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Ryan_
  • Ryan_

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#1

Posted 21 March 2005 - 01:37 AM Edited by Ryan_, 21 February 2006 - 05:35 PM.

If you dont have the colfiles2.rar get it here.
http://www.y-less.com/vc/colfiles2.rar
Thank you Y-Less for hosting!

The edited files were made by DMA Blunted and myself, most have been tweaked by spaceinstien for materials.
The edited files are at the end of each col archive.

spaceeinstein
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#2

Posted 21 March 2005 - 01:45 AM

But these things does show up in MooMapper...

Ryan_
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#3

Posted 21 March 2005 - 02:24 AM Edited by Ryan_, 21 March 2005 - 03:24 AM.

I see, your right. Sorry

Im wondering why there are so many colfiles all over the place. There in gta3.img, there in gta3maps/temppart/, and there are more in every other gta3map folder.
Are they ALL necessary because on the conversion of LC?
If I change one, is it necessary to change others that are the same, or is it only necessary to edit the ones in the gta3.igta_vc.dat only calls on cols wihtin the DATA\GTA3MAPS\2DFIX\ folders. Are these the only cols that are used in the game when it come to the map?

Thank you for all your input.

Diamond Joe Quimby
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#4

Posted 21 March 2005 - 04:46 AM

The COLS inside the gta3.img are the ones used in the game, along with the 2Dfix COL files that are called for in the gta_vc.dat file.


Ryan_
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#5

Posted 21 March 2005 - 05:13 AM Edited by Ryan_, 21 March 2005 - 07:43 AM.

I have figured out my problems and sucessfully edited a few colfiles. I believe I can do this and am applying for the/part of the position of making the rooftops solid.
My method is simple, but I am no expert and would like to know if It will run into any issues.
Method:
export dff (and corresponding col if necessary) from gta3.img, import dff to zmod and export as x file. edit x file as per steve m's instructions to avoid double faces, make col file from x file using col maker.
Edit colfiles and rebuild gta3.img if necessary
Thats it.
Does this seem proper to everyone?
Thanks again for all your help.

Y_Less
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#6

Posted 21 March 2005 - 11:45 AM

That will create very high poly col's. The cols are low poly, maybe just (for example) a 10 poly box over a skyscraper (not usually that low but you get the idea). Import the model into z-mod and build a new model over it so it just about covers all the major parts (stuff like window sills etc dont matter), then export that as .x and do the other crap.

charlesbesso
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#7

Posted 21 March 2005 - 01:56 PM

ryan if you're up to it I have a list of 25 collision glitches I compiled last night with screenshots of them all if you're up to taking a look and perhaps correcting them.

incase you want the file it's at collision.zip

here's my notes I compiled on the problems I hope this helps, I'll be searching for more tomorrow and compiling screenshots and making more notes

collision1.jpg upper-half of building is non-solid needs collision files to fit proper height/width

collision2.jpg all four rooftops solid need collision files edited to proper roof heights

collision3.jpg building past this point is non-solid needs collision file for proper height

collision4.jpg rooftops solid but need to have collision files leveled to proper height

collision5.jpg all building's using same collision file, need individual files for ground in center as well as all buildings in this group

collision6.jpg higher roofs infront non-solid in need of collision files, lower roofs solid single collision file for entire roof, needs seperate collision files for each individual height

collision7.jpg rooftop solid but collision file needs to be raised to proper height of building

collision8.jpg rooftop solid but collision file needs to be raised to proper height of building

collision9.jpg rooftop solid but collision file needs to be lowered to proper height of building

collision10.jpg blue rooftop buildings on right all solid but in need of adjustments to proper height

collision11.jpg taller rooftops non-solid, need collision files

collision12.jpg rooftop solid but collision file(s) needs to be adjusted to rooftop heights

collision13.jpg smokestack solid up until this point, needs collision files

collision14.jpg the other smokestack solid up until this point, needs collision files

collision15.jpg top of structure is non-solid, needs collision file

collision15.jpg a: underside is non-solid needs collision file, b: top of structure is non-solid needs collision file (there are two of these in the portland docks both have the same exact issue)

collision16.jpg a: entire structure above this point non-solid needs collision file (there are two of these with the same problem on portland docks)

collision17.jpg a: minor issue this little part is non-solid, at some point in the future it should be fixed with a collision file

collision18.jpg a: minor issue boats are non-solid, needs collision file, there are six dupelicates

collision19.jpg a: rooftop's collision file extends over rooftop b:, file needs to be lowered to proper height of b:

collision20.jpg a: rooftop's collision file height makes b: c: & d: impossible to land on, file(s) need to be altered for proper heights of b: c: & d:

collision21.jpg a: rooftop's collision file extends over b: through e:, need collision files for proper heights of b: through e:

collision22.jpg a: rooftop's collision file extends over b: through e:, need collision files for proper heights of b: through e:

collision23.jpg a: rooftop's collision file extend over b:, need collision files for proper height of b:

collision24.jpg a: rooftop's collision file extends over b: through e: (and the backside of the buildings edges you can't see in the pic), need collision files for proper heights of b: through e: and the back

collision25.jpg a: rooftop's collision file extends over b: through c: (and is solid on a: behind the building where there is no ledge), a: needs to be altered for the backside with no ledge & b: - c: need collision files

charlesbesso
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#8

Posted 21 March 2005 - 03:17 PM Edited by charlesbesso, 21 March 2005 - 04:07 PM.

I tried to figure out how to do this work myself but all I was left with was confusion good luck guys.

can someone point me to a turorial on this, I imported the model into zmodeler 1.07 but it was untextured since I don't know what textures the dff needs, from that point I just tryed fiddling around getting a grip of this and exported it as a dx mesh then edited the file as steve_m's tutorial says and then tried using his collmaker on it... but I'm lost at this point since it's in german and I speak/read only english I got some error msg about a 3 being invovled.

Y_Less
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#9

Posted 21 March 2005 - 05:00 PM

1) Don't double post.

2) Try the tutorials section for tutorials.

3) You don't need textures to do cols.

4) Go to options->language to change the language.

Forty
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#10

Posted 21 March 2005 - 05:11 PM

Yes, please use the EDIT button in the future instead of posting twice.

Ryan_
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#11

Posted 21 March 2005 - 05:52 PM

Ok, what is a good way to see how many polys are in the col?
And, what is a good polycount for cols?
And, how bad of an effect will having higher poly cols running in the game?
How is it then that GTA VC allows col files to be accurate without using so many polys in its col files?
I read somewhere that VC has no problen with individual col files that are under 2000 polys. I this right?
I like being able to access all balconies, decks etc. on all buildings. Is there a better way to create accurate col files with less polys?

Currently I have 3 model cols working sweet in-game.
I also have every relevent x file, for every relevent col , for objects within the industNE.ipl ready to be made to new col files.

At the moment I will transfer all the cols I have and see what happens.\

Wish me luck, and I'll be back in a bit.

Ryan

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#12

Posted 21 March 2005 - 06:00 PM

The game still has to load the cols like other parts of data such as models. High col files could possibly slow the game down. Col files should be as low poly as possible for this project. You dont need all the detail that a biulding has just the general shape. Like if it was a skyscraper you just need a rectangle that follows main shape opf the building. Unless you have specific doorways you think are necessary you can soon work around them, then all you need is the general shape.

If you look around VC you will see that not every single part of the model has a col, but then again R*^ made col files that were low poly, they obviously did this for a reason.

Ryan_
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#13

Posted 21 March 2005 - 06:18 PM Edited by Ryan_, 21 March 2005 - 07:18 PM.

Well after taking a good look at the col files I have put in-game, they definatly are larger then their original counterparts.
However, with all the new car models that have come out ranging fron 5000 to 50000 (sometimes even higher) polys and with the way my PC handels them (AMD 1GHz/512 SDRAM/Radeon 9200), I don't think a bunch of 2000 poly (max) building models will harm performance that much, but at the moment I am not sure of the col files poly counts so I don't know yet.
What is a easy way to tell how many polys a col file has?
Does a col file has the same amount of polys as the dff file it was made from or does exporting as x file bring down the polycount some?

Edit: I was also wondering if zmod or any other 3d modeling software will give me the option to reduce a dff's polycount (automatically optimize if you will) before you export it to x file?

spaceeinstein
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#14

Posted 21 March 2005 - 07:48 PM

If you drastically increase the col polys of the buildings just to solidfy one small roof, I'll make that an unofficial mod.

Craig Kostelecky
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#15

Posted 21 March 2005 - 08:44 PM

I don't think we're trying to drastically increase any amount of cols. Idealy we would have somebody who can simplify all of our cols so every building is solid (at least up to 300 units) and the game still runs the way it should.

Ryan_
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#16

Posted 21 March 2005 - 08:58 PM

I am not suggesting drastically increasing the polys in the col's, this is just where my experimentations have brought me so far.
It would seem already I have a col file with too many polys in it (crashes the game). Therefor, I have come to the conclusion that I MUST find a way to minimize polys within col files.
My main question now is HOW?
I thought I read somewhere at sometime that there was a way to minimize the amount of polys in a dff, if there is I could do this then make the x and col file from the optimized dff.
Anyways, thanks for the info.

ps. can someone edit the title and topic of the thread to something better?

Y_Less
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#17

Posted 21 March 2005 - 09:01 PM

Dont try converting the dff to col, it has too many polys.

As I said in a pm, import the dff and col into z-modeller then extend the col AROUND the dff, it doesn't have to be exact, just rough.

jcab42
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#18

Posted 21 March 2005 - 11:50 PM Edited by jcab42, 21 March 2005 - 11:53 PM.

Once you import the DFF into zmod you can remesh it by deleting all faces and then delete all vertices except the bottom four and top four (the only vertices you need to make the basic shape of the building) then reface the vertices and presto, optimized mesh.

Ryan_
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#19

Posted 22 March 2005 - 12:31 AM

will this work if there is an alley in the middle of the building? would it effect the alley?

Y_Less
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#20

Posted 22 March 2005 - 12:39 AM

Yes it would affect the alley.

Jcabs method would just put a huge solid block over the whole thing, not alot of use in all cases (although in some, e.g. the terraced houses in St. Marks, that method would be fine).

Although the cols are prefferably to be kept to a minimum, some detail must remain. E.g. the broken building (again in St. Marks), if you used that method on that, you would lose all the intricies of the damage, it would just be a lump, if you tried to fly through the gaps in the top of the wall, you would just him them. But not every little nook and cranny need to be cold over. As a general rule, if the detail is smaller than the player, it is not likely to affect him much, so you can smooth over it. But this is NOT a steadfast rule, there may be times when it is better or neccessary not to.

I am going to try compile a list of all the buildings that need updating/doing and put them in a topic for everyones reference. It would be much appreciated if anyone could help with this.

Ryan_
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#21

Posted 22 March 2005 - 12:56 AM

A list of buildings to follow would be great.
I am looking into different methods of polygon reduction and was wondering, has anyone used Max's or lightwave's poly reducer?
I would like to see how low I can get the col file polys while still keeping a fair amount of accuracy.

Hammer83
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#22

Posted 22 March 2005 - 02:13 AM

Ryan, back when GTAVC hasn't yet came out, I made a few cols to solidify ghost town for GTA3 using ZMod/3dMax. I don't have access to 3dMax anymore but this is what I remember (it was from a tutorial on somebody's site, i forgot too whose site it was):
- Import dff into ZMod.
- Export it as max-model (note that model name may be truncated).
- Open the model 3dstudio max. There is a tool called Optimizer there (at least that's what I think). You can play with parameters and reduce the number of faces that way.
- Export optimized model as x-file (you need Panda DirectX Exporter for that). Export model only, no materials, textures, just vertex data.
- Using Steve's ColMaker make a col out of x.

Ryan_
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#23

Posted 22 March 2005 - 03:02 AM

Hammer, I am on that exact tract right now. Thanks for boost of confidence!
I can get the col file polys reduced by about 65%, but the trial software I am using right now does not export 1 out of every 5 polys when you save (NuGraf). So, I can not use it unless I want invisable holes in the building. LOL
Again, ZMod and 3DMax I think is an answer.

Craig Kostelecky
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#24

Posted 22 March 2005 - 05:00 AM

It's nice to see some progress going on here. I've also renamed this thread so it looks like the official place to discuss the COL files.

I'd also like to publically thank Ryan_ for his efforts in tackling this subject. It's always nice to get new people involved in the mod.

charlesbesso
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#25

Posted 22 March 2005 - 07:49 AM Edited by charlesbesso, 22 March 2005 - 10:45 AM.

can someone help me I'm missing something obviously.

ok I'm trying to add collision to the dock crane in portland, which the col for is in /gta3maps/making/making.col listed as "dockcranescale"

I open the dff in z-modeler, add a new spline to the hole in question, fill it's surface so it's just two polygon's, I then exported it as .x and edited the file as per steve-m's tutorial, then I used colmaker and fliped the x axis as ryan suggested in pm, and saved as dockcranescale.col. then I used coleditor to load making.col and replaced the default dockcranscale with the newly created dockcranescale.col from colmaker. but when I go ingame it's still unsolid where I just edited it. any clue what I'm messing up in the process?

thanks for the help.

note the model has a slanted top, and zmod wont let me see the orginal vertices otherwise I'd just do a spline fill as two poly's on the col and export it, this model has high poly's on both the dff and col as it's a fairly complex object, I've tried using a new spline fill as stated but I have no idea how to weld the new spline to the orginal object.

jcab42
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#26

Posted 22 March 2005 - 12:09 PM

That's the same problem Ryan had before. Remember, the COLs you need to edit are the ones in the GTA3.IMG, not the ones in the directories.

Actually, I'd like to see all COLs taken out of the IMG. The IMG has a limit to the amount of files you can add to it. Does anyone know of a reason why we shouldn't just link the COLs in the gta_vc.dat (GTA3 style)?

charlesbesso
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#27

Posted 22 March 2005 - 12:31 PM Edited by charlesbesso, 22 March 2005 - 03:22 PM.

I'm using max now and the panda express is giving me errors the text it's generating has alot of referrances to "DWORD" so I think there's an api problem going on.

I have good news thanks to your help I have edited the dock crane and it is now solid as a rock ;] only took 6 more poly's to do it too. I'm going to try tackling some other collision's today, now I'm off to do another collision file, ryan you and me should start networking on what collision's which of us should handle so we don't overlap each other's progress. alright I'll be back in the forums later today hopefully with another postive update.

update - ok I did the same with indhibuild2, it's the building in collision1.jpg, it is substantly high in polygon's though if anyone comes up with a open source or freeware way to lower the polygon counts please point it out to me (ryan mentioned NuGraf but that's a $395 dollar plugin) one benefit of building the col out of the dff was that the balcony is completely solid including the barrier on the edge (high rise sniping anyone? ;] )

second update - ok I found a stand alone program called VizUP that automaticlly reduced the .col's without marring the model in any visual fashion problem being it's $700, if anyone knows modeler's ask around about an open source or freeware solution to this issue.

Hammer83
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#28

Posted 22 March 2005 - 05:45 PM

QUOTE (jcab42 @ Mar 22 2005, 07:09)
That's the same problem Ryan had before. Remember, the COLs you need to edit are the ones in the GTA3.IMG, not the ones in the directories.

Actually, I'd like to see all COLs taken out of the IMG. The IMG has a limit to the amount of files you can add to it. Does anyone know of a reason why we shouldn't just link the COLs in the gta_vc.dat (GTA3 style)?

I'd like to see this too. I'm not sure myself why cols were placed there, but I think the reason is because they didn't work outside of img.

charlesbesso
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#29

Posted 22 March 2005 - 07:30 PM

ok so I've got these items converted

indhibuild2
dockcranescale
redlightbuild11
newbuildind
Chinabuildnew1
Chinabuilds05
Chinabuilds07
ind_mainten5
pharmas

but the game now crashes, not to worry though I'll restore the beta 2 gta3.img and continue making new .col files for problem buildings and then once we work out the polygon reducer situation all these files will be available to be reworked. this also brings up another issue if all the added col's make the engine crash then perhaps we will have to use the polygon reducer on the actual ingame models themselves at some point, just a thought but something to consider if we want to get this mod finished.

Craig Kostelecky
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#30

Posted 22 March 2005 - 07:30 PM

If we can get it to work outside of the image, I fully support removing them from there.




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