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San Andreas graphics

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legnini
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#1

Posted 11 May 2005 - 02:14 PM

Does anybody else notice that the graphics of the xbox version look better than the graphics of the pc version?
If you don't beleive me, go on rockstar's web site and compare the screenshots.




kenbenpang05
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#2

Posted 11 May 2005 - 02:19 PM

I think they are about of the same level. There are too limited photos till now, they cannot tell.

Neu_Lyf
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#3

Posted 11 May 2005 - 04:32 PM

QUOTE (legnini @ May 11 2005, 14:14)
Does anybody else notice that the graphics of the xbox version look better than the graphics of the pc version?
If you don't beleive me, go on rockstar's web site and compare the screenshots.

must be you got an Xbox huh?

DexX
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#4

Posted 11 May 2005 - 05:25 PM

/*
QUOTE (legnini @ May 11 2005, 08:14)
Does anybody else notice that the graphics of the xbox version look better than the graphics of the pc version?
If you don't beleive me, go on rockstar's web site and compare the screenshots.

matter of opinion. the xbox cant be played @ 1600x1200 though tounge.gif , and with the limited texture memory, the graphics will probably be a bit worse (lower texture size). Personally, i dont really see much difference, since R* smoothes their screenshots to hell anyway, the retail version of the game will never look that smooth on your xbox. */

ghost_master2000
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#5

Posted 11 May 2005 - 05:31 PM

especially if you don't have progressive scan.

what up dexxmaster?!?!?!

EDDS
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#6

Posted 11 May 2005 - 05:49 PM

QUOTE (ashdexx @ May 11 2005, 17:25)
/*
QUOTE (legnini @ May 11 2005, 08:14)
Does anybody else notice that the graphics of the xbox version look better than the graphics of the pc version?
If you don't beleive me, go on rockstar's web site and compare the screenshots.

matter of opinion. the xbox cant be played @ 1600x1200 though tounge.gif , and with the limited texture memory, the graphics will probably be a bit worse (lower texture size). Personally, i dont really see much difference, since R* smoothes their screenshots to hell anyway, the retail version of the game will never look that smooth on your xbox. */

then again most people wont be playing @ that high res on pc, because most monitors dont support it.

the only thing that pc beats xbox at is a higher resolution.

remember xbox only has to run the game, not aload of crap in the background like a pc.

plus we are getting dolby digital support aswell smile.gif , something that pc games lack 99% of the time.

Sin5k4
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#7

Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:18 PM

maybe anti aliasing,we have anti aliasing cool.gif

DexX
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#8

Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:25 PM

/*
QUOTE (EDDS @ May 11 2005, 11:49)
QUOTE (ashdexx @ May 11 2005, 17:25)
/*
QUOTE (legnini @ May 11 2005, 08:14)
Does anybody else notice that the graphics of the xbox version look better than the graphics of the pc version?
If you don't beleive me, go on rockstar's web site and compare the screenshots.

matter of opinion. the xbox cant be played @ 1600x1200 though tounge.gif , and with the limited texture memory, the graphics will probably be a bit worse (lower texture size). Personally, i dont really see much difference, since R* smoothes their screenshots to hell anyway, the retail version of the game will never look that smooth on your xbox. */

then again most people wont be playing @ that high res on pc, because most monitors dont support it.

the only thing that pc beats xbox at is a higher resolution.

remember xbox only has to run the game, not aload of crap in the background like a pc.

plus we are getting dolby digital support aswell smile.gif , something that pc games lack 99% of the time.

well the graphics quality will depend on heavily on your pc setup, so in some cases, yea the xbox version might look better, if you have a low end pc. in the end though, the pc has the potential to look the best, if you got the $$$ to dish out.

if you want to stray off topics from graphics, you can have your dolby 5.1; we get mods. */

davew2040
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#9

Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:30 PM

Okay, a few things.

First of all, there are features available in PC hardware that were not used properly in the past. For example, Vice City doesn't use mip-mapping (as far as I can tell; feel free to correct me if you absolutely think you know otherwise) which is a very important feature in basically all top-shelf PC games in the past five years, which makes it looks worse. Realistically, this is just lazy programming on Rockstar's part, and if they've fixed that, then the game will look quite a bit better when in motion (the problem with not using mip-maps is that things in the distance tend to shimmer).

If they remedy this (and I'll be angry if they don't), then I'd say there's no good reason for the Xbox to look better than the PC, even comparing basically apples to apples, with the PC running at a low resolution and with approximately the same antialiasing settings. There was a time when I think the Xbox had an advantage over the PC by virtue of being dedicated to running exactly one process (like EDDS mentioned), but this is probably not more than 50% overhead, and these days PC's are just so much more powerful than the Xbox hardware that the difference doesn't matter all that much.

You'll notice that good and great PC games have a lot of options for tuning performance, so that it can be made to run on a wide range of systems. In GTA3/VC, Rockstar did a pretty awful job of this, only really letting you change the resolution and the draw distance (and the frame limiter, which shouldn't be necessary anyway). If they throw PC gamers a bone and let us choose more demanding options if we have PC's that can handle it, then I'll be very pleased. If, on the other hand, they choose a low-end baseline system and program the game to run exactly on that platform, with no options for improving the graphics on high-end ones, then we could be screwed. Now I don't see any good reason for this; the PS2 hasn't changed since it was released, whereas there have been four years of PC progress since the PC version of GTA3. So, actually, even if they do choose a low-end baseline system, that low-end should be about as fast as the Xbox. In fact, I'd say the only reason they could make the PC version look markedly worse than the Xbox version would be either gross negligence on their part in doing the programming, or compulsion to do a bad port in order to make the Xbox look more appealing, which would probably require kickbacks from Microsoft. Considering they've had four years to work on the PC port of basically the same engine, I think even if they did shortchange the programming for the PC port of San Andreas they'd end up with a title that's competitive with the Xbox version.

The other thing is that you should keep in mind that, even though the resolution is increased, the level-of-detail of the assets being shown on the screen isn't changed. This means that some of the imperfections end up getting magnified when you're looking at a huge (1600x1200) image. I don't mean that it'll look worse on a PC screen compared to on a television screen; what I mean is that, when you're looking at the screenshots on the Web, just keep in mind that the Xbox screens are a lot smaller in terms of screen space; if you resized the huge PC screenshots down to the size of the Xbox ones, they might look a lot more similar. When it comes time to actually play the game, of course, the Xbox will look worse when it's blown up to fill the entire screen, whereas a PC screen can increase its resolution to adjust. Just something to think about, in case you haven't already.

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#10

Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:32 PM Edited by excalibur69, 11 May 2005 - 07:36 PM.

lol some of you guys crack me up. first off, they doctor the pre release screens so badly they wont look anything like the final game - check the early PS2 shots for proof. Secondly, in pretty much every magazine review ive read that interviewed Rockstar about the Xbox and PC version, they have said that the PC version is THE definitive version to own, with the highest quality textures, while the Xbox version has a rewritten engine of the PC's that allow it to run on the Xbox. The reason many feel VC had better graphics on Xbox vs PC is because they had an extra 6 months to work on it - now they dont - its the same engine on both PC and Xbox, just that the Xbox is trimmed down to run on that system. believe what you want, but you cant compare the graphics/power of an XBox with a 733 mhz processor with a crappy video card running on a TV, with a 2Ghz+ PC with a high end graphics card running on a monitor - sorry, Xbox lost

zepman79
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#11

Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:48 PM

I agree the PC owns an Xbox. Computers are always becomming better and better while an Xbox just sits there. An Xbox could not handle most PC games. Id like to see the XBox run the real Doom 3 not the watered down version they are releasing. There is no way anyone could argue an XBox is better than a PC and the graphics of a PC will always own consoles simply because you can not upgrade your Xbox (except on the N64 with the expansion pack lol.gif I had one too! haha or the 32x for the Genesis (had one of those too)). It would be silly to run a games graphics sh*tty on the uber machine.

Hope
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#12

Posted 11 May 2005 - 09:43 PM

Okay, I'm not trying to prove anything or start anything. But take a look at these two screenshots of the same bikes and you will notice that on the X-Box version the wheels of the bike look a lot better. Just look at the center circle of the wheels and you will notice the X-Box one has holes in it and has clearer graphics while the PC one is just a solid circle. Infact the whole X-Box bike looks a lot better. This doesn’t mean anything; take it as a grain of salt.

PC:

http://www.gtasanand....php?image=1757

X-Box:

http://www.gtasanand....php?image=1729

Skyline_man
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#13

Posted 11 May 2005 - 09:59 PM

QUOTE (Hope @ May 11 2005, 21:43)
Okay, I'm not trying to prove anything or start anything.  But take a look at these two screenshots of the same bikes and you will notice that on the X-Box version the wheels of the bike look a lot better.  Just look at the center circle of the wheels and you will notice the X-Box one has holes in it and has clearer graphics while the PC one is just a solid circle.  Infact the whole X-Box bike looks a lot better.  This doesn’t mean anything; take it as a grain of salt.

PC:

http://www.gtasanand....php?image=1757

X-Box:

http://www.gtasanand....php?image=1729

Take a CLEAR look at the PC one, and you will find that the whole thing you are talking about is on the other side of the wheel, i can see it from the shadows.

Hope
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#14

Posted 11 May 2005 - 10:01 PM Edited by Hope, 11 May 2005 - 10:07 PM.

QUOTE (Skyline_man @ May 11 2005, 21:59)
QUOTE (Hope @ May 11 2005, 21:43)
Okay, I'm not trying to prove anything or start anything.  But take a look at these two screenshots of the same bikes and you will notice that on the X-Box version the wheels of the bike look a lot better.  Just look at the center circle of the wheels and you will notice the X-Box one has holes in it and has clearer graphics while the PC one is just a solid circle.  Infact the whole X-Box bike looks a lot better.  This doesn’t mean anything; take it as a grain of salt.

PC:

http://www.gtasanand....php?image=1757

X-Box:

http://www.gtasanand....php?image=1729

Take a CLEAR look at the PC one, and you will find that the whole thing you are talking about is on the other side of the wheel, i can see it from the shadows.

Cool, I didn't even see that. Good eye. Nevermind my preceding post then.

davew2040
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#15

Posted 11 May 2005 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE (Skyline_man @ May 11 2005, 21:59)
Take a CLEAR look at the PC one, and you will find that the whole thing you are talking about is on the other side of the wheel, i can see it from the shadows.

http://www.gtasanand....php?image=1688

Correct.

Skyline_man
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#16

Posted 11 May 2005 - 10:14 PM

yeah, that proves it, thx davew2040 cool.gif

scabo19
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#17

Posted 11 May 2005 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE (EDDS @ May 11 2005, 17:49)
plus we are getting dolby digital support aswell smile.gif , something that pc games lack 99% of the time.

Who the f**k cares about dolby digital support.The audio of my game will sound way better on this kickin ass subwoofer than any standard telivision(keyword being standard)

EDDS
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#18

Posted 12 May 2005 - 12:38 AM

QUOTE (scabo19 @ May 11 2005, 23:16)
QUOTE (EDDS @ May 11 2005, 17:49)
plus we are getting dolby digital support aswell smile.gif , something that pc games lack 99% of the time.

Who the f**k cares about dolby digital support.The audio of my game will sound way better on this kickin ass subwoofer than any standard telivision(keyword being standard)

erm, do you actually know what the difference bettween dolby digital and a television is? because it sounds like you dont, dolby digital has nothing to do with the tv.

i have a high end surround sound system and most other people do, so alot of people care about it.

and it wont sound better on your system believe it or not.

EDDS
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#19

Posted 12 May 2005 - 12:46 AM

"if you want to stray off topics from graphics, you can have your dolby 5.1; we get mods."

i hate mods so that doesnt bother me, and i wouldnt call it straying off topic, this is about the xbox version compared to the pc version im just expanding.

quick99
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#20

Posted 12 May 2005 - 02:21 AM

I personally prefer to play my games on a console. I cant see any posibility that the pc version would have such better graphics than the xbox that you would be able to tell the differince just watching a video without saying xbox or pc. plus xbox would be alot cheaper than buying a pc upgrading it the monitor and the graphics and everything els you pc games tend to do. I'm not trying to start anything, just pointing something out

Jordan
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#21

Posted 12 May 2005 - 02:22 AM

The Xbox version screens look better because they are taken from the exact same source as the PC screens, but the Xbox screens are narrowed down with their image size. Take any huge picture and make it smaller and it will look sharper.

DexX
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#22

Posted 12 May 2005 - 02:26 AM

/*
QUOTE
i hate mods so that doesnt bother me, and i wouldnt call it straying off topic, this is about the xbox version compared to the pc version im just expanding.

according to the topic title, its specifically about graphics comparisons between the 2. not sounds, or mods.

QUOTE
First of all, there are features available in PC hardware that were not used properly in the past. For example, Vice City doesn't use mip-mapping (as far as I can tell; feel free to correct me if you absolutely think you know otherwise) which is a very important feature in basically all top-shelf PC games in the past five years, which makes it looks worse. Realistically, this is just lazy programming on Rockstar's part, and if they've fixed that, then the game will look quite a bit better when in motion (the problem with not using mip-maps is that things in the distance tend to shimmer).

they most likely reason they didn't bother with mimapping, is because the biiggest normal texture size in VC:PC, is 256, and most arent over 128 or 64. at that resolution, its hardly worth the extra power to mimap, what is basically already a mipmap. They claim to be using the original higher res textures this time around, so i assume the mipmapping will be enabled.

QUOTE
The reason many feel VC had better graphics on Xbox vs PC is because they had an extra 6 months to work on it - now they dont - its the same engine on both PC and Xbox, just that the Xbox is trimmed down to run on that system.

its not a feeling, the xbox versions DID look better, because they had extra features programmed into them that were completely absent from the pc version. Also, R* North didnt do the xbox versions before, R* Vienna did, which is a different developer. R* North was working on SA while R* vienna was doing the ports. */

davew2040
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#23

Posted 12 May 2005 - 03:59 AM

QUOTE (ashdexx @ May 12 2005, 02:26)
Welthey most likely reason they didn't bother with mimapping, is because the biiggest normal texture size in VC:PC, is 256, and most arent over 128 or 64. at that resolution, its hardly worth the extra power to mimap, what is basically already a mipmap. They claim to be using the original higher res textures this time around, so i assume the mipmapping will be enabled.

Well, I disagree. It's been used since GLquake, and GLquake had lower-res textures than Vice City by a long shot, and Vice City was the sort of environment where a lot of textures were off in the distance; in other words, it was an ideal environment for mip mapping. At the very least they should've allowed users to choose, because I really don't like the shimmering.

One way or another, if it's not included in San Andreas I'm going to chalk it up to them not caring enough about the PC port.

illspirit
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#24

Posted 12 May 2005 - 09:33 AM

Actually, VC does have mipmaps, but only on certain cars and peds. I assume they left it off the map objects to speed up the streaming a bit. Or they figured it wouldn't be noticeable since LOD's are generally drawn in at 300 meters and up. Or some of both,

EDDS
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#25

Posted 12 May 2005 - 10:51 AM

QUOTE (ashdexx @ May 12 2005, 02:26)
[color=green]/*
QUOTE
i hate mods so that doesnt bother me, and i wouldnt call it straying off topic, this is about the xbox version compared to the pc version im just expanding.

according to the topic title, its specifically about graphics comparisons between the 2. not sounds, or mods.

you really want me to go and make a whole new thread on audio?

legnini
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#26

Posted 12 May 2005 - 02:18 PM

QUOTE (Neu_Lyf @ May 11 2005, 16:32)
QUOTE (legnini @ May 11 2005, 14:14)
Does anybody else notice that the graphics of the xbox version look better than the graphics of the pc version?
If you don't beleive me, go on rockstar's web site and compare the screenshots.

must be you got an Xbox huh?

No I don't have an xbox. I hate xbox. I started this thread because I am worried they might actually make the graphics on the xbox version sharper than the pc. I know for a fact that 99% of all games on a good computer are always better than they are on xbox.


Fatz
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#27

Posted 12 May 2005 - 04:25 PM

PC version will always look better on a decent PC (as someone already said) and I would think they would at least have PC support for 4 or more speakers like VC had. Which in a generally smaller environment than that of a tv/surround sound/xbox setup, will sound very nice anyway. The point is you spend allot more money on a PC quick enough to make the game look better than on an xbox, so it better be an improvement. And the option to use mods makes lots of games last way longer than the xbox versions can.

I run my games at 1600x1200 on my PC and I've had people remark about how much better they look than the same game on their consoles. Xbox looks good but high res PC's always look better, IMO.

Bilko
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#28

Posted 12 May 2005 - 06:02 PM

The PC will also have higher detail textures, plus read this:

QUOTE
The last two pages though is where it gets interesting, the article talks about the way the lights are for the pc version,
"as you walk CJ around youll see the shadows of overhead power lines fall across his body"
Very interesting indeed, seems like th PC gamers will get dynamic lighting with their serving of San Andreas.


http://gtacentral.ne...tent/view/79/2/

So that kinda puts a stop to the debate, the PC's graphics are slightly better than the Xbox's, although it has no real impact on gameplay, so don't be put off by it.

riahc5
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#29

Posted 12 May 2005 - 06:08 PM

QUOTE (EDDS @ May 12 2005, 00:46)
"if you want to stray off topics from graphics, you can have your dolby 5.1; we get mods."

i hate mods so that doesnt bother me, and i wouldnt call it straying off topic, this is about the xbox version compared to the pc version im just expanding.

Sure you hate mods....Dont get P.O that your not smart enough or dont know enough to mod your games on your Xbox.
Anyways we also get 5.1 support so I dont know what your talking about. Even Vice City had 5.1 support.

davew2040
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#30

Posted 12 May 2005 - 06:09 PM

QUOTE (Bilko @ May 12 2005, 18:02)
The PC will also have higher detail textures, plus read this:

QUOTE
The last two pages though is where it gets interesting, the article talks about the way the lights are for the pc version,
"as you walk CJ around youll see the shadows of overhead power lines fall across his body"
Very interesting indeed, seems like th PC gamers will get dynamic lighting with their serving of San Andreas.


http://gtacentral.ne...tent/view/79/2/

So that kinda puts a stop to the debate, the PC's graphics are slightly better than the Xbox's, although it has no real impact on gameplay, so don't be put off by it.

Not really. That quote doesn't suggest that the Xbox doesn't also have those features, it only implies that the PS2 version didn't have them. In fact, the impression I get from reading that article is that the author hasn't really played the PS2 version much and also that he knows nothing about the Xbox version. Not that there's really anything wrong with that, but I just think that's the case.




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