Quantcast

Jump to content

» «
Photo

Dead newborn

79 replies to this topic
Dom0803
  • Dom0803

    Boss

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2002

#1

Posted 12 March 2005 - 10:47 PM

Right. My friend and myself, who is still here right now sitting behind me drinking wine.

He put forward to me a good question, which I said would make a good discussion here.

Ok so.. the question.

A new baby is born. Most say if a new born baby is clean and dies, it will go to heaven.
But. There's allways a but.
To go to heaven you must believe in God. A newborn baby is not in the world long enough to comprehend anything at all, even his own existance. Let alone find God.

So how could something that is hypothetically an athiest, go to heaven?


tehhunter
  • tehhunter

    ShaqFu2u

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 06 Nov 2002

#2

Posted 13 March 2005 - 12:28 AM

Thanks to Christianity, he would most definetly go to hell. How? Original Sin, due to Eve.

Dom0803
  • Dom0803

    Boss

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2002

#3

Posted 13 March 2005 - 12:37 AM

But how can it go to hell? You only go to Heaven or Hell if you believe in God. Since it does not/can't believe in God, it can't go to Heaven or Hell.

Where does it go to?

Magephil
  • Magephil

    Jew

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Aug 2002

#4

Posted 13 March 2005 - 03:37 AM

QUOTE (Dom0803 @ Mar 12 2005, 16:37)
But how can it go to hell? You only go to Heaven or Hell if you believe in God. Since it does not/can't believe in God, it can't go to Heaven or Hell.

Where does it go to?

Purgatory; if you're into that thing. Read up on "Dante's Inferno.

reemah
  • reemah

    runaway

  • Members
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2004

#5

Posted 13 March 2005 - 03:53 AM

Um well the Islamic view is that the baby will go to heaven. It has done nothing wrong, so it can't be punished. Even though it hasn't done good in the world. Same with mentally disabled people. We believe that people are good by nature; we don't recognise "Original Sin."


P.S. I Love You

Reincarnated
  • Reincarnated

    feels good man

  • Members
  • Joined: 30 Jun 2004

#6

Posted 13 March 2005 - 04:06 AM

QUOTE (Dom0803 @ Mar 13 2005, 00:37)
Since it does not/can't believe in God, it can't go to Heaven or Hell.

Where does it go to?

Then that would be a athiest wouldn't it tounge.gif And according to chirstianity, doesn't athiest's go to hell?

And yeah, the Islamic view is that if you're a baby, mentally disabled you'll still go to heaven. The view is that, eventually everyone will go to heaven, after they paid their due in hell.

bobbo27
  • bobbo27

    Li'l G Loc

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Nov 2004

#7

Posted 13 March 2005 - 09:09 AM

I suppose the christians would say he goes to hell, either for original sin or for being an atheist, and atheists say he just dies.

He just dies.
-bobbo27

Dom0803
  • Dom0803

    Boss

  • Leone Family Mafia
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2002

#8

Posted 13 March 2005 - 11:51 AM

Magephil - "Purgatory" That's more of a Catholic thing. I'm a protestant. I believe in Heaven and Hell. There's good and bad, no in between.

Reincarnated - "Then that would be a athiest wouldn't it" According to us, being people who have been alive long enough to be educated in religion and to make our own decisions, it's an athiest. But you can't make someones religious decisions for them. Therefore, you cannot make the decision that the baby is an athiest. Only it can do that.

bobbo27 - "I suppose the christians would say he goes to hell, either for original sin or for being an atheist" Read the above quote again.

muitobrodaman
  • muitobrodaman

    HUMAN or HITLER?

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 17 Jan 2005

#9

Posted 13 March 2005 - 02:51 PM

A hindu (buddhist?) would say he would just be born again, perhaps to a better life, perhaps to a worse life. -I'm don't know of anything talking specifically about babies.

An atheist? he can believe quite a number of things, just can't have god in it.

an agnostic? haha...

yawn.gif -how am i still sleepy?

jimmy.
  • jimmy.

    ?

  • $outh $ide Hoodz
  • Joined: 08 Feb 2004

#10

Posted 15 March 2005 - 01:47 AM

I'm a Roman Catholic, and I've always been taught that in this case, the baby would go to Heaven. I agree with that. The baby can't make conscious decisions about religion.

bobbo27
  • bobbo27

    Li'l G Loc

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Nov 2004

#11

Posted 15 March 2005 - 03:09 AM

QUOTE (Dom0803 @ Mar 13 2005, 05:51)
According to us, being people who have been alive long enough to be educated in religion and to make our own decisions, it's an athiest. But you can't make someones religious decisions for them. Therefore, you cannot make the decision that the baby is an athiest. Only it can do that.

That makes sense.

But since I don't believe in heaven or hell....It's really not something I can argue.
-bobbo27

Taxman
  • Taxman

    I'm gonna sing the doom song now!

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2002

#12

Posted 15 March 2005 - 08:52 PM

If I were Christian (I'm an atheist that read the bible), I'd say the baby would go to hell, due to original sin. However, being an atheist myself, the baby will just die. Nothing afterwards. Just dead.

The-King
  • The-King

    [Rekt Intensifies]

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 26 Jan 2005
  • None

#13

Posted 16 March 2005 - 01:08 AM

"When you die you go to a wonderful place in the sky where theres no crime, and everyones happy....... Nah i'm just kidding you just rot in the ground."

QUOTE (Peter Griffin to some little kids.)

T.J.E.
  • T.J.E.

    Canadian Eh?

  • Members
  • Joined: 08 Mar 2005

#14

Posted 16 March 2005 - 01:32 AM

as a christian, he would go to hell, because he was born into sin, and has not had the chance to do anything about believeing in God, so as sad as it may seem, he goes to hell.

unless, he was baptized as soon as he was born, then died a little after, cause he was given faith by the holy spirit, even though he can`t understand it, and he would go to heaven...

spoof
  • spoof

    ?

  • The Precinct
  • Joined: 16 Apr 2002

#15

Posted 19 March 2005 - 12:28 AM

Any “God” that would cast a soul, who had done no wrong, to eternal damnation isn’t any sort of “God” whom I would wish to believe in, nor wish to exist.


There again, no worthwhile “God” ever deemed such things. The human beings that interpret what was written many years ago by other human beings are the ones dictating precedence here.

Hard Margin
  • Hard Margin

    Mostly harmless

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 21 Sep 2003

#16

Posted 19 March 2005 - 02:36 AM

QUOTE (tehhunter @ Mar 13 2005, 00:28)
Thanks to Christianity, he would most definetly go to hell. How? Original Sin, due to Eve.

Nah, the child goes into "limbo", more or less the same as purgatory except for unbaptised children. Then the parent's actions judge whether the child will go to heaven or hell.

A hellish idea, if you will.

randomman
  • randomman

    Snitch

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2005

#17

Posted 19 March 2005 - 08:57 PM

i think he would be re-encarnated and re-encarnated until he can live to make a choice about god and christianity

Barbaneez
  • Barbaneez

    Boss

  • Members
  • Joined: 01 Jun 2003

#18

Posted 20 March 2005 - 03:26 AM

I can't say I can add a definate answer to this either.

Technically for most Christians, they are baptised when they are infants or toddlers. Oddly enough, a baptism is to confirm one's faith or belief in God and that you'll always stick by him and his kingdom. But a baby or a toddler can never consciencely submit to that (obviously) and they are not asked to; it ends up being that it's moreso for their parents/God parents and the congregaton attending the baptism to confirm their faith - and not them. Not that I meant to get sidetracked on baptismal issues here but if one was baptised and an infant and did not consciencely agree to the testiment of Christianity, I would have to say they're in the same boat as the small infant.

As for the infant, I can't say I know where it would go either. I'm guessing that God (being the generous big man of the house as he is) definately understands that this infant was not capable of accepting him (God) because the infant did not get the time to grow. My overall say would be that the infant goes to Heaven because it has not committed any sins and that God would understand that situation as he does every situation. Although there is nothing in the Bible to back up my opinion, so I really can't say - I don't think any human being could.

The same goes for people born mentally retarded, or 'live' their 'life' in a horrible vegetable like state. They have no choice, they cannot affirm God's existence (nevertheless their own or anything else). I have no idea what the answer to the question would be and I firmly believe no human knows - although we can guess, we do not know. God no doubt cares for them anyways and does understand the problems that they have no control over, we'll just have to trust that he's doing something well for the people who arn't physically or mentally able to let God into their lives.

Spidey.
  • Spidey.

    Secret Wars

  • Members
  • Joined: 02 Jun 2004

#19

Posted 21 March 2005 - 11:39 AM

As a christian. I belive that the baby goes to heaven. Forget original sin, i take that as a misquote, or a mistake, or something added in for catholic influence.

I fail to belive that god and jesus are so uptight that and mean that he would send his own children(who have done nothing at all wrong yet, or recived a chance to repent their sins.) to hell to be punished for eternity after doing nothing good, and nothing bad.

Baby goes to heaven.


(Honestly, do you actually think theres a place in hell where demons punish babies for all eternity?)

Mortukai
  • Mortukai

    Merciless Rancor

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 24 Aug 2003

#20

Posted 21 March 2005 - 01:20 PM

God I love buffet religions. smile.gif

HoodyG
  • HoodyG

    Don't do drugs.

  • Members
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2004

#21

Posted 25 March 2005 - 07:22 PM

QUOTE (Dom0803 @ Mar 12 2005, 22:47)
Right. My friend and myself, who is still here right now sitting behind me drinking wine.

He put forward to me a good question, which I said would make a good discussion here.

Ok so.. the question.

A new baby is born. Most say if a new born baby is clean and dies, it will go to heaven.
But. There's allways a but.
To go to heaven you must believe in God. A newborn baby is not in the world long enough to comprehend anything at all, even his own existance. Let alone find God.

So how could something that is hypothetically an athiest, go to heaven?


Babies that die emediantely after being born as well as any and every other man/ woman in the world and beyond go not to heaven nor hell because that's premium utter bullsh*t and god doesn't exist.

Cajones
  • Cajones

    Punk-ass Bitch

  • Members
  • Joined: 26 Mar 2005

#22

Posted 26 March 2005 - 02:08 AM Edited by Cajones, 26 March 2005 - 02:12 AM.

Excuse me, but Original Sin and Puragatory all belong to the the Christian Denomination of Roman Catholicism. Now I do not believe in such a thing as Original Sin or Puragatory. My Uncle Kirk died when he was just a baby, did he go to hell or heaven? I can't say. Nobody on God's green earth knows what happens when you die. People can make assumptions, yes. Me personally, I think that nothing happens to a dead newborn just like everyone else, if you die you die. Just because one denomination in one religion says something, that certainly does not mean that other denominations will believe the same. Believe it or not, some Christian demoninations do NOT believe in heaven or hell.

Helpful links on the matter:
Religious Tolerance

Barbaneez
  • Barbaneez

    Boss

  • Members
  • Joined: 01 Jun 2003

#23

Posted 26 March 2005 - 04:37 AM

QUOTE (HoodyG @ Mar 25 2005, 14:22)
QUOTE (Dom0803 @ Mar 12 2005, 22:47)
~

Babies that die emediantely after being born as well as any and every other man/ woman in the world and beyond go not to heaven nor hell because that's premium utter bullsh*t and god doesn't exist.

Thanks for providing such a detailed backup and supportive conclusions on your thoughts...

ph34r.gif

HoodyG
  • HoodyG

    Don't do drugs.

  • Members
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2004

#24

Posted 26 March 2005 - 05:52 AM Edited by HoodyG, 26 March 2005 - 07:21 PM.

QUOTE (Barbaneez @ Mar 26 2005, 04:37)
QUOTE (HoodyG @ Mar 25 2005, 14:22)
QUOTE (Dom0803 @ Mar 12 2005, 22:47)
~

Babies that die emediantely after being born as well as any and every other man/ woman in the world and beyond go not to heaven nor hell because that's premium utter bullsh*t and god doesn't exist.

Thanks for providing such a detailed backup and supportive conclusions on your thoughts...

ph34r.gif

Oh go to church and pray!

EDIT: I'm sorry for that because I wrote it very late at night and I wasn't thinking.
Let me give you a proper argument,

Long ago church authorities like bishops etc. were rich filthy rich while othe people were very poor. And naturally as all rich people they want to get even richer, and as long as people are dumb and uneducated they could rule the world. So they came up with some bogus facts that Earth is flat and center of the Universe that it’s flat that God created man in his likeness that sort of bullsh*t, to keep people dumb and worshipers and donations pouring in. They didn't LET any other books to be distributed except the f*cking bible because they could do that they were like the government. Well let me ask you using the simple scientifically proven process of evolution, as man evolved from apes does that mean the god is a f*cking monkey? They killed every scientist who tried to prove the truth in order to keep people in darkness. And they're supposed to be followers of God, so I'm asking would God order something like that? Now even that the truth was proven and church was proven LYING why are our people still 70% Christian? Because of conservative religious sh*theads who keep raising their families to be God loving and give more money to the church so it becomes more powerful!

And I didn't mean as I said besides not believing in religion ( which I obviously don't because I'm smart), that I do not believe in God, well I do believe in God but not the kind of bullsh*t f*cking hypocrite church teaches you but I believe that God is a natural force, not a giant white bearded man walking on clouds! I think religion is nothing but a capitalist byrocracy between God and man, that offers no benefit to society except draining money from it. And why do you think 9/11 happened? Islamists ( or I could be wrong some religion anyway), see Christianity as a threat to their religion because it's bigger and every religion wants to dominate the world so they could get more money, so their religion taught their people that Americans are evil, that the whole western world is evil so they would attack them and start a war and we all know that in war time people are even more religious! So more money goes to the church. Every terrorist who was in planes that destroyed WTCs and hit Pentagon was promised by religion that 74 or whatever VIRGINS will be waiting for them in the "internal life", in Heaven!
Why do you think Islamists get up at 5am to pray? Because their church wants to drain more money from them! Why don't they impose the same rules in Christianity? Because Western people are better educated and therefore more smart, so they can't impose extreme rules with them. That's why they promote church on tv all the time like on The Simpsons where they go to church almost every f*cking episode! Or Dr. Quinn where religion is such a huge part of life. I'm not saying church pays them for promotion, but they're doing it because church is so wildly popular amongst the majority of our population so people want to see church and God in every sh*t they watch, and the shows then do it for ratings. If it wasn't the case we'd all be forced to get up to pray in the dawn of cock-a-doodle-do's. They pray in middle east so much because nobody watches tv there and so they have to keep it popular. Why do you think there's "holy bread" and "holy water" and not holy wine and holy chicken nuggets? Because they cost f*cking church less that's why! Church don't give sh*t about people!

Now probably most of you conservative nutjobs are going to go babbeling "Your facts are all wrong blah blah...", so keep the flaming posts coming I'm just burning up from anticipation to see what bullsh*t will you come up with next to keep people believe sh*t.

GTABAG
  • GTABAG

    Playa

  • Members
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2005

#25

Posted 26 March 2005 - 07:06 PM

I took the test to see which level of hell i was going to a few weeks ago, and when I read the description of the first level, It sed that unbaptized children go there.

So I guess the baby is in the first level of hell, which is not that bad, but not good either.

HoodyG
  • HoodyG

    Don't do drugs.

  • Members
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2004

#26

Posted 26 March 2005 - 10:39 PM

Do you know why religion says you should go be baptised not to go to hell? Because with every baptism church not only gets the service money, but then gets you hooked to have to go there again every week to hear some nutjob read from the "good book" and then you donate money there every week.

Mav.
  • Mav.

    Ghetto Star

  • The Connection
  • Joined: 03 Nov 2004

#27

Posted 27 March 2005 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE (bobbo27 @ Mar 13 2005, 20:09)
I suppose the christians would say he goes to hell, either for original sin or for being an atheist, and atheists say he just dies.

He just dies.
-bobbo27

I'm a christian, I don't believe they should go to hell. They haven't done anything wrong. They are just a baby. They haven't had a chance to do anything wrong, so why should they automatically go to hell? Now, I know to go to heaven you have to believe in and love God but this baby hasn't had a chance to do that. God is very forgiving an understanding. He would understand all of this and would allow him/her into heaven. I belive they should go to heaven and not hell.

jacob.
  • jacob.

    Homie

  • Members
  • Joined: 27 Jun 2004

#28

Posted 29 March 2005 - 06:06 PM

QUOTE (HoodyG @ Mar 26 2005, 22:39)
Do you know why religion says you should go be baptised not to go to hell? Because with every baptism church not only gets the service money, but then gets you hooked to have to go there again every week to hear some nutjob read from the "good book" and then you donate money there every week.

Baptism is being reborn in water, a public act and symbol of the beginning of a new life in Christ.

I'm suprised some of you are thinking the baby would go to hell, have you not heard of the "age of accountability"? The baby would go to heaven, there is no argument . The God Christians believe in is a God of love. You are held responsible for belief in Christ and Baptism when God feels you are, and if some of you think an infant actually had that choice - that is sad.

JackredluM
  • JackredluM

    Saviour of the damned

  • BUSTED!
  • Joined: 03 Nov 2004

#29

Posted 01 April 2005 - 01:49 PM

hehehe chrstianity it is nice if you don't have an opinion of your own, i bet most of you wouldn't be christian if your parents weren't.
hey it is your own decision you put blind fate in a book written in times where people were scared the sky might fall.

what are you christians doing on a GTA forum anyway?? aren't you supposed to think this game is immoral and "evil"??

babies going to hell, christianity is so idiotic. jeez i put more faith in reincarnation and Karma and babies don't have a negative karma yet.

1 day in the future science is going to prove there is no god. besides faith has nothing to do with it anymore, just look at how much gold the pope has around his neck. you can acctually buy forgivness in the vatican.
church is nothing more then another place to waste your money, since when does having faith cost money??
besides the bible is full with contradictions, and not to forget that if christianity would still rule science the earth would still be flat and the center of the universe!

Blind faith don't make me laugh, there is only science and the laws of nature.
but if you want to believe a person can create a universe go ahead.

HoodyG
  • HoodyG

    Don't do drugs.

  • Members
  • Joined: 12 Nov 2004

#30

Posted 01 April 2005 - 02:06 PM Edited by HoodyG, 01 April 2005 - 02:11 PM.

In fact religion has been proven bogus about a 80 years ago or so when people first flew above clouds, like I have many times, and I didn't see any giant man with white beard nor flying people dressed in white with a halo sticking out of their heads. That's because church authorities came up with that long before anyone imagined the possibility of a human seeing what's above clouds. Science proved that wrong and also what they said about thunderstorms being a sign that God is angry, when due to modern research we know that that is simply a cause of static electricity. But seeing you conservative freaks still believe makes me feel eerie that I am same species as you.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users