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jcab42
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#61

Posted 28 March 2005 - 12:30 PM

Thanks guys, this is a perfect example of how important it is to be descriptive. Charles, it may seem overly descriptive to say "I selected the model, clicked the vertices button, but it never switched to vertices mode" but better to make sure there's no misunderstanding so people know exactly where you ran into your problem. I gotta go to work right now but when I get back I'll get a screeny up for you.

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charlesbesso
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#62

Posted 28 March 2005 - 11:08 PM

Jcab it doesn't matter there's a myrid of other problems invovled here.

a) between .3ds to .x the scale of the orginal .dff is lost completely, so when you finally have your new low poly model done the scale of it is immense (imagine it making block_maindrag's outer walls huge enough to block off the bridge, which it does) so what's the point... I can create the low poly model of the building but the tools we have destroy the scale of the object making this work worthless.

b) until I have a set value for scale for the DFF IO script for 3ds max no work can progress (I encourage anyone that knows the correct value for export scale of VC dff's to contact me as even 1.0 makes the model immense in proportions, 0.1 make it much closer to the actual size of the model but was still too large in scale)

c) there's a bug between sketchup's exported DWF/DXF files when imported into 3ds max which creates vertices and faces I didn't model into it ryan has experianced the same issue.

so there we got a crippling scale issue and a slightly less crippling but annoying extra poly glitch.

anyone that can be of some help please speak your mind

(does anyone know what the max script that comes with colleditor is for? (1-7? which one?)

jcab42
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#63

Posted 29 March 2005 - 02:50 AM

I tried a few DFFs and I finally did find one that made zmod act squirly. I've never seen this bug since I switched to XP so I wonder if that has anything... Of course you don't need to alter the DFFs, just the COLs. Whatever the case, I can respect yall's desire to use Max or Sketchup to edit.

I never knew there was a problem with the DFF IO script. I garantee there's no problem going from DFF -> zmod -> 3ds. Once again, you lost me with "the correct value for export scale of VC dff's". You shouldn't need to export DFFs. Am I missing something? What version(s) of Max do you have and how are exporting to .X?

charlesbesso
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#64

Posted 29 March 2005 - 05:59 AM

well I was going sketchup export 3ds import 3d studio max then using DFF io to export as dff then generating an x in z mod and using collmaker to make it. I have to do it this method becuase of time restraints, this building I'm working on's orginal collision file is an LOD which has no definitions and nothing that is exportable. therefor I must use the DFF in sketchup to remove all unnessary details by hand and then add in what needs to be there like backs of walls and roof tops.

oh and on my last post ryan has made me aware of a 3d studio max plugin for exporting col files, though I don't know where it is located as of yet.

jcab42
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#65

Posted 29 March 2005 - 12:07 PM

That's why I was wondering what version of Max you have. Steve_M made a Max COL export script but I think it only works for r3. There's also the Panda X exporter that also was made for r3 but there's probably other exporters for .X and there's other programs like Deep Exploration that will import a 3ds and export X.

charlesbesso
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#66

Posted 29 March 2005 - 04:28 PM Edited by charlesbesso, 31 March 2005 - 03:35 AM.

I'm using COL IO B2 script for 3ds max 6

all col's below are final unless otherwise noted until access to Vizup is gained.

Block_Maindrag - IndustSE

update 1 - block_maindrag

notes - small steps removed, unstandable overhangs removed.

block maindrag (use colleditor to import into IndustSE.col in data/gta3maps/industSE/)

Chinabuilds09 - IndustSW

update 1 - Chinabuilds09

notes - has slanted roof plane so feet stick through, small steps and unlandable overhangs removed.

chinabuilds09 (use colleditor to import into IndustSW.col in data/gta3maps/industSW/)

indbilbridge1 - IndustSW

update 1 indbilbridge1

notes - all orginal details kept added solidity for the top

indbilbridge1 (use colleditor to import into IndustSW.col in data/gta3maps/industSW/)

I need to know what the project leaders want, at a scale factor of 0.083 on indbilbridge1 the outside wall is slightly smaller then rockstar's orginal, whereas at 0.084 it is slightly larger also at 8.3 your feet sink through the roof texture whereas at 8.4 they don't. ideally the program would allow a variable half way inbetween 0.083 and 0.084 but that isn't allowed. so I need a decision from the powers that be.

----------------------------bufferspace------------------------------------------

use moo mapper to find item, please provide feedback here.

Ryan_
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#67

Posted 31 March 2005 - 10:33 PM

I was thinking it was more appropriate to release cols in a pcak rather then 1 at a time. You will end up with a huge list of cols here.
I am going to get IndustNE out for the first bit, then go from there.
Charlse, are you skipping to the third island like you mentioned?

charlesbesso
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#68

Posted 01 April 2005 - 04:49 AM

I really need the powers that be to make a decision on what they want done with scale before I preceed.

and I did what you suggested ryan importing both into sketchup and editing the orginal but it ends up the same way as just doing the dff because of the scale issue, I'm not going to do any work until they make a decision on what they want I've provided these models and explained the differences between 0.083 and 0.084 so they can tell me which they'd prefer. (all the above are 0.084 models)

Craig Kostelecky
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#69

Posted 01 April 2005 - 09:32 AM

QUOTE (charlesbesso @ Mar 31 2005, 22:49)
I really need the powers that be to make a decision on what they want done with scale before I preceed.

I'm not really sure what you mean by scale in this situation. Plus, I know very little about any sort of mapping issues. So I'm not the guy to give you a decision. I completely trust the opinions of the mapping gurus that have helped us out (jcab, DJQ, Gforce, etc) So if any of those guys want to make a decision on what's best for the mod in this area, I'll back them up.

charlesbesso
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#70

Posted 01 April 2005 - 10:02 AM

fair enough, ok to the mappers here's the issue, when you export a col with the io script or using steve m's col mapper you have to scale the col model to the proper size. so I'll take the time and explain just like with the DFF IO script the scale number is by default 1.0 which makes the model ingame enormous, I worked this number down to something close to the actual size of the model ingame (0.084) this number makes the col's conform to the shape of the actual model very well but makes some issues crop up such as the side wall collison on indbilbridge1 being thicker then in the orginal col. however when you scale it to (0.083) then the wall is fixed but claudes feet sink into the rooftop's (I surmise that rockstar had an export plugin that could sustain more digits in it's variable such as 0.0835 being the "right fit" to make the models match up perfect however we don't have that luxary) so what is more important in the end for the mod the walls being more aligned with the roof's having the player chatacter's feet sink in OR the feet not sinking in and the walls being thicker then in the orginal col's.

I will wait for feedback, note the above col's I've created are using the 0.084 scale keep this in mind when testing them ingame.

I'll wait until I get feedback on this issue.

I would hope someone on this broad is skilled enough to manually correct these issues but I do not possess such skills.

- charles

Ryan_
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#71

Posted 01 April 2005 - 06:13 PM

I dont seem to have any trouble getting the col to the right size. Do you right click object and click on scale? It starts at 100 percent, and your right, it should be around 8-9% or so. it is very easy to do this way in 3ds max. the col exporter is not what makes it larger, its exporting to and from sketchup that does it. try it that way.

Charles, we need to talk more, you make these minor issues seem like armagedon(sp?).

spaceeinstein
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#72

Posted 01 April 2005 - 07:48 PM

Hey, after ya'll finish with the cols, can I make the cols GTA3 authentic with the correct col surfaces? I already did it with the first three.

charlesbesso
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#73

Posted 01 April 2005 - 11:28 PM Edited by charlesbesso, 01 April 2005 - 11:34 PM.

ok. well in studio max 6 when I use scale on the model there is no numerical value, so I'd have to guess what 8-9% was, and are you saying if somehow I could just scale the model in max to 8-9% and then use the col script to export it as 1.0 it would be an exactly the same size as it was scaled in max?

spaceeinstein I don't know what you changed for the most part block_maindrag is all concrete except for the center piece which never existed in the first place before, so what did you put in the middle for a surface? and as it's modeled it's concrete so do we need someone to remodel to match your surface?

Ryan_
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#74

Posted 01 April 2005 - 11:41 PM

maybe it is because of the version difference, but when i right click the object in max and go scale, at the bottom of my screen i can adjust the scale there, then push the little key shaped button.

jcab42
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#75

Posted 02 April 2005 - 02:36 AM

If that doesn work then try F12. That should bring up the "transform type-in" box (I guess for Max 6 as well).

This scaling buisness is new to me. I've been modding GTA3/VC for over two years now and I've never heard of someone having that problem. Using the Col script generator, the col maker, or COL IO all yield virtually exact in my experience.

Whatever the case, the COL should match the DFF as close as possible.

QUOTE (charlesbesso @ Apr 1 2005, 17:28)
...and as it's modeled it's concrete so do we need someone to remodel to match your surface?

no need to remodel. Steve's Col Editor gives you the ability to change faces to any type of surface, and if you export a CST using the Max script, you can assign materials to surfaces to make the process easier, but you still have to do a little find an replace. Much easier than selecting faces in the editor... don't worry, spaceeinstein will sort it out wink.gif

charlesbesso
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#76

Posted 02 April 2005 - 04:16 AM

ok well all my issues are resolved thanks to ryan, he'll be doing stunton island I'll be doing shoreside vale and we'll be meeting back up n portland, the cst export script that comes with colleditor didn't work in max 6 for me, but I'll try it now that I'm using 7, the scale issue comes from exporting dff's
as dwg then inserting into sketchup (which is way easier to use to model in our newness then max by it's self, then exporting as 3ds. but it's fixed thanks to ryan's explanation of his process, oh I wasn't aware you could change the surface and by context the texture used. my mistake well then good work

I can't speak for ryan but I'll email you my finished col's for resurfacing space just pm me your email address.

Ryan_
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#77

Posted 02 April 2005 - 11:46 PM

i am perfectly happy with anyone editing anything i do for the mod, especially if it makes it better. But, might it not be smart for charles and i to set the proper surface upon export as col? is there more to it then that? we just need to know what surface it should be set to.

charlesbesso
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#78

Posted 03 April 2005 - 01:40 AM Edited by charlesbesso, 05 April 2005 - 02:46 PM.

can someone direct me to the person that can change my nickname on this account? I need it switched to [DMA]Blunted (my mta gang name) for the outro and the board.

^- update, created new comcast email address registered the nickname [DMA]Blunted to [email protected] GTAforums.com fails to send me validation email (hence me not posting on it right now) someone that's higher up validate my nickname since your e-mail server fails to mail me the validation e-mail period end period.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

shoreside vale col's 100% complete

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

upon attempting to load the game with all of my improved shoreside col's (if I use just one less new col this error doesn't happen) I get this error msg in Debug View (makes it 75 percent of the way then crashes)

[1068] Loading object types from DATA\gta3maps\subroads\subroads.IDE ...
[1068] LODersubridge1 was draw last
[1068] Loading object types from DATA\gta3maps\2dfix\landNE_rev\landNE_rev.IDE ...
[1068] Loading object types from DATA\gta3maps\2dfix\landSW_rev\landSW_rev.IDE ...
[1068] Loading object types from DATA\gta3maps\2dfix\extra_rev\extra_rev.IDE ...
[1068] Loading object types from DATA\gta3maps\seafloor\seafloor.ide ...
[1068] Loading collision file MODELS\COLL\GENERIC.COL
[1068] colmodel chairsntableml can't find a modelinfo
[1068] colmodel LODjumbo_01 can't find a modelinfo
[1068] colmodel ap_learjet1_01 can't find a modelinfo
[1068] colmodel ap_radar1_01 can't find a modelinfo
[1068] colmodel ap_jumbo_01 can't find a modelinfo
[1068] Loading collision file MODELS\COLL\LCGENERIC.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\INDUSTNE_REV\INDUSTNE_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\INDUSTNW_REV\INDUSTNW_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\INDUSTSE_REV\INDUSTSE_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\INDUSTSW_REV\INDUSTSW_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\COMNBTM_REV\COMNBTM_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\COMNTOP_REV\COMNTOP_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\COMSE_REV\COMSE_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\COMSW_REV\COMSW_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\LANDNE_REV\LANDNE_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\LANDSW_REV\LANDSW_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\EXTRA_REV\EXTRA_REV.COL
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\comNbtm\comNbtm.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\comNtop\comNtop.col
[1068] colmodel LODehouse1z1 can't find a modelinfo
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\comroad\comroad.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\comSE\comSE.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\comSW\comSW.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\indroads\indroads.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\industNE\industNE.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\industNW\industNW.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\industSE\industSE.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\industSW\industSW.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\landNE\landNE.col
[1068] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\landSW\landSW.col
[1068] colmodel airpshadows01 can't find a modelinfo
[1068] -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1068] Exception at address: 0x00580887
[1068]
[1068] Registers -----------------------------------------------------
[1068] EAX: 0x0012FCCC EBX: 0x00000000 ECX: 0x0012FCCC EDX: 0x0014B028
[1068] ESI: 0x007D7C42 EDI: 0x001ABE2C EBP: 0x00000A55 ESP: 0x0012FCB4
[1068] EFLAGS: 10000001000000010
[1068]
[1068] -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1068] -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1068] VC-DBG shutting down..
[1068] GTA: LC detached

so from what I'm reading it crashes right after failing to find model info for airpshadows01.

I'm going to reinstall beta 2's col's then import all my shoreside vale col's and see if it reproduces.

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update, ok reverted back to default's it loads fine, these are the steps that happen right after where the crash was happening.

[860] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\making\making.col
[860] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\subroads\subroads.col
[860] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\temppart\temppart.col
[860] Loading collision file DATA\GTA3MAPS\seafloor\seafloor.col
[860] CObjectData: Cannot find object adboard1
[860] CObjectData: Cannot find object taxisign
[860] CObjectData: Cannot find object ak47
[860] CObjectData: Cannot find object rocket
[860] CObjectData: Cannot find object shotgun
[860] CObjectData: Cannot find object m16
[860] CObjectData: Cannot find object savecardoor

so somewhere inbetween failing to load airpshadows01's model data and loading making.col is when the crash happens


question, has progress been made on the ambul_m, train & ilanddid threads crashing?

[DMA]Blunted
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#79

Posted 07 April 2005 - 09:11 AM

This is Charles Besso, this is my new nickname and should be the name on the outro for LC.

Shoreside Vale Col's complete all bug's fixed.

Craig Kostelecky
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#80

Posted 07 April 2005 - 09:36 AM

Just so there's no confusion I'd also like to point out that Charles's new name doesn't mean that he's Blunted1 who helped us several months ago.

Ryan_
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#81

Posted 08 April 2005 - 07:19 PM Edited by Ryan_, 20 April 2005 - 06:28 PM.

i was thinking... maybe it would be a good idea to have this mod as unofficial until every object necessary has been agreed as found and edited for col. At which point me and charlse (and anyone else) will be able to go over them all again to make any final changes before you decide wether or not to call this official.

when the "unofficial" files come out, would it be too much to ask for reports on col issues? maybe a co-ord of object, better yet model name, something like that would be nice. also a description of the issue.

i think there may be a little issue with the colfiles pertaining to the base land models, in some of the areas your were not able to go but now can, there seems to be invisable walls that are not in my collision files. i will need to look into this a bit further before i really know whats up.

Ryan_
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#82

Posted 11 April 2005 - 10:50 PM Edited by Ryan_, 11 April 2005 - 10:55 PM.

Kind of a bump, but I also had some questions that maybe someone here could answer. Why is it that we need all the *_rev files? Would it be possible to merge the normal and the _rev files into one?
I have a small issue with the colfiles, some buildings just are not properly solid, even though i edited their colfile. I am wondering about the *_rev.col files in the gta3maps folder. All of the files in the *_rev.col's have [-]. But why is this necessary? Is/Was there any documentation made about/during the process of making LC work?
Also, why are their map ipl files in the gta3maps folder? Do the ones that are not called by the gta_vc.dta file get used by LC at all?
Sorry so many questions, but any insight would be great.
Thanks.

[DMA]Blunted
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#83

Posted 12 April 2005 - 03:46 AM

Ryan, the invisable walls are because of extra vertices that are generated inbetween the import export cross pattern from sketchup to 3ds max, this is how I fixed that issue, after you've exported it from sketchup load it into 3ds max and select the object in question, then go to the modifier tab and scroll down to optimizie on the default value of 4.0, export this file as 3ds and overwrite the file you just imported, use ctrl+n to load a new project and import the optimized 3ds into the scene. now select the object and on the right click menu scale enter this value for the x y or z (they will all change to the same thing) 8.335 use the right click menu to go back to the select tool, now use the max script menu to open the COL IO script. set the surfaces to standard press get info, it should report the lower number of faces as the optimize did, now set it's item name and save a col from it.

that should fix your invisable walls issue (I had it too on block_maindrag for example)

here's my settings for exporting from sketchup so there's little confusion
objects = single object
appearance = output 2-sided, materials

try this with your problem models , also do me a favor and make me a list of the building's that are still not solid after your changes and perhaps send me those col's in a zip and I'll see what's wrong with them ingame and suggest how you can fix them through modeling if the above method doesn't produce better results.

Craig Kostelecky
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#84

Posted 12 April 2005 - 04:09 AM

Ryan and Charles, I have all of your cols in my copy of the game right now. There are some issues that I'll start collecting (like entire buildings being in the wrong place (or not solid at all). Hopefully I can get a list of the problematic buildings in the near future. Or I could upload the new cols so anybody can test them.

Mark Pagliaro
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#85

Posted 12 April 2005 - 11:38 AM

_rev files are the reverse side of the 2d fixes they are done seperately otherwise the whole model will be missing light data rather then just the _rev. With the dff importer for max this may be fixable as 1 model.

Ryan_
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#86

Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:31 PM Edited by Ryan_, 12 April 2005 - 08:34 PM.

well, with my cols i drove all around. didnt seem to be any in the wrong place. unless you mean maybe we mixed up a few cols?
Mark, thanks for that info.
my unsolid building issue is not a result of backward faces on the models.
craig, you mean there is a totally unsolid building?
charles, i thought you told me to optimize in max as 1.0. Now did you say 4.0?
is 1.0 what causes those walls now?

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#87

Posted 13 April 2005 - 06:34 AM

well I was using optimize 1.0, but then I started looking at the poly/vert counts and they totalled out exactly the same regardless if I used a 1.0 value or the default 4.0 so I just started using 4.0 since it makes no difference.

Ryan_
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#88

Posted 13 April 2005 - 09:56 PM Edited by Ryan_, 13 April 2005 - 09:59 PM.

if the invisalbe wall thing is caused my max/skepthup imoprt/export, then whay dont i see the walls in col editor?
craig, did anywone find out why some col edited buildings wont take the new col?
i know of 2 buildings i colled which are not solid as supposed to be.

Craig Kostelecky
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#89

Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:07 AM

QUOTE (Ryan_ @ Apr 13 2005, 16:56)
craig, did anywone find out why some col edited buildings wont take the new col?
i know of 2 buildings i colled which are not solid as supposed to be.

Not yet. But then again, I haven't shared the cols with anybody else yet. And I'm certainly not an expert in this area. If anybody wants me to release the temp cols, let me know and I'll upload them.

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#90

Posted 14 April 2005 - 06:59 PM

I think I know the problem, ok in sketchup you sometimes have the cursor turn green to indicate an end point, and sometimes it turns black to indicate an intersection, when rebuilding your col's only use the end points when you can visually see there's nothing else intersectiing and on all other points use the intersecting black points. update me if this helps.




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