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jcab42
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#61

Posted 12 March 2004 - 02:07 PM

I don't understand why you guys didn't use my stadium col file and my joey's garage col file. I worked pretty hard on those files and I think the numbers speak for themselves:

your stadium = 56.3 KB
my stadium = 22 KB

your joey's garage = 47.4 KB
my joey's garage = 14.6 KB


No big deal, just wondering is all.

killer.ip
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#62

Posted 12 March 2004 - 02:32 PM

I know how much effort it took because those were two of the first collision files I put together myself, but this was before I started deleting the extra data ZModeler leaves in the *.x file as it exports. blush.gif

Don't worry, I started using that technique pretty much directly afterwards... but I never got round to halving the polycount on those models. If we could use your's that would save a lot of time an energy on our part. smile.gif

jcab42
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#63

Posted 12 March 2004 - 03:18 PM Edited by jcab42, 12 March 2004 - 03:25 PM.

by all means, that's what they are there for. smile.gif

edit: I guess it would be nice if I didn't make you hunt for them:

the solid stadium and ghost town:
http://gtawip.com/ma...wcat.php?cid=33

the Joe's Garage mod:
http://gtawip.com/ma...ile.php?lid=140

btw, Dem, you said the same thing I've heard from many others: that the Joes Garage mod sucked 'cause of all the extra stuff... FYI, the reason why it's like that is because that was a beta that we released for demonstration purposes, but then the project got zero support, so fudge(who?) and I decided to say skrew the whole thing.

killer.ip
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#64

Posted 12 March 2004 - 03:46 PM

Grrr, I did go on that hunt... but GTAWIP was first on the list so no loss. biggrin.gif

The coll for the stadium's lacking faces for the doors & floodlights... but the new object's we're adding to correct the 2d problem obviously need their own coll's themselves. For the stadium it'll be the work of 10 minutes to create the faces to simulate those.

We'll definitely include these optimised files in the next update. smile.gif

karlneil
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#65

Posted 12 March 2004 - 05:05 PM

i would suggest linking the last gta lc installer to the official mods and delete the gta wo link because their last installer will not work even on clean install of vice city and i have reinstalled vice already twice

jcab42
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#66

Posted 12 March 2004 - 05:21 PM

Thanks, I was going to do about the same thing but looks like you want to do it and you know the best way to get it done. I intentionally left the doors & floodlights out. I felt the floodlights hurt my ability to fly over the stadium with the dodo (no big deal), and the doors I felt could be removed for obvious reasons. It's totally up to you where we go with this, but another possibility would be to have an automatic gate installed there. Also, once you finish it, I'd like to volunteer to change the surfaces. If you'd like a sample of what I'm talking about, just check out my other stadium that is included with LazioFreak's stadium texture mod. It's missing the top lip (which sucked) and I never fixed that, but I'd like a third chance to make things right wink.gif

http://www.lzfdownlo...data/libsta.htm

I don't really understand what the "new object's... to correct the 2d problem" is all about. I've read a lot in here and I'm having trouble finding it. If you could just sum that up right quick I'd appreciate it.

Mark Pagliaro
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#67

Posted 12 March 2004 - 05:34 PM

jcab42:

GTAIII dff files had a cull option thus they rendered in GTAIII as having both sides textured. We could not simulate this in Vice City's Engine. So Killer.ip and I remodled all the offending dff files in zmod. However upon doing so they all lost their light data which would be a major setback. So Killer.ip contacted myself on redoing them by added new objects in the same location as their parent dff file simulating a whole object. This will keep the light data intact for the original dff files. I tried hex editng the light data back on but it failed to work out so killer.ip's method is the best solution for the time being.

Demarest
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#68

Posted 12 March 2004 - 05:48 PM

I have spoken with killer.ip before about the stadium and he convinced me to keep it because in effect, it didn't hurt anything. Since then, it's just been a part of Liberty. But now that we're talking that, the garage, and all the 2d objects, I would like to request that the stadium be left out of the original files. This will be much like when I go to pluck all bikes and helis out of the code via a flag that can be enabled for use with an expansion. Based on the time alone it is going to take to finish this, we will DEFINITELY have quite the array of options for "official expansions". This will obviously include the option for bikes and helis, the stadium, etc. What do you guys think? Again just a reminder: keeping our release as authentic as possible maximizes the ability for the end user to have OPTIONS as to how he plays our mod smile.gif

@jcab42: Thanks for permission for use of your work. I've always enjoyed your work as you know and am honored by your increasing participation here smile.gif I sincerely apologize if that garage mod was yours, because I'm usually VERY good at crediting people. My only defense is that I tried it out when I was still very young in the GTA community. Sorry confused.gif

jcab42 added to official team thread

Outback
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#69

Posted 12 March 2004 - 08:00 PM Edited by [4D]Outback, 12 March 2004 - 08:04 PM.

I noticed while modifying the garage that every poly is doubled, in both the main model and the COLL. The main model has been fixed, but I couldn't fix the coll. I do plan to, though.

The one killer.ip made is very complete, so I don't see any reason to switch to a different one.

killer.ip
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#70

Posted 12 March 2004 - 08:27 PM Edited by killer.ip, 12 March 2004 - 08:29 PM.

Regarding the stadium, we were talking about whether removal of the gate was a good idea... in the end we decided to leave it as removal would have gone against the premise of the straight conversion. But we did decide to leave the new collision file in place, now that we have air access we won't be able to stop people taking choppers in and landing at the field.

Although jcab42's collision file is lacking a gate, I've been able to provide one in the coll necessary for the stadium's new 2dfix object:

user posted image

With the gate/new coll in place we have the best of both worlds, no access the traditional way, and touching down via the air we won't be sinking up to our elbows.

Outback, fraid I made that coll in the early days before I started deleting the extra info ZMod exports with the *.x file. jcab42 provided one a little further up the thread, but I'm a little confused why the walls at the back of the garage haven't had collision faces added. Is this the location of the escape route we've been talking about? If so that's no problem, otherwise it's still possible to pass through the wall and out the bottom of the city again.

Mark Pagliaro
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#71

Posted 12 March 2004 - 08:47 PM Edited by MarkPagliaro, 12 March 2004 - 08:51 PM.

Killer.ip you are correct in a way however demarest has stated and I agree that the first port should not have any Bikes or Helicopters. Then an official Addon for bikes and helis would be released afterwards. I agree with this as it would allow me to make a Helicopter Package with my Love Media maverick and Yakuza maverick. This may cause confusion though as we will have:

Official Mod:
- Direct Port of GtaIII
Official Addons:
(My Idea of official addons would be adding anything from vice city to GTAIII)
- Clothing Pickups
- Helicopters
- Bikes
- Buying of Property
- Interiors
-Unofficial Mods:
anything else

jcab42
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#72

Posted 12 March 2004 - 09:09 PM

Ok, thanksalot Mark for the information about the 2d issue, that's really helpfull. Of course we all know how to make things lit up but you're talking about 3d lighting right? Makes me wonder if the 3d lighting can be created with 3ds Max; afterall, that's the program R* used to make them and isn't the dff plugin the same one they use? Not that it would be a solution for you as we still wouldn't know where the lights were placed and their intensities. Would be a great thing for future mods though. I agree killer.ip's solution is the best rah.gif

No problem Dem, I forget stuff that happened over a year ago aswell wink.gif Thanks for adding me to the list. Guess I'll have to do something about my sig now eh? Separating the mod into two mods is cool. One auto-install for the authentic version, and a second for all the expansions?

killer.ip, the reason the back wall is missing is that in the full version of the mod the permenant doors were removed and replaced with automatic ones. Man, there was so much in that mod that never got released. Many versions of the hideout moved inside, next door; chickenplucker had Joey walking around the place doing weird things, Darkel came back from the dead, I hid all the packeages hidden around the garage and created a new version of patriot playground using the traintracks, tons more, it was sick, missed out turn.gif

Outback
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#73

Posted 12 March 2004 - 09:12 PM

QUOTE (killer.ip @ Mar 12 2004, 20:27)
Outback, fraid I made that coll in the early days before I started deleting the extra info ZMod exports with the *.x file. jcab42 provided one a little further up the thread, but I'm a little confused why the walls at the back of the garage haven't had collision faces added. Is this the location of the escape route we've been talking about? If so that's no problem, otherwise it's still possible to pass through the wall and out the bottom of the city again.

I only edited the COLL to remove the vehicles and engine block. My fixes are all cosmetic. As for this escape route, I have no clue what it is. I also haven't any idea how my walls are all solid and yours aren't. It's your coll to begin with.

killer.ip
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#74

Posted 12 March 2004 - 09:20 PM

Sorry man, I was talking about jcab42's coll there, the reason why they're like that is in the post above yours. wink.gif

Cheers that explanation btw jcab42, I guess that coll's going to have to be a little tweaked after all. Problems with both (missing walls, and double the polycount respectively), think we should make a new one from scratch? Shouldn't take too long, hehe.

I still think we should include your stadium coll in upcoming releases though, it's just as efficient as the one R* bundled with the game and I see it mainly as a bugfix rather than an outright mod. It's either going to be a case of including it now or having mutilple versions of comNtop.col floating around with future releases.

Outback
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#75

Posted 12 March 2004 - 09:28 PM

@killer.ip: Consider the double polies fixed. I did it last night, just couldn't get it to work ingame. But it should now. That mirroring did the trick with Kenji's Garden, so I don't see why it won't work for the Garage as well. smile.gif

Mark Pagliaro
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#76

Posted 12 March 2004 - 09:29 PM Edited by MarkPagliaro, 12 March 2004 - 09:57 PM.

There will have to be 2 sets of Col Files.
1. Untouched from GTAIII for the direct Port.
2. New Cols Created to accomadate Helicopters.
Therefore all the cols can be bundled now and used for the Heli & Bikes addon. and we can use the originals for the intial port.

killer.ip
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#77

Posted 12 March 2004 - 09:40 PM

What's the problem with including the rest of the coll's that've been working on. By that I mean the one's that are available for download in the Official Mod's thread? If you're really planning on going that far I guess the new roof's that've been modelled can't be included either... sarcasm.gif

Outback
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#78

Posted 12 March 2004 - 09:40 PM Edited by [4D]Outback, 12 March 2004 - 10:22 PM.

All Done!

Download the Kenji's Garden Coll Update here.

It replaces casino and casino_garden in ComSE.col, so be sure to delete the originals.

@killer.ip: Agreed. What good is this project if nothing is being improved upon?

EDIT. I'll be adding a bottom to the pool after I update Joey's Garage one more time.

Mark Pagliaro
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#79

Posted 12 March 2004 - 09:55 PM

Well the COls really fall under what Demarest wants in the official download if no bikes, helis it would be better to use the original cols since you would have no means of accessing the problematic areas other than the dodo. The new cols that have been made since would go under the helicopter and bike release as you would have access to the problematic area. Both are official but the cols would be an addon. The first port is gong to be as authentic as possible is what I am forseeing.

killer.ip
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#80

Posted 12 March 2004 - 10:14 PM Edited by killer.ip, 12 March 2004 - 10:21 PM.

There is a danger in doing that, having multiple files in official releases, addons whatever is going to cause confusion down the line. The thing about coll's is they're invisible until you interact with them. By that what I'm saying is the new coll's will seem just like the old one's to a ped or vehicle, it's only when we get access by air that there will be any difference.

Our primary role is that of bugfixing/correcting, and although we're trying to keep to the ideal of a straight port we have to have a little lassitude. The new coll's, roof's, 2dfix's, water, paths... they're not 100% authentic, but they're as close as we can make them.

Seeing as the new files add only a few extra faces to those R* provide it'll save a lot of bother with peoples questions down the line if the updated ones are included straight away, I mean no-one will be able to tell the difference until the addons arrive.

Just my thoughts on the matter. wink.gif

Good job on the casino coll's btw Outback, got a little sidetracked there but I've given them a shot and they works as advertised, came out to a pretty decent polycount too. There's a little texturing on the garden floor that needs correcting, and while the leaves on the tress are a little single sided that'll be looked into shortly too. smile.gif

[EDIT] Just reread that last bit, sounds as if I'm saying it's the coll's fault the textures haven't been addressed yet. Hmm, that's not what I meant.

Mark Pagliaro
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#81

Posted 12 March 2004 - 10:16 PM

jcab42:
I do not have 3d studio but if I did I would need the import filter for dffs that supports light data. As far as I know there is only an export filter. I woud also have to learn max but I am sure I can do that. Killer.ip and I were going to try belnder as hollower made an import/export script for it. I couldn't get the script to work nor could I even understand blender so we scrapped that idea. If you know of a dff importer and exporter for any version of max let me know.

Demarest
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#82

Posted 13 March 2004 - 02:52 AM

QUOTE (killer.ip @ Mar 12 2004, 16:40)
What's the problem with including the rest of the coll's that've been working on. By that I mean the one's that are available for download in the Official Mod's thread? If you're really planning on going that far I guess the new roof's that've been modelled can't be included either... sarcasm.gif

No real problem. Just not authentic. I can definitely understand your lack of understanding and I too will feel weird about striking the helis and bikes. But I would like to reitterate that if the official LC release was GTA3 authentic, it would give people the most flexibility. The fact that multiple files would be floating around is toughy in terms of our offering support for it. However, A) there's already multiple files now since we're updating all the time B) the second somebody makes a map mod, there could be multiple files floating about and C) if the team that made the mod in the first place makes the official expansion, then the documentation, implimentation, etc will be as painless as possible. If it makes you feel better (and I already anticipated the following happening anyways), we could release the official mod itself as 2 versions: the unaltered GTA3 (as best we can) and the version we've sort of already been buidling with all the assumed add-ons people would want with helis, roofs, etc.

This is something we can continue to discuss because I don't want division amongst the team. I just want to stress yet again that taking steps backwards to remain true to a GTA3 port is not harmful and actually adds options for our users.

jcab42
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#83

Posted 13 March 2004 - 05:31 AM

QUOTE (killer.ip @ Mar 12 2004, 15:20)
...I guess that coll's going to have to be a little tweaked after all. Problems with both (missing walls, and double the polycount respectively), think we should make a new one from scratch? Shouldn't take too long, hehe.

It's up to you but I suggest that this is a job for the collapse feature: take only the best elements from each col and combine them into one. I don't want to start telling you how to do something if you already know how to do it so just let me know here or pm me if you need help.

Mark, there is no dff importer for Max which is why you'd have to go through the process of creating new lights. That's what I meant when I said that we don't know where R* put their lights (etc.), let alone if the dff exporter even saves the 3d lights. Don't worry, I'll find out wink.gif I did realize just now the answer to one of my questions though. The dff exporter we've been using makes dff's that can be seen properly in kcow's old mapper, whereas VC's dff's come out distorted, so at the very least R* got a new filter that we never got.

killer.ip
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#84

Posted 13 March 2004 - 02:37 PM

QUOTE (Demarest @ Mar 13 2004, 02:52)
I can definitely understand your lack of understanding and I too will feel weird about striking the helis and bikes.

Please don't make out I've a lack of understanding in this matter, if I'm guilty of anything it's a lack of making myself understood. I've not got a problem striking heli's & bike's, what I'm saying is that the collision files that add solidity to the roofs should be included in any official releases because as long as you're on the ground the fact that they've been added is completely transparent to the end user.

It would be better to add those now rather than later on because they address bugs rather than adding anything new... it's the same with the roof models, why add them and not their coll faces when it's going to simplify matters down the line for everyone including anyone that's involved in file compilation.

jcab42, the collapse feature sounds pretty cool if it's capable of combining the collision faces of two models... I'll need to do a little research as it's something I get the feeling I need to know about. If there's anything I get stuck on I'll be in touch. smile.gif

Demarest
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#85

Posted 13 March 2004 - 03:25 PM

Well I guess since you're the one doing them, you'll do them however you wish. This might as well be WO or LC2004 whatsthat.gif

Phreak2k
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#86

Posted 13 March 2004 - 06:34 PM

So map Mods work? I've been wanting to use Odies freeway for GTA3...

*looks longingly at odies freeway*

Also, although I have some modeling, hardly and texturing and mapping experience, would you guys like to add interiors to some of Fido's hideouts?

jcab42
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#87

Posted 15 March 2004 - 02:25 AM

hmmm, I'm a bit comfused. You posted in the "MOVING LIBERTY" thread so I assume you've read what's in there, so you should know how to move Liberty City to make the highway fully accessible. Tell you what, if you need help to move then city, just ask. So far, everyone seems to know how to move LC so if you (or anyone else) need(s) know how to move it then just ask and I'll get a tut together.

Demarest
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#88

Posted 15 March 2004 - 11:44 AM

Please do smile.gif Tuts kick ass and anything to help the cause is welcomed and encouraged! cookie.gif

@Phreak2K: I've been cleaning up after you fairly regularly, so I'm going to officially say something now. Spam, double-posting, and off-topic posting are all against forum rules. Furthermore, this forum is run more stringently than others because this is supposed to be an organized effort. So please make an effort to adhere to the rules. In addition to that, don't be afraid to search. Literally EVERY question I've seen you ask here has been answered. Also, understand that we will offer very limited support of adding other mods, if at all. We're spending our time trying to finish this. Please tone it down smile.gif

Phreak2k
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#89

Posted 16 March 2004 - 12:36 AM

QUOTE (Demarest @ Mar 15 2004, 11:44)
Please do smile.gif Tuts kick ass and anything to help the cause is welcomed and encouraged! cookie.gif

@Phreak2K: I've been cleaning up after you fairly regularly, so I'm going to officially say something now. Spam, double-posting, and off-topic posting are all against forum rules. Furthermore, this forum is run more stringently than others because this is supposed to be an organized effort. So please make an effort to adhere to the rules. In addition to that, don't be afraid to search. Literally EVERY question I've seen you ask here has been answered. Also, understand that we will offer very limited support of adding other mods, if at all. We're spending our time trying to finish this. Please tone it down smile.gif

Ok, understood. I've been trying to ask questions less randomly and more intelegently, because, as you can see, I'm on the verge of Banning. I was gonna edit my original post, but I thought of posting another one so it would be known that another problem arised.

Although I know some of mapping for VC, i dont know how to move LC. I wont be able to right now aswell, as I am making paths for Odie's Freeway biggrin.gif .

jcab42
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#90

Posted 16 March 2004 - 01:26 AM

thanks Dem, got it done.

Phreak, don't worry, you'll have it done in less no time. Head on over to the "MOVING LIBERTY" and you'll find the tut.




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