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[Official] Myriad's San Andreas Conversion

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Knife
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#1

Posted 17 April 2005 - 03:52 PM Edited by Knife, 01 December 2005 - 04:06 PM.

This is a topic about putting Myriad into the San Andreas game engine. Here you can post your ideas for putting Myriad in SA and also post any progress when SA is released. I have also listed all the different things that may/will need doing. Also this topic should stop people from asking all the time about Myriad going to SA. I don't think this mod will continue if it can't go into SA because people wont be after mods for VC anymore. The best thing that could ever happen is R* giving us support for modding, but the chances are there will never be any support.

REMOVEING SAN ANDREAS DONE
Just like with Vice City all the buildings will have to be removed. This will probably be found out quite quickly although actually deleting objects out of the archive will not be as simple because they are not in any particular order like in vice city. Some people may have thought about putting Myriad next to SanAn but there is a possibility that there will be limits again and also the fact that Myriad is set in New Jersey and not SA.

CONVERTING LOTS TEST BASELAND IN GAME
All the .dff files will have to be converted into the SA .dff format. Also most lots use generic objects like lamp posts ect. They would A) Have to be removed or B) Imported into SA or C) SA generic objects ide numbers changed.

CONVERTING CARS NO PROGRESS
Cars do work quite differently. They have more handling lines and also have other small features like the random number plates. Also car lights are in a separate file from the actual car. A wheel mod will not be needed as it seems the cars all now have separate wheels.

THE MISSION SCRIPT WORK STARTED
Will probably take longest to convert, and probably wont all be converted. As there are such big differences between mission scripts it may have to be started again. I will try and convert my missions to SA.

SEA FLOOR DONE FOR ILLNORTH
A sea floor will be needed for swimming etc

COL FILES NOT YET CONVERTED TO COL3
The .col files have a new format. Steve M is working on the new .col editor. I don't know how easy they will be to convert. Also some people made objects which don't have a collision at the top. In SA you will be able to get to the top of all buildings so everything will need a collision file.

SOUND NO PROGRESS
Sound now works completely differently. They are now in .pak files. I don't know if anyone has been able to crack them yet but at the moment I can't.

MAP FILES NOT ALL DONE BUT VERY EASY
Ipl and ide files changed slightly, a few parameters were added or left out, and there are some new flag values. Conversion could easily be done by some script/tool. Also paths are pretty much the same, just one parameter was added.
We might get problems with those binary ipl files, and that new map management file named cinfo.bin, but it remains to be seen if they are still in the PC version.

ANIMATION FILES NO PROGRESS
The ifp files have a new, compressed format. Conversion could easily be done with a tool, but at the moment we don't have any custom animations yet anyway.

______________________________________________________


Extra Possibilities
With San Andreas, Myriad can be taken to the next level. With more cars to be replaced and more space to build the possibilities are endless (well not quite). There will be room for yet more islands although, at the rate Myriad is going the three islands that fit in VC will not be completed. Hopefully with Myriad in SA it will get people more interested as SA is a newer game.

Who does what?
Simple organization will be needed. People will probably convert their own lots, cars ect. Illspirit will probably convert the main islands. One thing I was thinking about is Respawns island. I believe all .dff and .col files will need to be converted to with so many objects hopefully someone will create a program that can change the format of mass amounts of files.

Knife

caponester
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#2

Posted 17 April 2005 - 04:44 PM

PAK files are what most modern games use to compress there files, so I'm sure they'll be able to be edited with the aid of a tool similar to ones from other games.

I agree the girlfriend, muscle crap etc should all be scrapped. Especially muscle.

Why may you ask - we would need to have a seperate character model for each stage of muscle development and that believe me would be the biggest pain in the arse ever.

We also need to design extras for all cars such as spoilers and paint jobs now that SA can edit your car. I'd like to keep this feature in Myriad but again every car will have to have around 20 variants of itself.

The sea floor shouldn't be a problem at all, simply create a perfectly flat surface with the odd hill or two underwater, hardly any pollies wasted.

All buildings will now have to be remade if they want to keep an interior. In SA all interiors except the odd small low poly one are seperate from the exterior dff. They are all accessed through exactly the same door which leads me to believe this door is a single dff which is hardcoded as the access to an interior - if you know what i mean, you need that door to have an interior.

SA has less weapons but one might say a better variety than VC. Now we can have a silenced pistol which the police actualy can't hear! we also now have weapon skill and the abillity to weild 2 guns at once on certian weapons, a feature that has been dreamt of in LC and VC.

We can now have things like mirrors in shops which is always a cool feature.

SA is able to host much higher detail objects ingame - perfect examples are the casinos in Las Venturas, you would never see anything like that in VC

SA will open Myriad up to so many possibilities. Now you will be able to gamble in a casino, play a games console and have access to a wide variety of richly detailed shrub and tree statics which were not possible in VC.

SA gives us the abillity to have proper gangs which you can run, not just do linear missions for. In SA you can recruit gang members and fight over land, this will add so much variety to Myriad Islands. At last you will be able to visit the Myriad punks and get there help to fight the law, not just on a mission but at any time during the game.

steve-m
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#3

Posted 17 April 2005 - 05:30 PM

QUOTE
REMOVEING SAN ANDREAS

Just like with Vice City all the buildings will have to be removed. This will probably be found out quite quickly although actually deleting objects out of the archive will not be as simple because they are not in any particular order like in vice city. Some people may have thought about putting Myriad next to SanAn but there is a possibility that there will be limits again and also the fact that Myriad is set in New Jersey and not SA.

It might be much more complicated than you can imagine, since there are a lot of new file formats that have to do with the maps. Who knows what problems arise while we clean out the map...

QUOTE
CONVERTING LOTS

All the .dff files will have to be converted into the SA .dff format. Also most lots use generic objects like lamp posts ect. They would A) Have to be removed or B) Imported into SA or C) SA generic objects ide numbers changed.

RW is pretty much compatible to older file versions, as past experience has shown. I suppose we can even leave txd and dff files as they are. But to use new features like UV animation and reflections (for dff) and mipmaps (for txd), we'd have to create new files.
As for generic objects, we simply use SA's.

QUOTE
CONVERTING CARS

Cars do work quite differently. They have more handling lines and also have other small features like the random number plates. Also car lights are in a separate file from the actual car. A wheel mod will not be needed as it seems the cars all now have separate wheels.

All cars will have to be redone. Texturing works different, there are several layers of texture coordinates (reflection, dirt), and a lot of new dummies (e.g. fuel cap).

QUOTE
THE MISSION SCRIPT

Will probably take longest to convert, and probably wont all be converted. As there are such big differences between mission scripts it may have to be started again. I will try and convert my missions to SA.

Sure? Quite a lot opcodes are the same, so it won't need much conversion work. Also, Barton might even make a code converter (if possible).
But on the other hand, I don't know when that C-like compiler is done. Since the syntax is much better, we should rather convert to that. What of course will be a lot of work.

QUOTE
SEA FLOOR

In SA you can swim so there will need to be a sea floor. This shouldn�t take long to make as all that�s really needed is a flat surface.

Not much work, illspirit will do it (if he hasn't already).

QUOTE
COL FILES

The .col files have a new format. Steve M is working on the new .col editor. I don�t know how easy they will be to convert. Also some people made objects wich don�t have a collision at the top. In SA you will be able to get to the top of all buildings so everything will need a collision file.

I think conversion could be done automatically for the most part. However, there are still some unknowns in the new format, so that'll need some research first, as soon as SA PC is out. Plus, SA uses tons of new surface types (also for procedural objects like grass), what needs fine-tuning by hand.

QUOTE
SOUND

Sound now works completely differently. They are now in .pak files. I don�t know if anyone has been able to crack them yet but at the moment I can�t.

Those .pak files are in a PS2 specific format, don't worry about them yet. I think we'll get our common mp3, wav and adf files, along with that simple audio archive.

QUOTE
I hope I haven�t missed anything out

You have.

MAP FILES

ipl and ide files changed slightly, a few parameters were added or left out, and there are some new flag values. Conversion could easily be done by some script/tool. Also paths are pretty much the same, just one parameter was added.
We might get problems with those binary ipl files, and that new map management file named cinfo.bin, but it remains to be seen if they are still in the PC version.

ANIMATION FILES

The ifp files have a new, compressed format. Conversion could easily be done with a tool, but afaik we don't have any custom animations yet anyway.

MISC

SA has a new feature called "TXD parents". Frequently used textures aren't copied to all TXDs that need them, but are rather in "global" TXDs, that get extended by the specific ones. With that we can optimize a lot of existing TXDs.

The water uses a new ascii file format. Conversion should be no problem.

Text files (gxt) are using hashes now, might be a hurdle to create/convert them, depends on the tool that get released.

And all the other new files and features I forgot about...

Pumpkin Zone
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#4

Posted 17 April 2005 - 08:28 PM

I think you guys should leave the resturants, but just for health purposes only. I really enjoyed the whole getting fat and getting muscle thing of San An but since you guys don't want it, you should just leave the resturants. Just go in, eat, get some health, no fat.

sAdIsTiCmAcHiNe
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#5

Posted 17 April 2005 - 08:34 PM

@Steve on the C-like compiler:

If you're referring to my project, its coming along slowly. Its now my final project for Comp Sci class, so I have some steady time to work on it.

steve-m
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#6

Posted 17 April 2005 - 11:00 PM

I was referring to this one. How many are there actually?? notify.gif

Officer Pulaski
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#7

Posted 17 April 2005 - 11:49 PM

QUOTE (Knife @ Apr 17 2005, 10:52)
THINGS TO GET RID OF

I personally think that all the food/muscle/girlfriend crap should be taken out. I am guessing some people like it though so maybe you should be able to turn it on or off.

monocle.gif Girlfriends shoudnt be taken out there optional (unless nobody feels like making them)
food/muscle is good to have to make the character look better

I can talk about anything else because im not a mod dontgetit.gif monocle.gif

sAdIsTiCmAcHiNe
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#8

Posted 18 April 2005 - 12:05 AM

Wow, didn't realize someone was that far along with one. Might be time to pick another project.

Knife
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#9

Posted 19 April 2005 - 05:38 PM

Added some extra points to the top:

Extra Possibilities

With San Andreas, Myriad can be taken to the next level. With more cars to be replaced and more space to build the possibilities are endless (well not quite). There will be room for yet more islands although, at the rate Myriad is going the three islands that fit in VC will not be completed. Hopefully with Myriad in SA it will get people more interested as SA is a newer game.

Who dose what?

Simple organization will be needed. People will probably convert their own lots, cars ect. Illspirit will probably convert the main islands. One thing I was thinking about is Respawns island. I believe all .dff and .col files will need to be converted to with so many objects hopefully someone will create a program that can change the format of mass amounts of files.

Polls and asking the Myriad community

There will be some things that will need to be decided like the food/muscle thing.

Mini-mini things

Possibility of an airport as they now have a use
All cars are modable (like putting flames on a police car)
Countryside
More weapons, cars, ect ect

Evo_
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#10

Posted 20 April 2005 - 12:19 AM

so dus that means that the extra stuff, spoilers, scoops, and even cloths are an entire new model, not just added on to the model?

Gtatothemax12
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#11

Posted 06 May 2005 - 07:20 PM

MYriad island in sa would rock like a light rail to myriad island or the panes go their

Urban Legend
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#12

Posted 06 May 2005 - 08:36 PM

This would take at least 3+ years suicidal.gif

caponester
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#13

Posted 06 May 2005 - 08:38 PM

I think the best strategy for the conversion would be to start from scratch

Let Illspirit convert all the baseland for all islands, once this is done the weapons and cars can all be converted. In the case of the cars lots of work will need to be done, the weapons on the other hand can be converted straight.

Once this is done lots should begin to be converted, one by one dealing with any issues that may arrise during the process.

Then lastly the mission script can be dealt with.

Knife
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#14

Posted 07 May 2005 - 07:32 AM

I think the lots should be converted before cars ect. Personally I think lots are more important

Pulseczar
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#15

Posted 09 May 2005 - 08:10 PM

Wouldn't it make sense to make the islands a lot larger since SA has so much space?

caponester
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#16

Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:59 PM

QUOTE (Pulseczar @ May 9 2005, 20:10)
Wouldn't it make sense to make the islands a lot larger since SA has so much space?

So your basically proposing we start from square 1? How about we just add more islands? Make Myriad some sort of island chain.

Pulseczar
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#17

Posted 09 May 2005 - 11:04 PM

I wouldn't be against just one single large island, but I guess that's a little boring. blush.gif

A chain of islands would be good. biggrin.gif

spaceeinstein
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#18

Posted 10 May 2005 - 01:18 AM

Just to let you know, the definition for "myriad" is "many". So if you say "Myriad Islands", it is expected to have many islands.

Kained But Able
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#19

Posted 10 May 2005 - 03:45 PM

What about the possibility of animals? I'm sure it wouldnt be all that hard, its just a case of remodeling peds into the shape of animals. Think of the fun you could have capping cows in a field...

spaceeinstein
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#20

Posted 10 May 2005 - 06:34 PM

No animals. You need separate animations for animals and I think no one ever released custom animations before.

Black-hawk
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#21

Posted 10 May 2005 - 08:02 PM

QUOTE (spaceeinstein @ May 10 2005, 18:34)
No animals. You need separate animations for animals and I think no one ever released custom animations before.

There have been several ~new animation~ mods, but they take too much time for perfect movement on the models. But didn't R* say something about helping players "make their own worlds" in SA?

caponester
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#22

Posted 10 May 2005 - 09:04 PM

QUOTE (Black-hawk @ May 10 2005, 20:02)
There have been several ~new animation~ mods, but they take too much time for perfect movement on the models. But didn't R* say something about helping players "make their own worlds" in SA?

what the hell?! Can you show me these new animation mods? I wasn't aware that any such mod had ever been completed.

The closest I know off was a remake of the gta3 intro for the Liberty City mod which used new animations I believe, But I didn't think it was possible.

JernejL
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#23

Posted 11 May 2005 - 05:49 AM

QUOTE (steve-m @ Apr 17 2005, 18:30)
But to use new features like UV animation and reflections (for dff) and mipmaps (for txd), we'd have to create new files.

vice city and gta3 support mipmapping txd's, you should know this confused.gif

illspirit
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#24

Posted 11 May 2005 - 09:45 AM

Delfi, the txd's may support mipmaps, but apparently the old engines ignore them when used for map geometry. Or do you know something we don't? wow.gif

JernejL
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#25

Posted 11 May 2005 - 10:27 AM

QUOTE (illspirit @ May 11 2005, 10:45)
Delfi, the txd's may support mipmaps, but apparently the old engines ignore them when used for map geometry. Or do you know something we don't? wow.gif

who said that engine ignores it? i wouldn't say so. dozingoff.gif

it is just that only few txd's actualy have mipmapped images, i think that
cheetah.txd is one of them, just to make everyones life easier txd workshop
strips all mipmapping data if found, you know that image data is *2 larger if
all mipmapping levels are present this makes sense that r* didn't use them a lot.

steve-m
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#26

Posted 11 May 2005 - 12:33 PM

Yes, mipmaps are there, but not used by the game. I did several tests, apparently they disabled it. Or did you get mipmaps working? wow.gif

RainingAcid
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#27

Posted 11 May 2005 - 03:05 PM

Why not just keep San Andreas there? You can MI far out in the ocean. Like it's island. Then you can fly there with a plane or jet or travel by boat.

caponester
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#28

Posted 11 May 2005 - 03:44 PM

QUOTE (RainingAcid @ May 11 2005, 15:05)
Why not just keep San Andreas there? You can MI far out in the ocean. Like it's island. Then you can fly there with a plane or jet or travel by boat.

I doubt the game would be able to handle that, Myriad Islands incase you didn't notice is rather high poly, and thats at the moment, never mind when all 4 islands are out, filled up, add on SA and your games gonna burn.

Besides SA fools you, theres not enough ocean to fit the entire Myriad Islands in there, maybe enough for Illcom Island (the island out now) but once you add Respawns city and Illspirits northern islands I doubt it would fit

And we don't want MI to be an add on, we want to create a completely different game.

JoaoBio
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#29

Posted 11 May 2005 - 04:12 PM

QUOTE (caponester @ May 11 2005, 16:44)
QUOTE (RainingAcid @ May 11 2005, 15:05)
Why not just keep San Andreas there? You can MI far out in the ocean. Like it's island. Then you can fly there with a plane or jet or travel by boat.

I doubt the game would be able to handle that, Myriad Islands incase you didn't notice is rather high poly, and thats at the moment, never mind when all 4 islands are out, filled up, add on SA and your games gonna burn.

Besides SA fools you, theres not enough ocean to fit the entire Myriad Islands in there, maybe enough for Illcom Island (the island out now) but once you add Respawns city and Illspirits northern islands I doubt it would fit

And we don't want MI to be an add on, we want to create a completely different game.

Wtf... Isn't the boundaries infinite on Sa now? I thought it god damn was... If they are we could import MI, Vc and Lc to Sa... But then again i doubt it would be capable to handle so much polys... And myriad is very low poly compared to SA, just look at San Fierro it's incredibly high poly... So is The mountain...

illspirit
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#30

Posted 11 May 2005 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE (JoaoBio @ May 11 2005, 12:12)
Wtf... Isn't the boundaries infinite on Sa now? I thought it god damn was... If they are we could import MI, Vc and Lc to Sa... But then again i doubt it would be capable to handle so much polys... And myriad is very low poly compared to SA, just look at San Fierro it's incredibly high poly... So is The mountain...

Yea, there's no physical boundries there, but the radar map ends a few hundred meters in any direction from the land. And after an unknown number of kilometers, the game goes all glitchy. We could stick Myriad out there, but how would anyone know where they're going? Unless they've made it so we can add to the radar. Besides, Myriad is suppposed to be on the east coast anyway.


Oh, and I'd hardly call Mount Chilliad high poly. It's really rather blocky up close. confused.gif




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