats the "specular" map. From every pc screenshot i've seen so far, its been removed, and in its place, the game is actually calculating accurate per-vertex specular lighting; the dll doesnt NEED to be ported to accomplish that anymore, as R* added it themselves.

As far as reflections go, i've been toying with the idea of using cubemaps, one per vehicle, to generate realtime, clear, reflections, that would be about the quality of those in NFSU and NFSU2. implementation is another story, but its not impossible. id like not to promise more than i can deliver though, but its one of my top goals.

thedude420
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#57

Posted 05 June 2005 - 11:24 AM

well one more day till release and i can say for the sake of me and my teams mod that i hope they do pack or release some kinda SDK for it my self. nervous.gif that way we can just jump right in to modding the game and not have to wait for the proper working tools to come out. bored.gif


hehe..i cant wait to see how they do all the animations and bone work with the changeable clothing and see how its handeled. also see how the reflections are done and can be changed too or made to fit custom cars and map mods. biggrin.gif

Fro
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#58

Posted 08 June 2005 - 08:06 PM

I'm sorry to butt in, but I've looked into the game's files already, although I see mentions of such mod files, I see nothing.

Apart from that, on the back of the book SA PC ships in with, there's a disclaimer about Modding. It clearly states that they intended to ship out mod support tho. My guess is that they will release it along with the 1.1 patch.

JernejL
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#59

Posted 08 June 2005 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE (Fro @ Jun 8 2005, 21:06)
I'm sorry to butt in, but I've looked into the game's files already, although I see mentions of such mod files, I see nothing.

Apart from that, on the back of the book SA PC ships in with, there's a disclaimer about Modding. It clearly states that they intended to ship out mod support tho. My guess is that they will release it along with the 1.1 patch.

can we see the disclamer?

DexX
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#60

Posted 09 June 2005 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE (Delfi @ Jun 8 2005, 14:19)
QUOTE (Fro @ Jun 8 2005, 21:06)
I'm sorry to butt in, but I've looked into the game's files already, although I see mentions of such mod files, I see nothing.

Apart from that, on the back of the book SA PC ships in with, there's a disclaimer about Modding. It clearly states that they intended to ship out mod support tho. My guess is that they will release it along with the 1.1 patch.

can we see the disclamer?

dont have the scanner handy, and im damn sure not retyping it, but in the manual, after the credits, but before the warranty, theres a 6-paragraph disclaimer about "The Software Utilities" (quoted verbatim), and what can / cannot be done with mods, who owns the rights to what, etc. i think its more to cover their ass than anything, since we're modding the game whether they ever give us tools or not and they know it. may as well play it safe.

Excerpt:
QUOTE (First paragraph)
The software may contain a level editor or other similar type tools, assests and other materials (the "Software Utilities") that permit you to construct or customize new game levels and other related materials for personal use in connection with the Software ("Customized Game Materials"). In the event the Software contains such Software Utilities, the use of the Software Utilities is subject to the following additional terms, conditions and restrictions:




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