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Stuff I still don't know if they've fixed

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davew2040
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#1

Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:16 PM

Okay, so we've got some additional information, and the screenshots look pretty good. But there are some things that I really hope they address, which I don't believe they have yet.

First of all, anisotropic filtering is broke. GTA3 and VC didn't really support any anisoptropic filter settings in your browser, presumably because they used some wacky texture filtering scheme. This resulted in textures that looked kinda "pixelly" when viewed from far away, and more importantly, made far away objects kinda "shimmer" with a lot of pixels popping in and out. If anybody wants to hear more detail on why I think they made it this way, I'll gladly share it with you. It should really be an easy fix for them.

Secondly, the analog controls for cars don't work that well. If you have a controller where you're easily able to get fine precision, like a joystick or driving wheel, it's really obvious. When you try to tell the car to steel left or right by maybe only 10% of the full turning potential (for a very gentle turn, like you'd probably want to do at high speeds), you find that you can't really do it. The absolute minimum you can turn is basically the same as the maximum, so you're pretty much forced to always jerk your car around. This is not the case with motorcycles and even helicopters, which you have a pretty control precision. The way I see it, this is an easy fix for them, and is great for people that really take a serious interest in the driving parts of the game.

Third, there's not a lot of point in the seperation between "classic" and "standard" controls. Do any of you know why they bother with this? One mode is intended for kb/mouse users, and the other for gamepad users; shouldn't either of them work as expected whenever you want to switch between them? I can't think of one good reason for it, and I suspect it's some sort of bad technical implementation issue on their part that made go this route. On the bright side, they've already indicated that auto-targeting is available all the time (not just in the wacky "classic" mode), so maybe this means they've fixed the issue.

I'm glad they're working on the graphics, but frankly I'd say some of this stuff is more important to the actual gameplay.

Are there any things you wonder about that are still up in the air? Not including coop/multiplayer, which I think we can all realistically say that there's too much conflicting information to comment on.

DigitalD
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#2

Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:26 PM

The whole player skinning thing is still up in the air I believe. Rockstar has been reluctant to say whether we will be able to skin characters again or not.. whatsthat.gif

Samutz
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#3

Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:29 PM

I haven't had any problem with my analog gamepad (Logitech Rumblepad 2) when driving. If I barely pull the stick left or right the car barely turns left or right, not like a full force turn.

And I don't understand your issue with the standard and classic controls. Could you clarify it?
When I first got 3 for pc, I had no problems using the classic controls with my gamepad and even beat the game without using the keyboad and mouse in-game. After that, I changed to standard when I figured out that the standard controls were more pc fps-ish.

davew2040
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#4

Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE (Samutz @ Apr 23 2005, 21:29)
I haven't had any problem with my analog gamepad (Logitech Rumblepad 2) when driving. If I barely pull the stick left or right the car barely turns left or right, not like a full force turn.

And I don't understand your issue with the standard and classic controls. Could you clarify it?
When I first got 3 for pc, I had no problems using the classic controls with my gamepad and even beat the game without using the keyboad and mouse in-game. After that, I changed to standard when I figured out that the standard controls were more pc fps-ish.

Well, using either my Logitech Rumblepad or my Logitech joystick, it's pretty obvious to me that the first level of precision is too hard. Maybe I can fiddle with it.

My point with standard vs. classic is that there's no reason to have two of them in the first place. You should be able to switch from using the kb/mouse to a gamepad immediately, without having to change any modes. Standard basically makes it impossible to use a gamepad (at least on foot), and classic makes it impossible to the kb/mouse, and that's idiotic.

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#5

Posted 23 April 2005 - 09:52 PM

Okay, to clarify a little more, I specifically wish there were more precision at high speeds. At low speeds there's enough, but at high speeds the minimum you can turn is just too close to the maximum. There is a difference, but it's still a really sharp turn.

GTAKhaoZ
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#6

Posted 23 April 2005 - 10:02 PM

I know what you mean, dave. I tried the classic mode with my InterAct Hammerhead FX gamepad and it just felt too unnatural. I just use it for driving/flying. When I'm driving, as comfortable as it is for me to use the gamepad for that, the controls are just too jerky. I've learned to deal with it but I just know that it could be better. I feel like GTA was meant for the kb/mouse with all the available keys, scrollwheel, etc. when runnin' and gunnin' and being able to turn your character around on a dime, you know? I also hope they address this for SA:PC.

bob the noob
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#7

Posted 23 April 2005 - 11:30 PM

QUOTE (davew2040 @ Apr 23 2005, 14:52)
Okay, to clarify a little more, I specifically wish there were more precision at high speeds. At low speeds there's enough, but at high speeds the minimum you can turn is just too close to the maximum. There is a difference, but it's still a really sharp turn.

what are you basing this on? ....

first of all... you can force AA and ASF with your graphics card no real need for an option in the menu.... tho with gta:sa pc sounded like from one preview they have included it ... either way with being able to force it this is a mute point... (Konoko45 pointed it out for me in another post and VC has never looked so good)

secondly ... if you've been using an analog joystick on older games or games that they didn't put much though into people using analog joysticks of course your not gonna notice a differace beause the programing isn't there... all or none "steering" is included in alot of "older" games... if the game was made to include incrmental steering (was build with steering wheel/ game pads) and it's still not working for you then update your drivers /adjust your controller setup should fix it ..... gta:sa pc seems to have predidcted more people will use a game pad then before it sounds like it has more support then say VC (KB and Mouse is hard hill to get over many pc users stick to this dinosour for shooting games myself included) how can you say that on the pc your analog joystick won't have precise streering like on ps2 with gta sa pc ? have you played it yet.... NO i didn't think so ...quit assuming things


thrid .... these are two very differnt ways to play the game ... you can use gamepad for both or KB/mouse for both ias such you can even set up a mix between kb/mouse and gamepad .... Classic controlls have nothing to do with gamepad usage it has to do with the "classic" way you used to play GTA (go play gta1-2 and lodon then choose classic mode you will see what i mean) so assuming one is gamepad and one is kb/mouse is a wrong assumuption... this is an easy assumuption if your new to the series .... and yes i will admite that "classic" fits a pad pad more in the raw(ihmo) but with the option to change up your controlls you can make any mix you want (ie you can set it up so all your "out of car" controlls are kb/mouse while all your "in car" controlls are gamepad...




Cran.
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#8

Posted 24 April 2005 - 03:18 AM

I can't be screwed making my own thread, but it would be nice if Rockstar fixed one of the problems with the new lighting. I always noticed when the break lights went off that they were exlaclty the same pretty much as the night taillights, so you couldn't see you breaking at night. I think Rockstar have probably addressed this.

murph_fan51
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#9

Posted 24 April 2005 - 03:33 AM

Also, I hope they have fixed the light in the means of blocks. In some vehicles in VC, you can see blocks of the lights that stick out from the car, same with the brake lights, noticable close up. The lights didnt really look good overall actually... sad.gif

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#10

Posted 24 April 2005 - 04:28 AM

QUOTE (murph_fan51 @ Apr 24 2005, 14:03)
Also, I hope they have fixed the light in the means of blocks. In some vehicles in VC, you can see blocks of the lights that stick out from the car, same with the brake lights, noticable close up. The lights didnt really look good overall actually... sad.gif

New lighting system in SA, lighting blocks are gone! They had those blocks in GTA III/Vice PS2 and Xbox.

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#11

Posted 24 April 2005 - 04:44 AM

^ Yep those lighting blocks are gone, if you need proof or a example, look at the screen with C.J on the Motorcycle in the woods. You can clearly see a nice looking projected light.

davew2040
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#12

Posted 24 April 2005 - 05:28 AM

QUOTE (bob the noob @ Apr 23 2005, 23:30)
QUOTE (davew2040 @ Apr 23 2005, 14:52)
Okay, to clarify a little more, I specifically wish there were more precision at high speeds. At low speeds there's enough, but at high speeds the minimum you can turn is just too close to the maximum. There is a difference, but it's still a really sharp turn.

what are you basing this on? ....

first of all... you can force AA and ASF with your graphics card no real need for an option in the menu.... tho with gta:sa pc sounded like from one preview they have included it ... either way with being able to force it this is a mute point... (Konoko45 pointed it out for me in another post and VC has never looked so good)

secondly ... if you've been using an analog joystick on older games or games that they didn't put much though into people using analog joysticks of course your not gonna notice a differace beause the programing isn't there... all or none "steering" is included in alot of "older" games... if the game was made to include incrmental steering (was build with steering wheel/ game pads) and it's still not working for you then update your drivers /adjust your controller setup should fix it ..... gta:sa pc seems to have predidcted more people will use a game pad then before it sounds like it has more support then say VC (KB and Mouse is hard hill to get over many pc users stick to this dinosour for shooting games myself included) how can you say that on the pc your analog joystick won't have precise streering like on ps2 with gta sa pc ? have you played it yet.... NO i didn't think so ...quit assuming things


thrid .... these are two very differnt ways to play the game ... you can use gamepad for both or KB/mouse for both ias such you can even set up a mix between kb/mouse and gamepad .... Classic controlls have nothing to do with gamepad usage it has to do with the "classic" way you used to play GTA (go play gta1-2 and lodon then choose classic mode you will see what i mean) so assuming one is gamepad and one is kb/mouse is a wrong assumuption... this is an easy assumuption if your new to the series .... and yes i will admite that "classic" fits a pad pad more in the raw(ihmo) but with the option to change up your controlls you can make any mix you want (ie you can set it up so all your "out of car" controlls are kb/mouse while all your "in car" controlls are gamepad...

As for the first point: You can force AA, and that works. But it doesn't matter what settings you try to force for anisotropic filtering, because the game doesn't use it. I even went so far as to email Rockstar support about it, and they told me that anisotropic filtering isn't supported. Anisotropic filtering basically just tells the card how it should mix the contributions from several different sizes of the same texture; normally, the system generates these different resized versions of the texture when a level is loaded. I assume that since GTA terrain is all loaded dynamically, they decided to not support this kind of filtering. Personally, I think that's a bad idea, and they should give users the option to decide whether or not they want the performance hit (people with fast computers could deal with it).

For the second point: You must not have read my post that closely. I said there were issues in the earlier games that I don't know if they've fixed in GTA:SA, and I hope they have. This is NOT a driver issue; if I look closely at the car when it's stationary (from the side view), I can see the wheels turning in the same magnitude as the joystick indicates it should turn. The problem is just that when you're going fast, the smallest increment is too big. All they need to do is tone it down a bit for GTA:SA, and I suspect they did (since the driving physics are pretty much improved). I wish some of you guys would actually try it before complaining that I'm wrong. On a motorcycle you have very fine control with gentle turns at high speeds, but with cars you don't. It's real simple.

For the third point: I have no idea what you're talking about, and I really don't think I need to know, because my gripe still stands. The gamepad works like it should in classic mode when I'm traveling on foot, but I can't use the kb/mouse in that mode. The kb/mouse work in standard mode, but the gamepad is funky. I should be able to get the kb/mouse setup in standard mode and the gamepad setup in classic mode AT THE SAME TIME, so I can switch between them quickly (specifically, so I can use kb/mouse while on foot and a gamepad while driving cars). I don't care what basis there is in older games for this screwy setup, and I'm fine with them giving people whatever crazy ways they want to play the game, as long as they don't cripple the game for me and everyone else who wants to use the kb/mouse and gamepad together. Specifically, it would be fine if they didn't disable mouse input in the classic mode of controls.

davew2040
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#13

Posted 24 April 2005 - 06:12 AM

QUOTE (RCagent @ Apr 24 2005, 04:44)
^ Yep those lighting blocks are gone, if you need proof or a example, look at the screen with C.J on the Motorcycle in the woods. You can clearly see a nice looking projected light.

I hope so, but I wouldn't assume it from those shots. There is a projected shadow in the image on the motorcycle, but that's not a product of the lighting system. In this case, they project the motorcycle against the ground and then darken that area. They could've done the same thing in Vice City.

But they did say they changed the lighting around, so probably!

bob the noob
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#14

Posted 24 April 2005 - 06:32 AM Edited by bob the noob, 24 April 2005 - 06:46 AM.

QUOTE (davew2040 @ Apr 23 2005, 22:28)
QUOTE (bob the noob @ Apr 23 2005, 23:30)
QUOTE (davew2040 @ Apr 23 2005, 14:52)
Okay, to clarify a little more, I specifically wish there were more precision at high speeds. At low speeds there's enough, but at high speeds the minimum you can turn is just too close to the maximum. There is a difference, but it's still a really sharp turn.

what are you basing this on? ....

first of all... you can force AA and ASF with your graphics card no real need for an option in the menu.... tho with gta:sa pc sounded like from one preview they have included it ... either way with being able to force it this is a mute point... (Konoko45 pointed it out for me in another post and VC has never looked so good)

secondly ... if you've been using an analog joystick on older games or games that they didn't put much though into people using analog joysticks of course your not gonna notice a differace beause the programing isn't there... all or none "steering" is included in alot of "older" games... if the game was made to include incrmental steering (was build with steering wheel/ game pads) and it's still not working for you then update your drivers /adjust your controller setup should fix it ..... gta:sa pc seems to have predidcted more people will use a game pad then before it sounds like it has more support then say VC (KB and Mouse is hard hill to get over many pc users stick to this dinosour for shooting games myself included) how can you say that on the pc your analog joystick won't have precise streering like on ps2 with gta sa pc ? have you played it yet.... NO i didn't think so ...quit assuming things


thrid .... these are two very differnt ways to play the game ... you can use gamepad for both or KB/mouse for both ias such you can even set up a mix between kb/mouse and gamepad .... Classic controlls have nothing to do with gamepad usage it has to do with the "classic" way you used to play GTA (go play gta1-2 and lodon then choose classic mode you will see what i mean) so assuming one is gamepad and one is kb/mouse is a wrong assumuption... this is an easy assumuption if your new to the series .... and yes i will admite that "classic" fits a pad pad more in the raw(ihmo) but with the option to change up your controlls you can make any mix you want (ie you can set it up so all your "out of car" controlls are kb/mouse while all your "in car" controlls are gamepad...

As for the first point: You can force AA, and that works. But it doesn't matter what settings you try to force for anisotropic filtering, because the game doesn't use it. I even went so far as to email Rockstar support about it, and they told me that anisotropic filtering isn't supported. Anisotropic filtering basically just tells the card how it should mix the contributions from several different sizes of the same texture; normally, the system generates these different resized versions of the texture when a level is loaded. I assume that since GTA terrain is all loaded dynamically, they decided to not support this kind of filtering. Personally, I think that's a bad idea, and they should give users the option to decide whether or not they want the performance hit (people with fast computers could deal with it).

For the second point: You must not have read my post that closely. I said there were issues in the earlier games that I don't know if they've fixed in GTA:SA, and I hope they have. This is NOT a driver issue; if I look closely at the car when it's stationary (from the side view), I can see the wheels turning in the same magnitude as the joystick indicates it should turn. The problem is just that when you're going fast, the smallest increment is too big. All they need to do is tone it down a bit for GTA:SA, and I suspect they did (since the driving physics are pretty much improved). I wish some of you guys would actually try it before complaining that I'm wrong. On a motorcycle you have very fine control with gentle turns at high speeds, but with cars you don't. It's real simple.

For the third point: I have no idea what you're talking about, and I really don't think I need to know, because my gripe still stands. The gamepad works like it should in classic mode when I'm traveling on foot, but I can't use the kb/mouse in that mode. The kb/mouse work in standard mode, but the gamepad is funky. I should be able to get the kb/mouse setup in standard mode and the gamepad setup in classic mode AT THE SAME TIME, so I can switch between them quickly (specifically, so I can use kb/mouse while on foot and a gamepad while driving cars). I don't care what basis there is in older games for this screwy setup, and I'm fine with them giving people whatever crazy ways they want to play the game, as long as they don't cripple the game for me and everyone else who wants to use the kb/mouse and gamepad together. Specifically, it would be fine if they didn't disable mouse input in the classic mode of controls.

Neither AA or ASF are Supported in Vice City ... this is why you "Force" them ... think of them as camera lenses and your video card as a camera and your monitor as the picture that gets taken ... you can put on the AA and ASF full time no matter what the game says as it is a process of your video card and not the game ... when they appear in the game it it simply a "performance" choice .... so if they include this preformance option or not in the game you can force it on or off if to your own choice .... what is your problem here?


like i said i'm sure there were earlier games that didn't support analog joysticks... this isn't a problem it was simply not supported ... older game dont automaticly update to include new technologies .... from the sounds of it "Game pad with twin axis analog controls "- recommend specs on gta:sa pc.... it is supported ... as for turning faster at speed compaired to not moving how dare the game physics use ...forward momentum in detreming the speed at witch your car angles from turning. if it's a game that supported analog sticks and did this adjust the sencitivity of the gamepad or buy a better one if it's a game that didn't support it .... then you complaing that gta:sa needs to be fixed based on a game that didn't support analog controll .... apples and oranges man ....

you talk like "classic" mode is ment to be for the game pad ... classic mode has nothing to do with gamepads or kb/mouse.... it has to do with the way your charater responds in game to the commands no matter the input device .... "classic" refers to the way the "Classic" GTA's (ie GTA1 -2 and London 1969) responded to input .... IE if you play gta3 with the top down camera view and the "classic" controlls it looks and handles like the old GTA1-2 ect.. except it's more 3d .... if you had played from gta 1 you'd be used to this control system new thing being that the "Classic" using the mouse for camera view instead of gun view.... sounds like your problem can easly be fixed by using the in game controller setup use "standard" mode and select "incar options" as your game pad... so lack of understandin in the way the "classic" and "standard" controls are suposed to work seems to be your problem...not an issue that need to be fixed....

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#15

Posted 24 April 2005 - 07:07 AM

QUOTE (DigitalD @ Apr 23 2005, 21:26)
The whole player skinning thing is still up in the air I believe. Rockstar has been reluctant to say whether we will be able to skin characters again or not.. whatsthat.gif

Well..we can basically skin CJ in the game now, with all the clothes and sh*t tounge2.gif

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#16

Posted 24 April 2005 - 07:16 AM

QUOTE (bob the noob @ Apr 24 2005, 06:32)
Neither AA or ASF are Supported in Vice City ... this is why you "Force" them ... think of them as camera lenses and your video card as a camera and your monitor as the picture that gets taken ... you can put on the AA and ASF full time no matter what the game says as it is a process of your video card and not the game ... when they appear in the game it it simply a "performance" choice .... so if they include this preformance option or not in the game you can force it on or off if to your own choice .... what is your problem here?


like i said i'm sure there were earlier games that didn't support analog joysticks... this isn't a problem it was simply not supported ... older game dont automaticly update to include new technologies .... from the sounds of it "Game pad with twin axis analog controls "- recommend specs on gta:sa pc.... it is supported ... as for turning faster at speed compaired to not moving how dare the game physics use ...forward momentum in detreming the speed at witch your car angles from turning. if it's a game that supported analog sticks and did this adjust the sencitivity of the gamepad or buy a better one if it's a game that didn't support it .... then you complaing that gta:sa needs to be fixed based on a game that didn't support analog controll .... apples and oranges man ....

you talk like "classic" mode is ment to be for the game pad ... classic mode has nothing to do with gamepads or kb/mouse.... it has to do with the way your charater responds in game to the commands no matter the input device .... "classic" refers to the way the "Classic" GTA's (ie GTA1 -2 and London 1969) responded to input .... IE if you play gta3 with the top down camera view and the "classic" controlls it looks and handles like the old GTA1-2 ect.. except it's more 3d .... if you had played from gta 1 you'd be used to this control system new thing being that the "Classic" using the mouse for camera view instead of gun view.... sounds like your problem can easly be fixed by using the in game controller setup use "standard" mode and select "incar options" as your game pad... so lack of understandin in the way the "classic" and "standard" controls are suposed to work seems to be your problem...not an issue that need to be fixed....

I think you must not be reading my posts very carefully or something.

1) It doesn't matter what your driver settings say for anisotropic filtering, because they have no effect in the game. Disabled, Enabled, same thing. Feel free to try "Off" compared to "16x" and take screenshots. If there were a difference, you'd be able to spot it real quick. Since there isn't, you either won't see anything or you'll try real hard to find a difference that isn't there. It can't use anisotropic filtering because it doesn't use have the sequence of lower resolution versions of each texture that it needs to use it. I understand this stuff pretty well, so don't bother trying to explain it to me further.

2) I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. Older games that don't support analog controls... What?? Where did this even come into the conversation? I'm telling you that my controller (a Logitech Rumblepad, probably the most common PC gamepad around) works fine and completely as expected as far as the game is concerned. I can see the wheels on the car turning in a totally analog way when I'm stopped, and at low speed, it handles like I would expect it to. Now listen carefully to what I'm saying. At high speeds, it's NOT POSSIBLE to turn gently. I've even lowered the range on my gamepad (and my joystick), and there is no increment between "moving straight" and "veering off sharply to the side" (even though you move a little more sharply to the side when you push the controller all the way to the edge). Imagine yourself driving on a highway (in real life!). You're going pretty fast, and there's a gradual curve in the road. You don't get through that curve by jerking the wheel to the side once in awhile every time you're about to drive off the road; you turn the wheel just a little bit and hold it so that your path curves with the road. Rockstar can and should tweak the high-speed motion on the cars a little bit to make this possible, and given their claim that they improved driving physics in San Andreas, I suspect they've probably made this change.

3) "Standard" controls are pretty much worthless on foot. Now this could just be because there's no auto-targeting mode in Standard (or at least I've never gotten it to work), while there is in Classic. If all it takes to make Standard mode work like the console version controls is to enable the auto-targeting feature, then great, they've probably already fixed it, since they've said that they're keeping that in there for San Andreas. Frankly, it's never made any sense to me why they decided to disable auto-targeting in Standard mode in the previous two games, except that they want to force you to use the mouse. If I recall correctly, Classic has some other sh*t wrong with it that makes it hard to use, like not being able to control the camera really easily.

Even if you enjoy Grand Theft Auto and think it's great, there's no point in coming up with silly defenses for things that just don't work that well. They made it as a console game, and making a really solid port to the PC was never a top priority for them. It was always "pretty good". There are some problems, and there are other things they can just make better. These are some of the things that bother me personally, and frankly I think there's a good chance they've fixed at least one of them. But since they haven't explicitly said otherwise, I don't know.

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#17

Posted 24 April 2005 - 07:45 AM

For anyone having problems with joysticks/steering wheels in Vice City, look for a program called the Analogical Mapper (or something similar). It allows devices act like proper analogue devices, instead of a badly-hacked digital device like what Vice does by default.

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#18

Posted 24 April 2005 - 08:23 AM

QUOTE (Opius @ Apr 24 2005, 07:45)
For anyone having problems with joysticks/steering wheels in Vice City, look for a program called the Analogical Mapper (or something similar). It allows devices act like proper analogue devices, instead of a badly-hacked digital device like what Vice does by default.

I downloaded that Analogic Mapper, and it seems to actually change the steering so that I can steer pretty precisely at high speeds! I definitely think I can play around with it and get what I'm looking for, so thanks a lot for the reference.

Yeah, Rockstar definitely needs to fix that. If this program can make it work, then it's obviously something that's well within their control. I shouldn't have to download third-party programs to get that kind of capability. I can't even imagine why they went with a pseudo-digital device input mechanism instead of doing it right...

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#19

Posted 24 April 2005 - 09:08 AM

I think the root of the whole analog support on PC being crap is the backwards porting of the game ie. PS2 to PC rather then the preferred PC to PS2. Rockstar spent all the time getting the PS2's controller compatibility working so that when it came to PC they just sort of made a make-do system.

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#20

Posted 24 April 2005 - 09:16 AM

QUOTE (davew2040 @ Apr 24 2005, 00:16)
QUOTE (bob the noob @ Apr 24 2005, 06:32)
Neither AA or ASF are Supported in Vice City ... this is why you "Force" them ... think of them as camera lenses and your video card as a camera and your monitor as the picture that gets taken ... you can put on the AA and ASF full time no matter what the game says as it is a process of your video card and not the game ... when they appear in the game it it simply a "performance" choice .... so if they include this preformance option or not in the game you can force it on or off if to your own choice .... what is your problem here?


like i said i'm sure there were earlier games that didn't support  analog joysticks... this isn't a problem it was simply not supported ... older game dont automaticly update to include new technologies .... from the sounds of it "Game pad with twin axis analog controls "- recommend specs on gta:sa pc.... it is supported ... as for turning faster at speed compaired to not moving how dare the game physics use ...forward momentum in detreming the speed at witch your car angles from turning. if it's a game that supported analog sticks and did this adjust the sencitivity of the gamepad or buy a better one if it's a game that didn't support it .... then you complaing that gta:sa needs to be fixed based on a game that didn't support analog controll .... apples and oranges man ....

you talk like "classic" mode is ment to be for the game pad ... classic mode has nothing to do with gamepads or kb/mouse.... it has to do with the way your charater responds in game to the commands no matter the input device .... "classic" refers to the way the "Classic" GTA's (ie GTA1 -2 and London 1969) responded to input .... IE if you play gta3 with the top down camera view and the "classic" controlls it looks and handles like the old GTA1-2 ect.. except it's more 3d .... if you had played from gta 1 you'd be used to this control system new thing being that the "Classic" using the mouse for camera view instead of gun view.... sounds like your problem can easly be fixed by using the in game controller setup use "standard" mode and select "incar options" as your game pad... so lack of understandin in the way the "classic" and "standard" controls are suposed to work seems to be your problem...not an issue that need to be fixed....

I think you must not be reading my posts very carefully or something.

1) It doesn't matter what your driver settings say for anisotropic filtering, because they have no effect in the game. Disabled, Enabled, same thing. Feel free to try "Off" compared to "16x" and take screenshots. If there were a difference, you'd be able to spot it real quick. Since there isn't, you either won't see anything or you'll try real hard to find a difference that isn't there. It can't use anisotropic filtering because it doesn't use have the sequence of lower resolution versions of each texture that it needs to use it. I understand this stuff pretty well, so don't bother trying to explain it to me further.

2) I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. Older games that don't support analog controls... What?? Where did this even come into the conversation? I'm telling you that my controller (a Logitech Rumblepad, probably the most common PC gamepad around) works fine and completely as expected as far as the game is concerned. I can see the wheels on the car turning in a totally analog way when I'm stopped, and at low speed, it handles like I would expect it to. Now listen carefully to what I'm saying. At high speeds, it's NOT POSSIBLE to turn gently. I've even lowered the range on my gamepad (and my joystick), and there is no increment between "moving straight" and "veering off sharply to the side" (even though you move a little more sharply to the side when you push the controller all the way to the edge). Imagine yourself driving on a highway (in real life!). You're going pretty fast, and there's a gradual curve in the road. You don't get through that curve by jerking the wheel to the side once in awhile every time you're about to drive off the road; you turn the wheel just a little bit and hold it so that your path curves with the road. Rockstar can and should tweak the high-speed motion on the cars a little bit to make this possible, and given their claim that they improved driving physics in San Andreas, I suspect they've probably made this change.

3) "Standard" controls are pretty much worthless on foot. Now this could just be because there's no auto-targeting mode in Standard (or at least I've never gotten it to work), while there is in Classic. If all it takes to make Standard mode work like the console version controls is to enable the auto-targeting feature, then great, they've probably already fixed it, since they've said that they're keeping that in there for San Andreas. Frankly, it's never made any sense to me why they decided to disable auto-targeting in Standard mode in the previous two games, except that they want to force you to use the mouse. If I recall correctly, Classic has some other sh*t wrong with it that makes it hard to use, like not being able to control the camera really easily.

Even if you enjoy Grand Theft Auto and think it's great, there's no point in coming up with silly defenses for things that just don't work that well. They made it as a console game, and making a really solid port to the PC was never a top priority for them. It was always "pretty good". There are some problems, and there are other things they can just make better. These are some of the things that bother me personally, and frankly I think there's a good chance they've fixed at least one of them. But since they haven't explicitly said otherwise, I don't know.

ok on point one ... i know nothing other then what i have read... i'm no expert ... you could be right.... will check it out


point 2 glad opius could help ... and i guess you missed my point.... hey miscommunications happen


point 3 i guess i'm missing your point here ... hey misscommunications happen

davew2040
  • davew2040

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#21

Posted 24 April 2005 - 09:20 AM

QUOTE (GTA3Freak-2001 @ Apr 24 2005, 09:08)
I think the root of the whole analog support on PC being crap is the backwards porting of the game ie. PS2 to PC rather then the preferred PC to PS2. Rockstar spent all the time getting the PS2's controller compatibility working so that when it came to PC they just sort of made a make-do system.

That's probably true, but since they've had four years since the PC version of GTA3, I'd really hope they could fix it up a bit for San Andreas.

illspirit
  • illspirit

    lycanthroplasty

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#22

Posted 24 April 2005 - 06:07 PM

I think the problem with analog controls on the PC is that there's just too many devices, and they can't be bothered to test all of them since they figure most people would prefer mouse+keyboard. Or, at the very least, they prefer mouse and keyboard. My gamepad, for instance (old ass Logitech WingMan rumble), seems to have more sensitivity on the analog stick. But the tradeoff is that the X and Y axis on the right stick are swapped because the "throttle" slider confuses the game. It's not that they don't spend time on the PC controls, as there are whole new sets of animations/movement involved for strafing and backpeddling on 3 and VC. PC gamepads just have too many variations for them to react the same way; even ones from the same manufacturer.

As for AF (or the lack thereof), I blame RenderWare. However the new version should support AF. I think...




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