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WIP - PROJECTX

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Stretchnutter
  • Stretchnutter

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#61

Posted 06 September 2004 - 03:56 PM Edited by Stretchnutter, 06 September 2004 - 03:59 PM.

I would be really interested to know how you can draw things onto the screen. I'm just wondering if this section of the code will be included in the source. I've read your tutorials, [sheep] but they weren't directly aimed at GTA-VC. I have this project I've been working on for about a year called VC Camera Hack... which just recently gives you the ability to use a manual transmission. What is the use of a manual transmission without proper instrument guages? You can see my most recent thread here: http://www.gtaforums...howtopic=146066

I have found a way to draw the analogue needles but it is a very crude method using squares and fonts. It was achieved simply by finding active text locations in the memory and nothing to do with directx. It causes a performance drop because of the code required to update every single coordinate for the squares that makeup the needles. If i could use a texture of some sort then the amount of objects to be rotated would only be 1.

Anyway great work... looking forward to the source!

vnum218
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#62

Posted 06 September 2004 - 04:09 PM

QUOTE (ashdexx @ Sep 6 2004, 00:12)
QUOTE
I was obviosly wrong about them being the same, in a fresh install:
171 crashes the game
194 crashes the game
195 crashes the game
231 crashes the game


Funny, i'm also running a fresh install, and spawning these cars (rc vehicles) DOESN'T crash my game. Getting in does, but not the spawning itself.

Which did you mean?

Sorry I meant entering the vehicles. My mistake.

Re: Getting in RC Baron: Really? I want to try that out, however it's not working as yet.

[sheep], You're prolly right (about being fixated on small things), but I was just trying to find anything that would crash the game so that you could fix it. Trying to help not to criticize.

So, would this fix for the RC cars that's being discussed work in the same manner as getting into an RC car that you're able to? I mean, would it put the player model in the car, or would it just give you control of an RC car as it normally would, as from a Top Fun Van?

[sheep], LOL, and yes, the leg room is quite stifling in the RC cars.

<irrelevance>
On another note, what is the number of the vehicle that spawns as the Hot Ring Racer at sunshine autos? I know that it's not either of the two listed one because in KK's mod, with language set to english and not KillerKip's, the title of the car is Hot Ring Racer, yet it is a lambroghini (f*ck the spelling, i'm not thinking about it right now) diablo, while those other two cars are other things.
</irrelevance>

Kryptos
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#63

Posted 06 September 2004 - 06:13 PM Edited by Kryptos, 06 September 2004 - 06:18 PM.

Are you talking about the Deluxo? The vehicle ID for that is 211. The Hot Ring Racer ID's are 232 and 233.

Oh, my mistake. You must mean the Bloodring Racers, the ID's for them are 234 and 235.

ggm_SpYder
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#64

Posted 06 September 2004 - 11:18 PM Edited by ggm_SpYder, 08 September 2004 - 12:03 AM.

it is really interesting to follow this thread!!!

I need to correct the RC-vehicle stuff. tounge.gif
It is possible to enter all the RC models BUT you need to modify the handling.cfg before. 'trx' has been on the correct way but changing the door-status is the wrong method.

Rock* has not defined the car-flags correctly in GTA3 AND ViceCity!
When you change the following flags you can enter RCs without crash:
Change this for Vice-City:
RCBANDIT 0 to 700A918
RCBARON 40000 to 400A918
RCCOPTER 20000 to 200A918 (use #RCRAIDER in SCM script)
RCGOBLIN 20000 to 200A918
Change this for GTA3:
RCBANDIT from 0 to A118

(It DOES work for VC. JPG was broken but now its OK)
If you don't believe then look here Player in RCBANDIT or Misty shooting from RCBANDIT

But where the hack can I find/change these vehicle flags in the GTA3 or gta-vc memory that it will have the same effect like changing the handling.cfg

vnum218
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#65

Posted 07 September 2004 - 01:58 AM

Ahh, too bad it only works for GTA3. How did you manage to get ProjectX to run gta3.exe instead of gta-vc.exe? Well, I look forward to a solution to this very minute problem. <annoying voice>I wanna drive in the RC cars.</annoying voice>

Aanyway, @Kryptos: the deluxo in KillerKip's mod is the driving Mandalorian, not the Diablo, and none of the cars (232, 233,234, or 235) is the diablo. Strangeness.

Cray
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#66

Posted 07 September 2004 - 02:28 AM

QUOTE (vnum218 @ Sep 7 2004, 01:58)
Aanyway, @Kryptos: the deluxo in KillerKip's mod is the driving Mandalorian, not the Diablo, and none of the cars (232, 233,234, or 235) is the diablo.  Strangeness.

Not sure exactly what you are looking for, but maybe one of these two vehicle id lists will help:

GTA3 Vehicles
GTA:VC Vehicles

ggm_SpYder
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#67

Posted 07 September 2004 - 05:16 PM

vnum218:
Driving RC models work in GTA3 and VC for sure. In VC you have to spawn them with this nice tool. Look in the description what to change in handling.cfg before!!!
Some times its a bit tricky to enter the COPTER but it works.

ProjectX does not work with GTA3.exe. I have created my own script to spawn the RCBANDIT.


Spooky
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#68

Posted 07 September 2004 - 05:52 PM

QUOTE (Stretchnutter @ Sep 6 2004, 16:56)
I would be really interested to know how you can draw things onto the screen.  I'm just wondering if this section of the code will be included in the source.

It's done by hooking the Direct3D interface. sheep's tutorial on this subject explains one method of hooking the interface, which is better in some ways as it can hook the interface at runtime (great for trainers, which it was aimed at) but in this project we've used a proxy d3d8.dll which has to be in the game directory before its run... which isn't a problem in this project as we're using a loader anyway.

A proxy d3d8.dll works as so...

When a DLL is linked to a program via the IAT (import table) Windows first scans the programs directory for this dll, then the system directory, then any directories in the environment path and when found it'll link that dll. As Vice City doesn't have a d3d8.dll in its root directory the one from the system directory is loaded... usually. If we stick our proxy d3d8.dll in the games directory, ours will be loaded rather than the real d3d8.dll in the system directory. When Direct3DCreate8 is called within our DLL we pass back a pointer to our IDirect3D interface and then create a real IDirect3D interface from the real d3d8.dll to pass calls along to. When the IDirect3D::CreateDevice function is called we again pass back a pointer to a hooked interface, this time IDirect3DDevice8. Now what this means is, whenever the game tries to call a Direct3D function, it has to first pass through our code. For most functions we simply forward it on to the real Direct3D(Device)8 interface, except with IDirect3DDevice8::Present. Present is called when the game has finished drawing the frame and now wants to present it to the user by "flipping" the front and back buffers. At this point we can put in our own drawing code. For the console I created a 32bit texture, changed the raw texture data (dynamically drawing onto it), mapped it to a polygon and then rendered it. You could also just write directly to the backbuffer, but you'd have to deal with it being in different bit depths.

Some source will definatly be released to show how this was done.

vnum218
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#69

Posted 07 September 2004 - 09:34 PM Edited by vnum218, 07 September 2004 - 10:32 PM.

QUOTE (ggm_SpYder @ Sep 7 2004, 17:16)
vnum218:
Driving RC models work in GTA3 and VC for sure. In VC you have to spawn them with this nice tool. Look in the description what to change in handling.cfg before!!!
Some times its a bit tricky to enter the COPTER but it works.

ProjectX does not work with GTA3.exe. I have created my own script to spawn the RCBANDIT.

Umm...I don't quite understand what you mean when you say "Look in the description what to change in handling.cfg before." I have looked in handling.cfg, and have found no lines such as the ones you describe. I am looking again now, however.
<sidenote>That reminds me, I think I posted the line which contains "RCBANDIT" from the handling.cfg file. It is gone now, but I am now thinking that it might have been deleted by a mod or an admin. Is it against forum rules to post this stuff? If so, I'm sorry.</sidenote>
I just looked in the handling.cfg file, and found nothing of the sort you described. Oh, wait. Is it one of these at the very end? :
CODE
RCBANDIT...0.0  0   0  1

If so, I know it's not the first one (the 0.0 one) but is it the second one or the third one? BTW, this is at the very end of the entry for the RCBANDIT. Thanks for the help anyway!
Edit I think I found the answer by crossreferencing with the other RC entries. trying now.

Indeed! This works, and to get in the RCHelis, just run into them a bit, and get in while they're on their sides. Under this fux however, the RCHelis have wheels and act like cars - they cannot be flown. Good job figuring this out though!

How's the MP aspect of this progressing?

Oh Yeah, @Cray, what are vehicles 180 and 181? I'm guessing that 180 is the plane with the banner, but I have no idea what 181 is.

For those who didn't look:
CODE
#define GTAVC_PLANE_AIRTRAIN   180
#define GTAVC_PLANE_DEADDODO   181

Hammer83
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#70

Posted 07 September 2004 - 10:56 PM

Wow, great stuff! I already see one very useful application of this project. Since GTA3 PC reelase I've wanted to write some integrated replay manager so that the old replay doesn't get overwritten every time I save a new one and I can playback replays by names. I have done one with API hooks, by just listening to key down messages and then when F4 is pressed, GUI for manager pops up while the game minimizes. Then I select the replay I want and send F3 keydown message back. This causes all sort of problems, including cursor not being shown, minimization at a wrong time and what not. By using DirectX to draw GUI directly eliminates a bunch of these problems.

I've read sheep's tutorial and what scares me though is tons of assembly code which I know almost nothing about. Isn't there a way to do DirectX hook with a high level language?

[sheep]
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#71

Posted 07 September 2004 - 11:48 PM

hammer.. sounds like a nice idea you have there mate.. but dont worry.. the way spooky hooks directx is very different to the way I hook it in my tutorials.. im an ASM coder.. thats why everything i do is in asm.. but spooky's hook for our project is written in c++ so when we release the source code you will be able to add your own functionaility to it wish ease.. well.. as long as you can code in c++ of course smile.gif )

dont be discouraged.. with a little patience everything is possible smile.gif )

ThE_cHeEsE
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#72

Posted 08 September 2004 - 04:02 AM

hey sheep or spookie when u direct x hack do u do it pixel by pixel? or do u draw a picture in direct x and insert it, sorry for any newbness im not realy experienced in direct x.

BTW wondering alot of people say u cant direct x hack in vb is this true??cause ive heard some people have direct x hacked in vb.

Kent767
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#73

Posted 08 September 2004 - 05:50 AM

when they hook directX (i'm assuming they do this similarly)

they are able to grab hold of the DirectX device pointer..

they then hook the render function in VC.. they can then call any directX function, and execute their directX code..

in short.. they do not have to draw pixel by pixel, they use any directX code they'd want to.


as far as VB is concerned, there are probably tutorials somewhere where someone has gotten DirectX to work in VB, if you can set up the hook to work , then theoretically you could do it from within VB, but I don't know how well pointers and such work in VB, I am not a vb coder by nature... so I don't think I can really help you much here)


Kent

ThE_cHeEsE
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#74

Posted 08 September 2004 - 06:13 AM

thanx kent fo the info, i hope in gtaconnection we will be able to get a hook and be able to direct x hack. I assume u know what gtac is i think our team leader knows ure team leader some thing like that but then again when i assume i make an ass out of u and me tounge.gif

ThE_cHeEsE

[sheep]
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#75

Posted 08 September 2004 - 06:58 AM

hmm... kent.. cheese..

Please read spookys last post carefully.. he explains EXACTLY!!! how its done.. everything is in that post.

Just to clarify.. all routines are pixel by pixel plotted.. we just create a texture then obtain its raw memory address by locking it and then write directly to it.. thus the pixel by pixel plotted routines (this gives you massive control over any routine you need to code).. very similar to old dos demo coding..






Kent767
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#76

Posted 08 September 2004 - 11:17 AM

oh wow.. sry if i didn't read closely enough...

you assembly coders love to do things the hard way lol...

we just hacked out the device pointer :-p and hooked the render routine


Kent

Spooky
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#77

Posted 08 September 2004 - 08:29 PM

QUOTE (vnum218 @ Sep 7 2004, 22:34)
How's the MP aspect of this progressing?

Quite well, we've got synchronized and smooth walking, running and driving - Right now we're working on other animations (Getting in and out of cars etc). The network code needs quite a bit of touching up though, it needs to be more dynamic in the sending of player data. Right now it just sends everything it's got about every player in every update packet.


QUOTE (vnum218 @ Sep 7 2004, 22:34)
Oh Yeah, @Cray, what are vehicles 180 and 181? I'm guessing that 180 is the plane with the banner, but I have no idea what 181 is.

I thought 181 was the banner plane, and 180 was the blimp. Spawning either of these crashes the game though.


QUOTE (ThE_cHeEsE @ Sep 8 2004, 05:02)
hey sheep or spookie when u direct x hack do u do it pixel by pixel? or do u draw a picture in direct x and insert it, sorry for any newbness im not realy experienced in direct x.

Anything you can do with Direct3D8 you can do from the hook. As mentioned in my last post, I create a texture and then edit the raw data of that. So yes our console is pixel plotted. It's really not as daunting as it sounds...

CODE
   D3DLOCKED_RECT Rect;
   m_pTexture->LockRect(0, &Rect, NULL, 0);
   DWORD* pTexData = (DWORD*)Rect.pBits;
   const int PixRow = Rect.Pitch / 4;

   memset(pTexData, 0, 512 * Rect.Pitch);

   for(UINT y = 0; y < con_height; y++)
   {
       for (UINT x = 0; x < con_width; x++)
       {
           if (x == 0 || x == (con_width-1) || y == con_height-16 || y == 0 || y == (con_height-1))
           {
               *pTexData = 0xFF078FDD;
           } else {
               *pTexData = 0x66078FDD
           }
           pTexData++;
       }
       pTexData += PixRow - con_width;
   }

   m_pTexture->UnlockRect(0);

The simple code above gets a pointer to the raw texture data and then draws that lovely transparent blue onto each pixel, except the edges and a line -16 pixels from the bottom to give the effect of a text input box.


QUOTE (ThE_cHeEsE @ Sep 8 2004, 05:02)
alot of people say u cant direct x hack in vb is this true??cause ive heard some people have direct x hacked in vb.

I've not heard of it done myself, but I'm sure it'd be possible. You'd probably be better off learning a language more suited to it though, such as C++.


QUOTE (Kent767 @ Sep 8 2004, 12:17)
you assembly coders love to do things the hard way lol...

It's not hard, although I understand why some might think that.


QUOTE (Kent767 @ Sep 8 2004, 12:17)
we just hacked out the device pointer :-p and hooked the render routine

Very well explained wink.gif Even though it's not required for this project, I love to make things generic, as with the hook.

vnum218
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#78

Posted 09 September 2004 - 12:51 AM

@Spooky and [sheep]: are you planning on having civilians and traffic and such in this MP mod? If so, that'd be great, far better than any of the other MP mods.

ThE_cHeEsE
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#79

Posted 09 September 2004 - 03:58 AM

QUOTE (vnum218 @ Sep 9 2004, 00:51)
@Spooky and [sheep]: are you planning on having civilians and traffic and such in this MP mod? If so, that'd be great, far better than any of the other MP mods.

hey vnum218 u do know that if traffic could some how be synched each player would need a fast arse internet connection, unless some how the data of each ped and car could be decreased so it could send smaller packets but that still would take up heaps of bandwidth. The only thing i could suggest would be making a few actors and just coordinate them to do things in vc like the normal peds do, but that would be boring having a few peds walking around.

DexX
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#80

Posted 09 September 2004 - 02:00 PM

i think besides bandwith, there's also the problem of how peds are created, which is around the player. If you could detach the camera and zoom around the map with the game frozen, youd see that most of the peds are within a block or so of the player, they arent generated all at once.

You could have peds locally on your own machine, but seeing peds from other people, when they are say, on another island, wouldn't work.

I suppose in theory, you could have a game thats constantly 32 players (64, whatever your max is) and whatever actor "slots" arent filled by human players, could be actors set to randomly wander from pathnode to pathnode (similar to what cheese said). They could be synched, but then again, there's still the bandwith issue.

Btw, forgive my ignorance in this department, but for peds all you really need to know is the actor skin, animation playing, health and coordinates. how much bandwith can that take? Same for traffic.

REspawn
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#81

Posted 09 September 2004 - 07:56 PM

I was messing around in vice today, as you do and i went to spawn a PCJ 600, only it just hit F11 and typed in /car 191, the PCJ Spawned fine but from that point on vice never spawned a car on any car path anywhere on the map.

Everything else in the game ran ok, ped, parked cars and such.

vnum218
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#82

Posted 09 September 2004 - 10:10 PM

@Ashdexx and The_Cheese: I was not considering the programming aspect of this when I asked the question, however I disagree that it would take up too much bandwidth because there are more ways than one to do this. I can think of two right now: 1) Have each player send ped data directly between each other, and not through the server, whenever that data is releavent. 2) Have the server control a large number of peds throughout the server and have the server only send data that is relevant to each player. I would still like to get a response to this question, but this time, hopefully, from one of the programmers.

EDIT:
Ahh, yes, RESpawn, I have had the same trouble, not with that specific thing, but whenever I use this it seems that all of the peds and vehicles stop driving around, and the vehicles I spawned hang around forever, even if i go far away for an extended period of time.

Stretchnutter
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#83

Posted 10 September 2004 - 06:22 AM Edited by Stretchnutter, 10 September 2004 - 06:40 AM.

For the Ped/Vehicle coordinates in multiplayer it would be a good idea to convert the data types. Like the rotation matrix is 9x4 (36 bytes) and thats a lot of redundant data being sent. For the rotational matrix you could convert it to a quaternion, 4x4 (16 bytes) and that right there will reduce the bandwidth quite a bit.... you could even reduce it further by breaking down the matrix into its euclidian form which will reduce the bytes down to 3x4... but this method requires some heavy math.

Anything below 12 bytes you begin to lose precision.


For general smoothness you could use SLERP (spherical linear interpolation) to fill in the gaps between the data packets.

DirectX provides some nifty Matrix>Quat and vice versa functions... but converting a matrix to its euclidian form will require your own algorithms.

Cowpat
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#84

Posted 10 September 2004 - 11:34 AM


Just a couple of thoughts...

With the players movements on foot being calculated by the client and sent to the server, you would have to monitor the player speed on the server. If not, a cheater could set player speed to, say, 1.2x speed and enjoy a small but significant advantage.

It would be awesome if players could drive vehicles (Destruction Derby type fights, running players down, etc), but would the server be able to keep pace with the huge displacements generated by the high speeds?


JernejL
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#85

Posted 10 September 2004 - 10:08 PM

QUOTE ([sheep)
,Sep 6 2004, 09:22] hmm.. it seems you MTA guys have a lot of built up anger and aggression.. but ill always take time to reply to any post directed at me in a sensible manner..

Opius.. hehe.. i would never have thought you could get in an RC vehicle let alone there being an opcode to get into one.. its a great find.. nice work..

kent.. you will notice that at the end of my post that seems to have caused offence.. there was an apology to anyone in the team that didnt act like a Jesus christ clone.. and in actual fact the only members ive seen with this severe affliction are cray and blockhead_1999(which i assume is his date of birth).. so once again.. i apologize to you.. and anyone like you in your team..and it sure is nice to see you being open about information.. but.. if you look to your left.. you will notice 3 little stars under my name.. before i posted my first post and insult.. i knew 1 person in the community.. if MTA were the fun loving.. information sharing junkies you want me to believe.. do you really think i would have those stars?? or do you think there would be a flood of regular users on this thread trying to either A) get me banned for being a big old meanie to the really helpful MTA lovies!! who have given us SO MUCH!!! INFO!!! or B) At the very least a cascade of f*ck YOU's.. the only adverse posts ive seen on here are by MTA themselves.. either these boards are frequented by people with no hands.. or everyone agrees with EXACTLY what i said.. of course the stars could have been put there by anyone that didnt like MTA.. but the lack of posts backing you people up kinda tells a story all of its own..

kryptos.. tnx smile.gif


MORE INFO!!

ill be releasing the source code for the arbitrary opcode executor later today or tomorrow.. its written in asm.. but very documented and has a small covering document aswell.. you shouldnt have too much trouble getting it to work.

the source code has the bonus of being very small.. so there isnt much to get lost in.. i have faith in your abilities my friends..

i tell you, if mta people are in the way, ignore them, if they realy can't avoid you, i will ban them.

i think info on gta-vc memory should be availible to everyone, thats the reason i
started my memory documenting topic, i think you are on the right way, so i'm
going to wish you all best with the project again.

also, please note that there is no way to 100% protect any memory editing
multiplayer server that uses readprocessmemory (do not use that, i made
syshooks to monitor other memory editing programs, i tell you windows does A LOT of memory editing in its own modules biggrin.gif biggrin.gif )

use the dll and directly adress memory.

but still.. i could slap together a memory editing protector - i have at least that much knowledge on winapi i could do a program that would autohook system (nt/xp included)
and block memory access to gta-vc for other programs.

say and i will *try*

this would block away like 99% of all cheaters.

btw, developer console has built-in anticheat system, the trick is in one single byte
to be changed.

cowpat: the player can reach large speeds on foot without cheating - imagine a
fall-off bike scenario.

[mta]kyeman
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#86

Posted 11 September 2004 - 01:39 AM

QUOTE (sheep)
If I believed for 1 second that you had any knowledge on the reversing or hooking of gta then i wouldnt be typing this reply to you.. but before i started all this with my good friend spookie we decided to just have a looksee at what was already around.. and when we had stopped laughing.. we knew that it was our duty to bring an actual playable MP mod that wasnt coded by complete f*cking idiots.

If you'd done a bit of research you may have found that I posted the information on how to hijack the scm interpreter 6 months ago:
http://www.gtaforums...howtopic=125398

I no longer work on MTA, but I can tell you that the programmability of the MTA SDK for future releases far surpasses that of simply being able to call scm instructions.

Luke
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#87

Posted 11 September 2004 - 10:39 AM Edited by Smithers2, 11 September 2004 - 11:18 AM.

QUOTE ({mta}kyeman @ Sep 11 2004, 01:39)
I no longer work on MTA, but I can tell you that the programmability of the MTA SDK for future releases far surpasses that of simply being able to call scm instructions.

This is my first post in here, but ive been following this thread for a while. Yes, im working on another MP mod, that goes by the name of GTA:Connection, and our reverse engineering skills are nowhere near yours Sheep and Spooky. But, the reason why I, and most of the team im working with, is making GTA:C is as a learning experience, im not interested in beating the s*** outta MTA's so called Blue.

The mere fact that the MTA keep on coming and posting in here, with nothing but arguments, bloats about MTA: Blue (Just to remind people its taken well over a year for them to develop MTA: Blue, and I dont expect anything to come of it for a while yet still, whereas Sheep and Spooky have done an immense amount of work in an immensely short amount of time), and other good-for-nothing comments just annoys me more often than not.

Ok, so maybe im being a little hard on MTA, but its not so much their programming that annoys me, its their attitude. I believe I was banned by eAi from the MTA channel for slapping, someone made a topic on their forums about the JPEG Code that lies within mta_dll.dll, and it was locked. IJs still denies its even there.

So, I suppose what Im really doing here is wishing Spooky and Sheep luck, and hoping that theyre making this mod for all of the right reasons. Its undoubtedly going to feature things that I could only dream of programming for GTA:C, but your aim is to make a good multiplayer mod for the community (correct me if im wrong), and ours is to do the best we can, provide a few new things that hopefully you nor MTA have considered, and most of all, for me to learn about these things.

Regards,
Smithers.

Cray
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#88

Posted 11 September 2004 - 12:13 PM

QUOTE (Spooky @ Sep 8 2004, 20:29)
QUOTE (vnum218 @ Sep 7 2004, 22:34)
Oh Yeah, @Cray, what are vehicles 180 and 181? I'm guessing that 180 is the plane with the banner, but I have no idea what 181 is.

I thought 181 was the banner plane, and 180 was the blimp. Spawning either of these crashes the game though.

Are names for vehicles could be a bit off, but as you said they crash the game if you spawn them as per the other vehicles, so they are useless to us at this stage.


As per all of the MTA discussion, I once again want to state that this thread should not be used as a forum to discuss the likes, hates, or anything about MTA. I don't want to clutter this projects work with our problems, so please respect the authors of this thread and keep it private, to another thread, or to the MTA forums. Thanks.

[sheep]
  • [sheep]

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#89

Posted 11 September 2004 - 04:19 PM Edited by [sheep], 11 September 2004 - 04:22 PM.

kyeman.. well.. it took me about 20 minutes to reverse the script parser.. so i would hope you had got that far.. but if you took your head out of your ass for 2 seconds and read the post.. it was directed at CRAY.. because all he seems to do is instead of helping people.. he just waits for others to give the correct answers then says.. YES!!! THATS EXACTLY HOW ITS DONE!! YOUR GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION!!! etc.. etc..

smithers.. nice post mate.. if you need any help with anything just drop me a line here.. or email me here.. [email protected]

Kryptos
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#90

Posted 11 September 2004 - 06:31 PM

Kyeman, I'd already mentioned much of the work you'd done for MTA to [sheep].




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