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WIP - PROJECTX

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[mta]kyeman
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#91

Posted 12 September 2004 - 09:12 AM Edited by [mta]kyeman, 12 September 2004 - 11:39 AM.

QUOTE (sheep)
kyeman.. well.. it took me about 20 minutes to reverse the script parser.. so i would hope you had got that far.. but if you took your head out of your ass for 2 seconds and read the post.. it was directed at CRAY..
QUOTE (sheep)
we knew that it was our duty to bring an actual playable MP mod that wasnt coded by complete f*cking idiots.

I don't care who it was directed at. You were insinuating that MTA programmers have never provided any useful information to the GTA modding community, thereby insulting me directly, and the time I took to make posts here. If anything, it has only come down to the fact that there's not alot of people out there willing to make good use of the provided information.

I was doing the stuff you are doing now with the create actor and vehicle commands 10 months ago. I posted information on the scm interpreter 6 months ago at request. But now all of a sudden, the MTA team is evil and you're the devine genius? Give me a break man.

I, for one, can clearly see how nieve your statements are. And btw, my head is nowhere near my anus, but thanks for asking.

QUOTE (Smithers2)

Ok, so maybe im being a little hard on MTA, but its not so much their programming that annoys me, its their attitude. I believe I was banned by eAi from the MTA channel for slapping, someone made a topic on their forums about the JPEG Code that lies within mta_dll.dll, and it was locked. IJs still denies its even there.

Yeah, there's JPEG code in the directx library that mta_dll.dll links with. DirectX can decode JPEG bitmaps as textures but obviously MTA would have no use for this. There's no actual JPEG code in the MTA source. Several people have said that MTA does not save screenshots as JPEG because the MTA programmers are simply bunch of a**holes.

The reason I'm speaking up here is because it's not fair for people to start attacking any member of the MTA team. Some members of the team have literally donated years of their time, with absolutely no monetary gain, to create a multiplayer modification for GTA3 and GTAVC.

[sheep]
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#92

Posted 12 September 2004 - 01:56 PM Edited by [sheep], 12 September 2004 - 04:31 PM.

i didnt ask if your head was near your anus.. i had already assumed it was firmly lodged there.

well done.. a whole ten months ago? then it is clearly you the genius.. if thats what you wish people to think..

though!!if its taken you lot YEARS to produce such an amateurish peice of sh*te such as mta then i really would suggest you all call it a day and just face that coding and reversing just isnt your game! smile.gif

i read your post.. and yeah.. it has info.. but i got the feeling like here.. you just wanted people to say.. wow!! because you say that you can tell people because it doesnt enable people to make hacks against mta.. haha.. with that information anyone can execute any script at any time.. and you think its not gunna help anyone? do you even read the sh*t you type?

what is it u want? a medal for working out something that anyone with ida and a limited knowledge of asm could work out in an hour??

Sintax
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#93

Posted 12 September 2004 - 04:34 PM

I don't know why you have such pent-up anger and why you continue to insult and act so immaturely while everyone from MTA has tried to be fair and level-headed in this discussion. It only goes to show who really is in the wrong in this situation. And the fact that you attack these people for qualities which are quite opposite to those they actually posess is a shame. I'm not even sure why I would bother replying to such baseless accusations when I know all you will do is spew the same trite drivel you have for pages now, but when you come to know people and they are threatened, you feel a certain need to defend them.

You can pedal the arguement that you whipped up your amazing project in a matter of hours or whatever it is, but the fact of the matter is that VC has been around the same amount of time for all of us. So you can work the angle that you're so quick and smart and blah blah blah, but for all we know you've been working since day one, crouched in your basement corner, working tirelessly so that one day you may come to equal or surpass the MTA team (whom I can only venture to guess have performed some atrocious act on your mother by the way you talk about us) and have your day of glory, flaming away on an internet forum and boasting your unparalleled achievement for all to see, shaking as adreneline courses through your veins as you finally reach the apex of the very essence of your being. For all I know, at least.

Well, this post turned out more aggressive than I had hoped, I would really rather try to achieve some sort of understanding between all of us so that we may grow and flourish together in our shared goal, and, in the end, have everyone benefit from our glorious successes. But... screw you, pal.

Kryptos
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#94

Posted 12 September 2004 - 04:54 PM Edited by Kryptos, 12 September 2004 - 06:58 PM.

QUOTE (Sintax)
... flaming away on an internet forum and boasting your unparalleled achievement for all to see ...

This argument is fundamentally flawed in a hypocritical sense.

QUOTE (Kent747)
you should check out projectX they are working on giving the world a more powerful interface to VC. They have a thread in this forum. ...

For a minute there I thought the needless self-gain had come to an end... although after continuing to read it became apparent that I was wrong.

QUOTE (Kent747)
... also I can't mention them without doing a plug for my own mod.

MTA (multitheftauto) will be releasing an SDK for our newest version, which will allow people to create custom gamemodes for multiplayer vice city.
you can get details on that at this site

You're right, certain members of the MTA team have publicized useful information, but we all know that for the past ten or eleven months you've been withholding all this 'new' information, which ironically isn't new whatsoever, from the general public. So please don't make blatantly false statements, after all, I haven't seen one post on the MTA forums linking to this topic, nor have I even heard it mentioned.

And please note, that 'boasting', or however you want to put it, was made on these forums, and can be seen here.

I assume I will be flamed in some form, but please keep it to a minimum since this topic is becoming overly cluttered with useless garbage, including what I have just posted.

I also forgot to mention one indispensable point.

QUOTE (Slashdot)
"Today, MultiTheftAuto have released the first information about their new core technology that will be deployed in future versions of MultiTheftAuto. The new core technology, codenamed 'blue', offers many of the features that have been requested by the software's users over the last year and a half, these include: Support for boats, support for firing from vehicles, support for drive-bys, and support for planes. As well as supporting all these features, the new core will introduce a revolutionary new way of writing modifications for Vice City, combining the existing methods with a fully integrated C++ add-on system, giving anyone who wishes to the ability to create complex and exciting mods, far beyond the possibilities of 'traditional' methods."

Now this one really tops things off. You accuse [sheep] of boasting his achievements on these forums, forums that are specifically designed for what he's doing, and he and Spooky have released their accomplishment to the world. MTA on the other hand has made it a point of posting their 'achievements' on Slashdot, which numerous regular readers found appalling, including myself. Not only that, but MTA has yet to release their new project. Ergo, take note of what's going on around you, don't make unjust arguments that have no backbone to them.

Luke
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#95

Posted 12 September 2004 - 07:35 PM

Oh the wonderful world of arguments.

[Sheep] has a right to bloat about his achievements, theyre great, MTA would be able to too, if they wernt too obsessed with advertising theirselves, so the next time they tell me to "Take something to their forums" I may spontaneously combust, because itd just get locked or deleted if it contains anything even remotelty anti-MTA over there.

Im a big fan of gtaforums, and I believe without gtaforums, MTA wouldnt be where it is today (hated by half the population, who only play it because they see they have no better alternative).

Telling me people get banned from MTA's forums/IRC channel for good reasons would be a simple lie, its not true. MTA would love to have a complete monopoly, so they keep all their present supporters by protecting them from the "nasty" people in the world who are capable of making things far better than MTA (and the highly imaginatively named Blue).

Sintax: I too once thought MTA deserved some respect, until they showed me none in return, then I thought "{insert random rude word here} them", and thats how I still feel. Most people on this forum take very little interest in the works of MTA, thats probobly because the gtaforums community is so different to the MTA one. And thats a good thing, lets keep it that way, the moment MTA's happy-tree-loving-lets-play-whatever-gets-thrown-at-us-no-matter-how- much-it-sucks attitude comes here, im off.

[mta]kyeman
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#96

Posted 12 September 2004 - 08:52 PM

QUOTE (sheep)
what is it u want? a medal for working out something that anyone with ida and a limited knowledge of asm could work out in an hour??

I want you to quit bad-mouthing members of the MTA team and the MTA mod in general. I think you may simply be taking advantage of the fact that your friend is a moderator, inorder to wage verbal attacks against people that wouldn't normally be tolerated.

What I'm trying to point out here is that MTA:Blue is almost a year ahead of what you have currently. The released version of MTA 0.4.1 is based on legacy 0.2 code, and you're making nieve judgements about how far the MTA team have actually progressed, professing yourself to be much wiser, when you really haven't shown anything spectacular.

There are certain obstacles that you don't even know exist, and it takes several months to get past these hardcoded limitations. You can reverse engineer all you like, but R*'s code never changes.

Spooky
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#97

Posted 13 September 2004 - 02:01 AM

QUOTE ([mta)
kyeman,Sep 12 2004, 21:52]What I'm trying to point out here is that MTA:Blue is almost a year ahead of what you have currently. The released version of MTA 0.4.1 is based on legacy 0.2 code, and you're making nieve judgements about how far the MTA team have actually progressed, professing yourself to be much wiser, when you really haven't shown anything spectacular.

Seriously now, there's been about 15 people working on this for over a year... You could've re-wrote the engine in that time. If the page you put up about your new engine really highlights the best features of it, I think you've still got a hell of a long way to go before you present this revolution in online gaming.



QUOTE ([mta)
kyeman,Sep 12 2004, 21:52]There are certain obstacles that you don't even know exist, and it takes several months to get past these hardcoded limitations.

How about an example? I don't believe there's anything that could possibly take months to get past in this game. The internals are easy to understand unlike some other recent games. See Painkiller.



QUOTE ([mta)
kyeman,Sep 12 2004, 21:52]You can reverse engineer all you like, but R*'s code never changes.

Believe it or not, it is possible to change the code. We call it code injection and it's not exactly a new technique. See http://sheeps.reversing.info/?p=tut.



QUOTE ([mta)
kyeman,Sep 12 2004, 21:52]I think you may simply be taking advantage of the fact that your friend is a moderator, inorder to wage verbal attacks against people that wouldn't normally be tolerated.

Ooh a low shot for a losing argument. Report one of sheep's post and I'll leave it for another mod to read.



QUOTE (Smithers2 @ Sep 12 2004, 20:35)
Im a big fan of gtaforums, and I believe without gtaforums, MTA wouldnt be where it is today

Without a doubt. This place is an invaluable source of gta information only because people work together for the greater goal. They'll always be people that use places like this for their personal gain.



QUOTE (Smithers2 @ Sep 12 2004, 20:35)
Most people on this forum take very little interest in the works of MTA, thats probobly because the gtaforums community is so different to the MTA one.

Very different indeed. One has people all working together on an amazing amount of different projects and the other has a secretive group that like to boast about what they have without ever giving anything back to the people they've took so much from.



QUOTE (Sintax @ Sep 12 2004, 17:34)
You can pedal the arguement that you whipped up your amazing project in a matter of hours or whatever it is, but the fact of the matter is that VC has been around the same amount of time for all of us. So you can work the angle that you're so quick and smart and blah blah blah, but for all we know you've been working since day one, crouched in your basement corner, working tirelessly so that one day you may come to equal or surpass the MTA team

From your point of view I can understand you thinking he's lying, after-all this must've took your team absolutely ages, but sheep needs to be fast at reversing in order to get his amazing trainers out shortly after a game is released. See http://sheeps.reversing.info/?p=trn



QUOTE (Sintax @ Sep 12 2004, 17:34)
I would really rather try to achieve some sort of understanding between all of us so that we may grow and flourish together in our shared goal, and, in the end, have everyone benefit from our glorious successes.

Ok, let me ask a question and please give a truthful reply. All differences with the GTA:Connection team aside, if they were to come to you and see if you wanted to share information and "flourish together in your shared goal", what would you response be? You should really think about this question for a while too.



QUOTE ([mta)
kyeman,Sep 12 2004, 10:12]I was doing the stuff you are doing now with the create actor and vehicle commands 10 months ago. I posted information on the scm interpreter 6 months ago at request.

The only people that would even come close to piecing together that information you threw are people that could do it on their own anyway. In gamehacking theres many people that try their best to help on forums and by writing tutorials, but theres also the people who write very vague posts and tutorials that tell people nothing other than the writer knows what he's talking about but doesn't want to help. "How do you do a wallhack?" - "Well, err, what you do is err, hook the draw function and put in some code to make it not draw the walls, ok?".


The arguing throughout this thread has shown only that the MTA people want to boast about what they can do and feign an interest to help people. Instead of giving vague, cryptic or down right condescending "you're on the right track" posts, how about actually giving something out that people can use? After-all you want everyone "flourish together in our shared goal" don't you? How about your SCM interpreter? Your DirectX stuff?

The things going through our mind while making this stuff were about the people that would use this information well, such as Stretchnutter and Hammer83 for their mods. Remember you can't use the old "People might use it to make cheats!" line with this one, as everyone knows the pieces mentioned wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

So the question once again is, will you give out something people can use, or by helping the community did you mean what you've done so far with your posts?

Kryptos
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#98

Posted 13 September 2004 - 03:13 AM

It's funny how the only time information about MTA comes out is when they seem to be under direct speculation. As soon as that happens everything falls magically into place... coincidence? Call it what you will.

[mta]kyeman
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#99

Posted 13 September 2004 - 04:38 AM

QUOTE (Spooky)

Seriously now, there's been about 15 people working on this for over a year... You could've re-wrote the engine in that time. If the page you put up about your new engine really highlights the best features of it, I think you've still got a hell of a long way to go before you present this revolution in online gaming.


I haven't been on the team for several months, but I can tell you that there's only usually only 1-2 people working on a particular MTA version at any given time. There have also been people who have come onto the team and left without coding anything, and those who have non-coding jobs within the team, such as forum and website administration.

QUOTE (Spooky)

How about an example? I don't believe there's anything that could possibly take months to get past in this game. The internals are easy to understand unlike some other recent games. See Painkiller.


The main problem is that actors in GTA III/VC are not designed to behave like remote players, they're hardcoded to call into the AI classes. If you change them to player to type actors all the controls are hardcoded to the local machine (in at least 100 places). This makes things such as syncing animations, entering/exitings vehicles, weapon firing, translational movement (hardcoded paths), difficult to tweak for a nice smooth multiplayer game.
You can inject new code into all these code sections but it simply takes time to find them all.

QUOTE (Spooky)

Believe it or not, it is possible to change the code. We call it code injection and it's not exactly a new technique. See http://sheeps.reversing.info/?p=tut.

I'm quite familiar with all of these techniques.

You might find my comments are more valid than you think. I did spend several months with my head embedded in gtavc dissassembly and coding a programmability layer in MTA:Blue. I was no newbie to disassembly, reverse engineer or coding when I started this either. I managed to put together a base for the game level code which the rest of the team is working hard now to finish.

So naturally I'm going to get a little pi**ed when people start making statements about all current GTA multiplayer mods are coded by idiots. I've personally seen the sort of dedication these people have to give to produce a multiplayer mod for this game, without access to any source code from GTA.

Kent767
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#100

Posted 13 September 2004 - 05:06 AM Edited by Kent767, 13 September 2004 - 05:11 AM.

[sheep],Spooky: did you actually read kyeman's post? You say it is very vague and needs clarity etc, but from what I've seen he even pasted code explaining the process..
furthermore, pay attention tothe post directly after his post..
QUOTE ("ghost_master2000")
omg, that's the most information I have ever read on the main.scm code handling EVER. I love you keyman. and I'm onto it right now.


I think it is a bit unfair to say that noone found it helpful.. or that he didn't share information.

regardless, MTA would not be where it is today without the help of kyeman, he provided the backbone of blue's game level programmability interface... and to suggest that he wouldn't know what he's talking about in these subjects is a bit... laughable..
MTA is where it is today because of people like Cray and Kyeman..


I'm not a hacker, nor do I claim to be one, but it seems to me that a lot of you guys, have an ego problem or something... You make claims that we do not help people, and we have shown you several posts on these forums where we have, let alone the countless opcodes we've submitted to the online database.

Even discounting THAT we promise to the community that we will let them code addons for future versions of MTA, and we'll be releasing an SDK for them to do this, one of these features in the SDK will be accessing our SCM hook...

And for that we hear posts of saying we are trying to monopolise? or aren't sharing information?? Tell me.. how is providing an SDK for this game controlling and not allowing people to learn in this community.

My job in MTA aside from any 3D math calcs people need, is centered around the SDK, I'm writing the first few gamemodes, and then will work on many different tools to provide the community to aid in developing their own addons, so I take it very personally when you say that we don't support the community. Making MTA more open to the community is something I, the other team members, and other gamers have wanted for over a year now... and its finally coming to be a reality... Why is this something that we are getting bashed for now?

kyeman: I hope everything is going well for you, miss seeing you around. Thanks again for all you've done for us.

p.s.
I'm sorry if I came off rude to any of you, things between you ([sheep]) and I have been civil, but I am not a person who takes insults to friends very lightly... So please at least try to keep these conversations civil, and not resort to silly comments about people's head and their location relative to thier ass.

Kent

[sheep]
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#101

Posted 13 September 2004 - 06:16 AM Edited by [sheep], 13 September 2004 - 06:19 AM.

well.. as this is a small part of my waking life.. ill make it a quick post..

just the fact that u cant even leave this thread alone.. is fact enuff that u people have to have the spotlight constantly..

Kent767
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#102

Posted 13 September 2004 - 06:19 AM

fair enough to me,
the MTA team never got involved in this forum until you made such comments about us...

as far as i'm concerned I wont post again assuming I hear nothing against the team from you.


Thanks,

Kent

Spooky
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#103

Posted 13 September 2004 - 06:49 AM

QUOTE (Kent767 @ Sep 13 2004, 06:06)
...to suggest that he wouldn't know what he's talking about in these subjects is a bit... laughable..

This wasn't suggested, kyeman obviously knows what he's talking about when it comes to the VC internals. However, I stand by my comment that the information posted wouldn't be useful to anyone except those who would know how todo it anyway.


QUOTE (Kent767 @ Sep 13 2004, 06:06)
...several posts...

*1 post


QUOTE (Kent767 @ Sep 13 2004, 06:06)
...countless opcodes...

*8 opcodes


QUOTE (Kent767 @ Sep 13 2004, 06:06)
we promise to the community that we will let them code addons for future versions of MTA, and we'll be releasing an SDK for them to do this, one of these features in the SDK will be accessing our SCM hook

This is a classic example of my point. How is this going to benefit people that don't want to make a addon for MTA? This is an addon for your mod, it doesn't help anything except your mod.


I see you've blissfully ignored the question asked, so we'll leave it at that.

trx
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#104

Posted 13 September 2004 - 10:04 AM

Ok,
This obviously is getting nowhere...
How about you guys start posting about your project again, and leave the MTA team for what it is (or what's left of it, by now. Laugh.)
Otherwise, a lock would be in order now.

To all MTA Members; please stop posting here from now on... please!

to Kyeman: Thank you for backing us up, and all the work you did when you were with us. We all will not forget. This bashing is annoying, but leave these people in their illusion.

thanks,

trx

JernejL
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#105

Posted 13 September 2004 - 11:51 AM

TO MTA: make your own topic about the "stuff" you discuss here.

TRN4L
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#106

Posted 14 September 2004 - 05:21 PM

so fellas, whats the status of your project?

Spooky
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#107

Posted 15 September 2004 - 07:56 AM

On hold for a few days while we attend to a trainer for another game, but we'll have an update soon.

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#108

Posted 15 September 2004 - 09:37 AM

Well, a great discovery turned into a primitive dissing topic.(With MTA on the loosing side, thats my opinion, im just objective).
Hope its going into the good way now again(and hoping for a detailed Tut/Description/explanation about scm hoooking(Fingers crossed biggrin.gif ))

Yes, i am hoping for the doc for GEMM. Thats not a shame, is it?

Good luck, and here are your cookies cookie.gif cookie.gif cookie.gif .
Really looking forwad to your MP mod though.

Blehbeb
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#109

Posted 25 October 2004 - 07:44 AM

Is this project dead now?

Squiddy
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#110

Posted 25 October 2004 - 02:20 PM

QUOTE (Blehbeb @ Oct 25 2004, 07:44)
Is this project dead now?

I don't know it but i don't believe it.
This project is amazing and i think sheep und spookie got also other things to do. I hope there will be some officially news soon. smile.gif

proto-man
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#111

Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:01 PM

Does anyone have another link to the spoosh engine. i really need it

Blehbeb
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#112

Posted 13 January 2005 - 09:41 AM

QUOTE (Spooky @ Sep 15 2004, 07:56)
On hold for a few days while we attend to a trainer for another game, but we'll have an update soon.

How about that update?

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#113

Posted 13 January 2005 - 11:48 PM

I think it might be dead since they havent posted here since Oct. 25. dontgetit.gif

Kryptos
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#114

Posted 23 January 2005 - 04:00 AM

Both spookie and [sheep] are active members of the game hacking community (had any of you actually done a search for 'game hacking' on Google you would know this by now). When I use the term 'game hacking' I don't mean 'GTA', 'Half Life', 'Halo', or any other specific game, I mean they are a select few who are capable of catering to any game that is released. With this in mind, I find it annoying that everyone immediately denounces their efforts because of a short absence, in fact, if you had taken a few moments to look around you would have noticed spookie has made a recent post on SCM hooking in the mission coding section.

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#115

Posted 31 January 2005 - 05:16 PM

Yeah, but is the project dead?

If yes can we get the scripts? (Pleez, Pleez, Pleez,...) alien.gif

X Rulez!!!

Spooky
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#116

Posted 01 February 2005 - 01:46 PM

Yeah, it's pretty much dead now confused.gif If anything, we'll be working with SanAn when that comes out for pc.

(What scripts?)

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#117

Posted 01 February 2005 - 02:24 PM

QUOTE (Spooky @ Feb 1 2005, 14:46)
(What scripts?)

Seeing he is developing a mp mod, I think he talks about netcode and stuff, because the basic code you allready released. But anyways I could be wrong.

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#118

Posted 05 February 2005 - 08:16 PM

I've read this thread from start to finish, and i have 1 thing to say:

You two would be the biggest morons not to finish this project which has come so far and torn directly past the MTA modification in a matter of moments. The perfect sync from the beginning of the net-mode is one of the most major breakthroughs when comparative to the self-absorbed MTA. Leaving this holy-grail of a multiplayer mod to be buried in the sand would be a complete cop-out, especially since it is so amazing and would top the MP community without a shadow of a doubt.

Continue this project - You'd be stupid not to. rampage_ani.gif

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#119

Posted 05 February 2005 - 08:53 PM

Unfortunately they have much larger commitments. For them to build something of this magnitude merely for the GTA community, with only a few thousand people in total, is quite pointless, and that alone isn't motivation enough to continue. MTA is a project driven by popularity, the few hundred people that surround themselves with it are what drive certain members to actually work on it (certain members, not all). They measure their success based on the number of people who use their product:

QUOTE (multitheftauto.com)
The day we hit the 1000 gamers marker will be a day of big celebration. And that day will come!

Comparatively, this is completely different. The people who have been working on this are not driven by the same motivations:

QUOTE (sheep)
my intention is only to spread the knowledge so we can all get a little further in our endeavors

I don't believe anything else is needed to be said. I'm not trying to induce a flame war, but those of you who understand my statements will understand the concepts I have outlined, and those of you who disagree can save your rants, I don't have time to listen to ignorant, petty disputes, and in all probability you are guilty of the same transgression.

J-Fox.GEMM
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#120

Posted 12 February 2005 - 07:58 PM

Yep i maen the sourcecode... inlove.gif




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