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Mafia Drive Gunner
  • Mafia Drive Gunner

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#31

Posted 27 October 2004 - 11:38 AM

QUOTE (Jack_Knife @ Oct 27 2004, 21:29)
QUOTE (vALKYRô @ Oct 23 2004, 06:25)
It has been proven. 2,5 Seconds of your life, wasted, missed, added or whatever may change your whole life.

How can that be proven? Just because, for instance, you missed the bus, and then the bus crashed, doesn't mean that you would have died if you had have caught it. The simple fact is, you didn't catch that bus, so you can never know. Something like this can never be proven, because it is impossible for us to travel back in time and see if doing something differently would change the future.

But think, it could have caused life changing injuries. My two uncles may have ended up completely different, not in a wheelchair, not with one leg, if things that happened, happened differently. If my uncle didn't decide to overtake without taking care, he could be a much hapier person today. My other uncle wouldn't have ended up in a wheelchair if he didn't take up basketball.

Think about those. I think these are all things that are meant to happen, and everything happens for a reason, and it seems that there is never really a comeback to the reality of fate. People can say what if and but why did, and they will never be able to defeat the comeback everyone believing in fate has by saying that all of that happened for a reason.

But you still have a point, by saying what if you did catch the bus. But then again, people can always say it was always going to happen. But I really like topics discussing this. IT is a very interesting topic.
-MDG

Michael Bolton
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#32

Posted 29 October 2004 - 06:35 PM

everything follows along a set path

ctel
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#33

Posted 30 October 2004 - 06:29 AM

I beleave that life is choices, everything that happins to us is because of the
Choices we make, and the choices others make.
Just like the game gta, we don't have to run over everybody and blow up cars
to Finnish a mission. but we play that way to have more fun.
and thats what we do in life, we cause things to happin by the way we live.
Simple cause and efect.
God donít cause it and God don't stop it. God gave us the power to do anything
we want, and this is what we choose to do. We decided a long time ago that
we did not want god advice or help. All he is going to do is make a new world
after we distroy this one. But distroying this word is our destany by choice.

muitobrodaman
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#34

Posted 28 March 2005 - 10:15 PM

fate vs free will.
the primary cause.

I believe in fate. i keep my mind off it.
none of my actions mean free will, just will.

I am underground man.

Rufus
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#35

Posted 29 March 2005 - 12:07 AM

Maybe you shouldn't have bumped this, however I do thank you for it as I never had a chance to read the topic before.

Anyway, I don't really know what I believe. It's the same with religion, I'll believe it if somebody can prove it exists.

Rufus
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#36

Posted 29 March 2005 - 12:15 AM

Maybe you shouldn't have bumped this, however I do thank you for it as I never had a chance to read the topic before.

Anyway, I don't really know what I believe. It's the same with religion, I'll believe it if somebody can prove it exists.

GTABAG
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#37

Posted 29 March 2005 - 03:23 AM

Fate is very weird. JSAN ANDREAS went to church on Sunday at 5:00 p.m., but when he got to the church, there was no mass. So They decided to go to his dad's friends house instead. Somebody in the house had a PSP. JSAN saw it. He liked it. He bought it and we watched Spiderman 2 on it today.

If there was a mass at 5 p.m., or he went to a different church, or he went to church at a different time, he wouldn't have seen the PSP or played the PSP on that day, and would not know about it's awesome features. And he wouldn't have bought the PSP.

And we wouldn't have watched Spiderman 2 today. So if he went to church, we wouldn't have watched Spiderman today.

Weird eh?

bobbo27
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#38

Posted 29 March 2005 - 04:49 AM

Baggy: That's not fate...That's just a coincidence...

I believe in fate, but not for silly things like buying a PSP. I think fate only applies to death, especially death by unnatural causes.
-bobbo27

dr zoidberg
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#39

Posted 29 March 2005 - 10:15 AM

I don't necessarily believe in fate as such, but I can understand people believing in it. I think it all comes down to the human need to understand, and when they have no answer to the question of "why?" fate fills the gap. Much like the way religion used to or still does for people. In fact you could easily substitute "fate" for "god". You believe in some invisible force which periodically watches over you and guides you.

I can't believe in fate because doing so would be to suggest that everything is predetermined. Why should fate be involved in certain occasions and not others? You can't really have it both ways. For this reason I don't believe in fate. I cannot see the point of living if we are not in control of our lives and have the free will to make our own decisions. Perhaps we are mere pawns on a giant chessboard. In my human egotism I can't accept that however.

Maybe it is fate that you didn't step on the train. But what causes this fate? Maybe you leaving too late was fate. Perhaps the train was early or your watch was slow. It could have been fate acting on the bus driver, keeping his foot on the brake pedal more often than usual. Or, more likely, it was just bad luck, or more accurately, by a random chance that the train was missed. It seems to be an easy way out to put the blame down to fate.

On an interesting sidenote, the difference between optimists and pessimists is that pessismists put success down to chance or fate whereas optimists emphasise their own contribution. However the opposite is true when something bad happens. It's convenient for us all to believe in fate every so often.

JSAN ANDREAS
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#40

Posted 29 March 2005 - 10:24 PM

QUOTE (GTABAG @ Mar 28 2005, 22:23)
Fate is very weird. JSAN ANDREAS went to church on Sunday at 5:00 p.m., but when he got to the church, there was no mass. So They decided to go to his dad's friends house instead. Somebody in the house had a PSP. JSAN saw it. He liked it. He bought it and we watched Spiderman 2 on it today.

If there was a mass at 5 p.m., or he went to a different church, or he went to church at a different time, he wouldn't have seen the PSP or played the PSP on that day, and would not know about it's awesome features. And he wouldn't have bought the PSP.

And we wouldn't have watched Spiderman 2 today. So if he went to church, we wouldn't have watched Spiderman today.

Weird eh?

Gud Times cuz..Gud times... biggrin.gif

My friend said he was gonna go to a trip to Italy with his family. But then the Flight got cancelled. So he didn't go to Italy. Then the next morning, his G-father had a heart attack and was able to go to the hospital and be treated. IF they had gone to the plane, his Grandaddy wudda had the heart attack on the plane!

I don't know if I believe in fate. I think it's just The "Big Guy" watching over us. smile.gif

Ibro
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#41

Posted 01 April 2005 - 06:49 PM

QUOTE (JSAN ANDREAS @ Mar 29 2005, 22:24)
I don't know if I believe in fate. I think it's just The "Big Guy" watching over us. smile.gif [/color] [/b]

I totally agree with you. But sometimes, God lets things play out without him intefereing.

HoodyG
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#42

Posted 01 April 2005 - 11:08 PM

QUOTE (Ibro @ Apr 1 2005, 18:49)
QUOTE (JSAN ANDREAS @ Mar 29 2005, 22:24)
I don't know if I believe in fate. I think it's just The "Big Guy" watching over us. smile.gif [/color] [/b]

I totally agree with you. But sometimes, God lets things play out without him intefereing.

Hmm, I wonder why... gee could that have something to do with him NOT EXISTING?!

Ibro
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#43

Posted 02 April 2005 - 01:08 PM

QUOTE (HoodyG @ Apr 1 2005, 23:08)
QUOTE (Ibro @ Apr 1 2005, 18:49)
QUOTE (JSAN ANDREAS @ Mar 29 2005, 22:24)
I don't know if I believe in fate. I think it's just The "Big Guy" watching over us. smile.gif [/color] [/b]

I totally agree with you. But sometimes, God lets things play out without him intefereing.

Hmm, I wonder why... gee could that have something to do with him NOT EXISTING?!

You never give up do you? LET IT GO!!
I have my opinion, you have yours. I really didn't want a whole book on why I shouldn't believe via PM. You can't change my mind. Find a hobby that doesn't have to do with me.

HoodyG
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#44

Posted 02 April 2005 - 01:58 PM

Aah, but you see you're the one who PMed me first to change MY mind and since I obviously out reasoned you you seem to be withdrawing away from the discussion since you don't have anything better to say.
You try to prove me wrong and I explain not only how I am right, but that religion is wrong as a whole. If you will still believe what church tells you apart from what I had to say to reason you, you're a moron.
And you should let it go.

randomman
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#45

Posted 02 April 2005 - 03:15 PM Edited by randomman, 02 April 2005 - 03:20 PM.

it can be scientificaly proven that fate exists in a way.
Not nessecerily it was your destiny to do something but for example the day you are going to die was determined at the big bang.

What i am saying is if you did something life changeing for the worse and said "i wish i could turn back the clock" well if you had a time machine you would of done exactly the same thing.

This is caused by a never ending chain of reactions (cause and effect)
i.e. the earth wouldnt be here in the galaxy if the big bang ball of matter had one more atom on it i mean it would only be slightly different but then lets say the earth was 1 mile near to the sun.

All global warming events would of happened one month sooner and eventually these changes would be much different.

Can you see what i mean
RANDOMMAN

bobbo27
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#46

Posted 02 April 2005 - 06:51 PM

randomman...you don't make sense. Sorry. Am I the only one who doesn't see the connections in his argument?

HoodyG, Ibro, neither of you can change the other's mind. Argue, debate, slap fight, it doesn't matter what you do. Get over it, both of you.
-bobbo27

HoodyG
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#47

Posted 02 April 2005 - 07:01 PM Edited by HoodyG, 02 April 2005 - 07:04 PM.

@ randomman, that was random. You don't need to prove that faith exists, as it is just positive thinking.
@ bobbo, nah, I'm done unless someone else starts a debate, I think I've expressed myself.

randomman
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#48

Posted 02 April 2005 - 07:55 PM

I was gunna say "Its a long and complicated story" but i thought to myself nah

Ibro
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#49

Posted 02 April 2005 - 08:23 PM

QUOTE (bobbo27 @ Apr 2 2005, 18:51)
neither of you can change the other's mind. Argue, debate, slap fight, it doesn't matter what you do. Get over it, both of you.[/color] -bobbo27

I want to let it go. And Hoody can believe what he wants and I believe what I want. And it's not that you outreasoned me. I am withdrawing becuase of your last PM in which you started to get moody and I decided to stop. Plus, what good does it do if we both won't change our mind. Like bobo said: "Argue, debate, slap fight, it doesn't matter ".
So lets both let it go. But hoody, you really do have a temper problem.

HoodyG
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#50

Posted 02 April 2005 - 09:43 PM

I would even have turned Christian if you gave me a good reason.
But instead, your editorials suck because you only quote The Bible, and say how some " Rapture" is upon me. Mine are long lists of reasons proving religion is wrong as a whole.
A friend of mine came by my house today and saw me typing that last post at " Dead newborn" and asked me what I was doing. I told him about this thread that babies go to " hell", where we debate about whether atheism is better than religion, and I said, " This guy here claims religion is better because it's good to have faith etc.", and he said " Well it is", as he is religious. Then I asked him " And do you think religious people are better than Christians?", on which he replied " Well they are.", knowing very well I am not Christian. Then I asked him " And what proof to you have to back that opinion with?", to what he said " No, I don't know man...". He is my friend no longer.
And you complain on why I got so edgy with you offering pretty much the same kind of responses to my writings, except with a couple of Bible quotes and a remark " It's not nice to call people weirdoes just because they have different beliefs..." obviously without letting all of those thoughts that I bothered replying to you reach you. So maybe I have a temper problem with the likes of you, but then you apparently have a mind problem.

reptilexcq
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#51

Posted 03 April 2005 - 04:49 PM

I don't believe in fate. I think people think it's fate cuz it's amazing or coincidence or whatever. I am sure there are amazing stories of people surviving say a horrible earthquate or tsunami and i have no doubt there are always a few of those that ended up surviving and come back and have great stories to tell..blah blah. I mean what are the chances of a few surviving out of a mass??? There is always chances and so they will definitely have stories to tell and then they can start convincing those that this is fate. But what about the mass of people that got killed....that ain't no fate! And don't tell me they ended up dead cuz it's their time...that's like a poor excuse of fate.

Only reason we see life as fate is cuz we look back at our past activities and see only one path but clearly there are many alternate paths that one can take to lead to different outcome. That is NOT fate. Of course one can argue that no matter what path one takes, he/she will eventually end up in the same fate, but clearly that is not true if that one particular path clearly prevent that from happening. I believe in FREEWILL, not fate. Freewill determine the outcome of ur life, how you end up the way you are by making the many decisions you can take under freewill.

Ibro
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#52

Posted 03 April 2005 - 07:14 PM

QUOTE (HoodyG @ Apr 2 2005, 21:43)
I would even have turned Christian if you gave me a good reason.
But instead, your editorials suck because you only quote The Bible, and say how some " Rapture" is upon me. Mine are long lists of reasons proving religion is wrong as a whole.
A friend of mine came by my house today and saw me typing that last post at " Dead newborn" and asked me what I was doing. I told him about this thread that babies go to " hell", where we debate about whether atheism is better than religion, and I said, " This guy here claims religion is better because it's good to have faith etc.", and he said " Well it is", as he is religious. Then I asked him " And do you think religious people are better than Christians?", on which he replied " Well they are.", knowing very well I am not Christian. Then I asked him " And what proof to you have to back that opinion with?", to what he said " No, I don't know man...". He is my friend no longer.
And you complain on why I got so edgy with you offering pretty much the same kind of responses to my writings, except with a couple of Bible quotes and a remark " It's not nice to call people weirdoes just because they have different beliefs..." obviously without letting all of those thoughts that I bothered replying to you reach you. So maybe I have a temper problem with the likes of you, but then you apparently have a mind problem.

Mind problem?!? You haven't even met me, and don't say "Well, from you PMs and posts..." The only reason you say I have "Mind problems" is because you always have to have the last word and you apperently ran out of ideas. And you say you dont like me, but your the one insulting. Even though I had the las PM you had to go in the Dead Newborn topic and do it there. You even publicly showed my PMs, which I think was wrong. They're called Private Messages for a reason. You know what, don't ever post or reply to me. Not even for this. I will never check this or the Dead Newborn topic, so it's not worth it anyways.

Good Bye

HoodyG
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#53

Posted 05 April 2005 - 03:43 PM

Ibro, the only thing that isn't worth reading in these threads are your posts, since you never have anything to say proving your opinion. You only say something about how the "God" is great, and not give any particular reason.
Saying I am out of ideas. why don't you look back at your previous posts. They're all pretty much the same, contradicting my highly debatable and in depth editorials, without giving any solid proof or concrete evidence as to why is it you're always right and I'm always wrong exactly.
Expecting me also not to reply to any of the garbage you write, no matter how unreasonable is also very blunt.

P. S. The reason I didn't reply these two days is because I said my late father was better than the pope in the death of pope's related topic. That and my modem broke down. But, nevermind that. For everything I say I give a good reason and you never do, is what bugs me really.

Ibro
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#54

Posted 07 April 2005 - 02:13 PM Edited by Ibro, 07 April 2005 - 02:29 PM.

QUOTE (HoodyG @ Apr 5 2005, 15:43)
Ibro, the only thing that isn't worth reading in these threads are your posts, since you never have anything to say proving your opinion. You only say something about how the "God" is great, and not give any particular reason.
Saying I am out of ideas. why don't you look back at your previous posts. They're all pretty much the same, contradicting my highly debatable and in depth editorials, without giving any solid proof or concrete evidence as to why is it you're always right and I'm always wrong exactly.
Expecting me also not to reply to any of the garbage you write, no matter how unreasonable is also very blunt.

P. S. The reason I didn't reply these two days is because I said my late father was better than the pope in the death of pope's related topic. That and my modem broke down. But, nevermind that. For everything I say I give a good reason and you never do, is what bugs me really.

I would give you as much info and evidence as you did, but I know it's not worth it. You take everything seriously IMO. Religion is an important topic, but not when someone is as insulting as you are. Thus, I say it's not worth it. And I know that you wouldn't have turned Christian if I gave a good argument.

P.S. I realised that I said I wont return, yet you reply. Why? Actually don't answer, because you'll write a whole editorial on it and then get angry at me for not caring about you writing alot of crap. Don't reply to this, because I will not return to check. If yuo really think that bad against god, go to a priest (Because they know alot about Christianity) and debate with him. I bet you wont, because you know you will be proven wrong. And when I said priests are corrupt, then you said "OMG tehn y r u liek listening 2 tehm if they r liek teh 1 who st4rted Christianity?" Well, none od them were corrupt back then, and not all of them are corrupt now, just some, but most of the time the ones who are bad Athiests find out about. But the good ones never become famous(News wise, not as in popular).
So, don't reply to this, becuase I wont check. Don't talk to me about you're theoties, talk to a priest.
Thankyou.

HoodyG
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#55

Posted 07 April 2005 - 04:21 PM Edited by HoodyG, 07 April 2005 - 05:22 PM.

Simply, if you don't think it's worth it posting one single evidence supporting your claims, then why post pages of rubbish which only contradicts my evidence on no grounds, and proves nothing?
How can you laugh at me for taking this debate seriously, when claming in the very next sentence that religion is an important topic? Then claiming I am the one who is insulting, saying it is not worth it proving the "3,626,486,000" people who believe in God right, because I am the one insulting in your signature. Just look at your last post. You are contradicting yourself.
I also am not sure what time this is you state you will not reply to my post (third?), when you do the next time you come on the board. Not a very trustworthy religious man, are you Ibro? Don't answer that, even though something is telling me you will.
How do you know I would not have turned Christian if you gave me a good reason? You are free to quote one time you think I was lying about something to cause you to have such an opinion. Stating my facts are crap, when you yourself don't give anything to confirm your beliefs, is equally blunt.
Quoting something I said in a completely enhanced way to make me look ridiculous because you don't know of a more appropriate way to prove me wrong, is beyond debate the most unsound way to discriminate against me, because I do not share common beliefs with you. At least when I do it I state facts and provide accurate quotes.
I am an atheist and one of priests who has done nothing wrong apart from lying to you about the truth I know of os for instance reverend Jesse Jackson, who even though I disagree with in moral and political views, has done nothing wrong in severity of abusing his powers to inflict harm upon people, i. e. molesting children as is what you mostly hear about such people on news lately, thus proving another one of your assumptions wrong again.
And the reason I prefer giving the whole world my opinion on internet (not just you), apart from talking to a priest behind closed doors is that such an act would not change anything in his opinion as that is what he gets paid for to do, is that I at least have a chance of showing many open minded people with common sense light providing pages of solid evidence proving religion wrong and endorsing science, of which you obviously you are not one.
About your signature, oh yes, and what majority thinks is always better isn't it? That is the kind of narrow mindness that started this religious craze in the first place thousands of years ago, and I am deeply saddened that such opinion still runs within some people. You call me insulting, then why did you choose to flame me in your signature claiming how you hate people like me, when I didn't mention anything that would insult you? Getting a little edgy, aren't we?
Just because you claim you will not check this, does not give you the right to order me not to write anything contradicting your doltish claims, when you made fun of and insulted me a number of times in the same post.
QUOTE
I hate people who are sickened with politicians who praise God and they think that they suck up and are religion endorsing, and these people think they're "smart", when about 3,626,486,000 people believe in God and only about 10,000 people don't.

Well I am. And I am also appalled by religion endorsing media, which made such a circus of the popeís death, covering it like death of the emperor of the world. It has been five days now of consecutive mainstream coverage of his death and practically nothing else. All the suicide bombings in Iraq put to silence by this one unchanging fact, that one of the most rich, powerful and biased men in the world died. Did you know the late pope considered resigning from the throne in 2000? Do men sent from God to spread his word and glory resign?

Red Hat Girl
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#56

Posted 28 April 2005 - 10:06 PM

I don't believe in fate (or God) either. I think that life is incredible, and that incredible things can happen. But they are not controlled by anything, they are part of world. In a world like this, with so many people, events are being set off all the time, and there's bound to be some coincidences eventually. Plus, like someone pointed out, our brains do pick up on certian patterns and things but don't (in most people) calculate the statistics, or remember every event that didn't lead to some revelation.




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