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MAJOR RELEASE HOSTING

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Demarest
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#1

Posted 07 February 2004 - 11:56 AM

This thread is for the discussion of where to host major releases such as our first beta and the like. I know, anybody can say Filplanet and things like that. But I'm curious to hear about who has or has access to hosting with large file size allotments and large bandwidth capabilities? This will be most necessary for our first beta with subsequent releases most likely tapering off in terms of server demand. Post as many as you have/know so that we can even get mirrors going.

Luke
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#2

Posted 07 February 2004 - 12:01 PM Edited by Smithers2, 07 February 2004 - 12:01 PM.

Sebsz is hosting my site for me (got talking, he offered) and i have 50mb for that. Its not that quick though at the moment (256 upload) but anyone who wants me to upload a file there, just let me know.

EDIT: Im doing a bit of PHP recently, maybe ill make an upload form for the teammembers, doesnt mean anyone has to use it, just good practice for me biggrin.gif

Calzinger
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#3

Posted 07 February 2004 - 12:47 PM

Hello. I pay for a provider that offers me 1GB webspace and 50GB bandwith per month. If you would like, I can give you your own subdomain, split you 200 megs of webspace, and you can use all of the bandwith you need. You can have email accounts if you would like as well. If you would like to take on the offer, please let me know.

Craig Kostelecky
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#4

Posted 07 February 2004 - 12:49 PM Edited by CraigKostelecky, 07 February 2004 - 01:13 PM.

I don't know him personally, but The Borg hosts several downloads. You might want to ask him if you can't find anywhere else.

Outback
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#5

Posted 07 February 2004 - 12:55 PM Edited by [4D]Outback, 07 February 2004 - 12:59 PM.

I have plenty of space on my site for whatever anyone needs hosted (related to this mod, ofcourse). I have 5 gigs of bandwidth a month that's pretty much going to waste right now.

I also wouldn't have any problems setting up an upload system of some sort for mod contributors, whether on my space or someone else's.

Blunted1
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#6

Posted 07 February 2004 - 12:58 PM

Well I personally know Calzinger, I asked him to come here and make that offer.
He is an excellent web host, and you can check out his site and forums if you need proof of that.
He is makeing an excellent offer and from what he has said I don't know what more you could ask for confused.gif

I am not sure about the borg or any other download site, but I'm not sure where you will find this kind of offer for free, especially haveing it knock at your door so you don't have to do any searching.

Again, I can vouche for Calzinger, he is a great guy... and yes I did ask him to come here as soon as I found out you needed web space.

Outback
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#7

Posted 07 February 2004 - 01:14 PM

Seeing as we have the forums now, the actual website isn't really needed, but file hosting still is. And I can say from personal experience that having webspace where bandwidth isn't a concern is a Godsend.

My 5 gigs would be fine for updates and fixes, but from the interest in this project, I'm afraid it would disappear all too quickly with the main release(s).

I'd be more than happy to work with Smithers2 and Calzinger to set up a file management system that all contributors can benefit from.

Blunted1
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#8

Posted 07 February 2004 - 01:25 PM

QUOTE ([4D]Outback @ Feb 7 2004, 13:14)
Seeing as we have the forums now, the actual website isn't really needed, but file hosting still is. And I can say from personal experience that having webspace where bandwidth isn't a concern is a Godsend.

My 5 gigs would be fine for updates and fixes, but from the interest in this project, I'm afraid it would disappear all too quickly with the main release(s).

I'd be more than happy to work with Smithers2 and Calzinger to set up a file management system that all contributors can benefit from.

This sounds the most benifical to everyone from my view.

Smithers2 does not have enough space to host the actual release, but has plenty for the updates and patches.

Outback and calzinger could each host the release itself, and could post links to each others sites, then one could be used as a mirror or alternate download site.

Nah, forget an actual website, the file hosting is more than adeqaute with this new sub-forum smile.gif

Demarest
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#9

Posted 07 February 2004 - 01:54 PM

Just keep in mind that there will be a difference between updates and major releases. For now, we've all done fine with releasing our fixes one way or another. But with the first beta on the horizon, this is a topic we need to discuss now! Sounds like we have some options and having mirrors will be nice. For this reason, we should probably start by releasing the beta link ONLY TO KEY PEOPLE and only on one host for beta testing. Once the testing is "complete", then release the link to the public as well as mirrors. That way we don't have to chase down mirrors etc with little fixes here and there as we discover them. Of course in the end, anybody wanting to DL our work will in effect be beta testing smile.gif

Blunted1
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#10

Posted 07 February 2004 - 04:00 PM Edited by Blunted1, 07 February 2004 - 04:02 PM.

If a release is going to be a short while before the public gets their hands on it, then maybe we should consider gathering all the patches and fixes and organize them.

One big thing that comes to mind is collecting all the IMG files and bundling everything before a certain date (whatever that days date may be) in one package so people dont have to worry about putting old fixes over new ones.

It would be dead simple, the only thing that would take anytime at all is an install script, but that wouldn't even take too long.

Maybe collect the up-to-date contents of the Data folder and package them together.

That way people would be downloading a total of like three or four fixes instead of twenty that hey have to decipher which order to install in.
[then again, I guess you would be half way to a release after all that anyways, maybe too much work for the benifit it will create? It would be pretty easy though, compared to the time and effort it will save people who have no idea what they are doing.]

Demarest
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#11

Posted 07 February 2004 - 04:20 PM

QUOTE (Blunted1 @ Feb 7 2004, 11:00)
If a release is going to be a short while before the public gets their hands on it, then maybe we should consider gathering all the patches and fixes and organize them.

It's already being worked on. But I wouldn't dare call the process simple or easy. With so many people contributing and certain files being overwritten many times over for different reasons, it takes to to track down and joing the info. One excellent example would be paths.ipl. It dictates ALL the paths in the game. kipo was working on SSV to avoid interfering with Knux's work in Portland. When Knux released Portland and kipo released SSV, one would then have to JOIN the two files to be able to have a release version. This example is just text, so joining is fairly simple. But the various IPL, IDE, and IMG versions will take time to track and compile. I have much respect for everybody involved in THAT effort as I understand exactly how hair-pulling it's going to be.

killer.ip
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#12

Posted 07 February 2004 - 04:22 PM

Don't worry Blunted1, I've been on the case with this one for a while... the latest versions of all the updates released so far have already been compiled and we're just waiting for the last few to be released before I can add them to complete the beta for in-house testing.

It's not been decided whether the release will consist of a manual install or an automatic installer, either way with a readme included it should be fairly foolproof. I personally would enjoy seeing the use of an installer, but as it's only necessary to delete /data, /models, /Icons & /TEXT then replace them with our updated versions it may not be wholly necessary.

As Dem said, the release is on the horizon, but you can appreciate a need for quality control and this is our overriding concern at this time. smile.gif

Blunted1
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#13

Posted 07 February 2004 - 07:24 PM Edited by Blunted1, 07 February 2004 - 07:27 PM.

QUOTE (killer.ip @ Feb 7 2004, 16:22)
Don't worry Blunted1, I've been on the case with this one for a while... the latest versions of all the updates released so far have already been compiled and we're just waiting for the last few to be released before I can add them to complete the beta for in-house testing.

It's not been decided whether the release will consist of a manual install or an automatic installer, either way with a readme included it should be fairly foolproof. I personally would enjoy seeing the use of an installer, but as it's only necessary to delete /data, /models, /Icons & /TEXT then replace them with our updated versions it may not be wholly necessary.

As Dem said, the release is on the horizon, but you can appreciate a need for quality control and this is our overriding concern at this time. smile.gif

Ok first off I am not sure where that comment came from Dem,
QUOTE
But I wouldn't dare call the process simple or easy


I am not sure if I am reading you wrong myself, but if you think I implied that compileing a release was simple then I think you took me completily wrong.
As far as your example, those have been combined. I am talking about all existing updates that are working and ready to install with ease.... if people want to mess around with combineing half peices of work that is their own agenda (I will gladly wait for finished peices of work rather than do work that will be redone by someone better and released within a week anyway), I want to make this as easy as possible for people who have never seen your site before.
[what I suggested is what I am in the works of doing for myself should I ever choose to reinstall all of this or pass it on to a friend]


As for Killer.IP, thank you very much for answering my question.
I would suggest manual install, it is always better and you would have to be more than a noob to screw it up if you set it all up right.

The IMG, obviously, would have an install script, that is automatic enough.
And the rest of the files are fairly simple to copy over the existing ones, especially if you set it all up in subfolders so all they have to do is copy one folder over their root directory and then run Mod Installer for the IMG files, rebuild your archive and you are done.

Much simpler than all those updates and ordering them correctly.

Thanks Killer.IP smile.gif

Outback
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#14

Posted 07 February 2004 - 07:33 PM Edited by [4D]Outback, 07 February 2004 - 07:34 PM.

Any major release would be intended as a fresh install, and would not need any sort of scripts for the IMG file, as the included version would already be built with the latest files.

killer.ip
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#15

Posted 07 February 2004 - 07:41 PM

Blunted1 has brought up an interesting point though. As you recall WO's release contained a pre-built gta3.img which made the download weigh in at 70Mb. As far as I know this has been the way we always intended to release GTA3:LC, this shouldn't change as it means we will have final control over making sure everything is in the correct place.

But downloading 70Mb is a tall order if you're on a slower connection, a 2nd smaller package with just the updated .dff's and .txd's for the gta3.img & required installscript (plus contents of other folders) would give an extra option for those stuck on 56k.

Just an idea at this point. smile.gif

Outback
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#16

Posted 07 February 2004 - 08:00 PM Edited by [4D]Outback, 07 February 2004 - 08:10 PM.

killer.ip: You got a point there, but I'm having mixed feelings about that.

Well, ofcourse, doing that would decrease the download size. But on the other hand, having a slower connection also decreases the preferred margin of error and increase the number of ppl (re: noobs) complaining cuz they can't get it to install right and that it took them for-freakin-ever to download and yadda yadda.

Plus, the Mod Installer would take forever and a day to inject all the needed files into the IMG.

Maybe a disclaimer is in order. smile.gif "If you don't know what you need to do with the included files, you're better off downloading the full version."

EDIT. Seem we've sidetracked two threads with this already. Maybe the installer discussion deserves a thread of its own?

killer.ip
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#17

Posted 07 February 2004 - 08:16 PM

At the moment we're looking at roughly 1100 new files, tough to tell at this point with many still due to come in. I agree, it will take an age... but the installscript is easy enough to make, bit of cut & pasting should do the trick. I'll run some benchmarks on a couple of the machines we've got down here just to see what sort of timescale we're looking at.

A new thread for the installer discussion sounds like a good idea, if you could post it and add as much information as we've already discussed that would be great. In the meantime I'll head off to get that data just to see if the Mod Installer option is viable.

I totally agree with the disclaimer by the way. biggrin.gif

The_Borg
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#18

Posted 07 February 2004 - 08:49 PM

Nice to be mentioned here and yes I like to host your beta too. Feel free to contact me at [email protected].

And keep it up, your project is really promising smile.gif .

Blunted1
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#19

Posted 07 February 2004 - 11:50 PM

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... lets all take a look at what Blunted1 said and analyze it shall we (oh wait thats me wow.gif )....
Anyways....

What I said was IN THE MEANTIME, as a replacement for a release, in order to make installing patches easier.....
We should compile as much of the patches into smaler packages, possibly only one.

Now I like Kiler.IP's idea for an ALTERNATE release install method that would require less download and be easier on 56k users and such. That is brilliant Killer.IP way to take my idea to the next level...

BUT in the meantime.... could we possibly combine all the IMG's and possibly the rest while we're at it, into a smaller, more caontained update package that is easier to install than 20 patches that must be installed in a correct sequence.

Please, I know I write a lot at a time, but please read what I have to say and do your best to understand, I try to articulate the best I can for just that reason.


(I'm just at a loss as to how someone could respond to my idea for patches BEFORE a release is made, with this...
QUOTE
Any major release would be intended as a fresh install, and would not need any sort of scripts for the IMG file, as the included version would already be built with the latest files.
.
I am sorry but that makes no sense whatssoever... atleast it caused Killer.IP to come up with that killer idea tounge.gif )

Outback
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#20

Posted 08 February 2004 - 12:04 AM Edited by [4D]Outback, 08 February 2004 - 12:05 AM.

If there was going to be an interim release, it would have been said and done with already.

And please, stop making the assumption that people that don't agree with you aren't understanding you. I understood you perfectly fine, TYVM.

Blunted1
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#21

Posted 08 February 2004 - 12:08 AM

QUOTE ([4D]Outback @ Feb 8 2004, 00:04)
If there was going to be an interim release, it would have been said and done with already.

And please, stop making the assumption that people that don't agree with you aren't understanding you. I understood you perfectly fine, TYVM.

Ok great, you understood me, then why did you make yourself look like a fool by completily contradicting what ytou read and fully understood?

I made it perfectly clear that what I wanted to do was compile patches to make installing them easier UNTIL a release... and you reply talking about how the release will be a fresh install and won't need patches...

Maybe it is just me but that is a complete contradiction and makes no sense whatsoever.

thesubseven
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#22

Posted 08 February 2004 - 12:21 AM

What about gtagaming.com? They're supposed to offer within-reason-ly unlimited bandwidth and space for major mods. The old LC2004 site was with gtagaming.

About complaining n00bs, surely anyone with gta mod installer will be fine?

Blunted1
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#23

Posted 08 February 2004 - 12:32 AM

QUOTE (thesubseven @ Feb 8 2004, 00:21)
What about gtagaming.com? They're supposed to offer within-reason-ly unlimited bandwidth and space for major mods. The old LC2004 site was with gtagaming.

About complaining n00bs, surely anyone with gta mod installer will be fine?

Yes they would be fine with the GTA Mod Installer, except that there are so many different patches that must (in some cases atleast) be installed in the correct order.
If you install one patch in the wrong order you will introduce a whole tonne of old glitches you thought you had fixed.

My idea was to make it easier, that is all.

Outback
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#24

Posted 08 February 2004 - 12:38 AM

QUOTE (Blunted1 @ Feb 8 2004, 00:08)
I made it perfectly clear that what I wanted to do was compile patches to make installing them easier UNTIL a release... and you reply talking about how the release will be a fresh install and won't need patches...

And then you made comments to killer.ip about using a manual install in the release, so I naturally assumed what you said after that was directed at him.

Simple miscommunucation. No need to get your panties in a bunch and insult people.

killer.ip
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#25

Posted 08 February 2004 - 12:46 AM

Blunted1, please read the rules of the forum, no flaming will be tolerated. We're all friends here, and we're all working towards the same goal. Please bear in mind that Outback has contributed a great deal to the project so far and deserves a measure of respect for his efforts. Thankyou. smile.gif

For the current file situation the best I can do is publish a list of the most up to date files that have made it into the upcoming test. Match these up with relevant downloads in the Official Mods thread and you're good to go. This list will become available tomorrow.

Blunted1
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#26

Posted 08 February 2004 - 04:53 AM

Well let it be known that I give Outback (and the entire team) all due respect and appreciation for his(their) contributions to this mod.
I don't feel right haveing my name on the "meet the team" thread as every person listed there has done a considerable amount of work for this mod and I have barely lifted a finger.
You guys are great, you have done an excellent job and I really appreciate the ability to use this mod.

But as someone that wouldn't have the decency to read my entire post before responding to it, I had very little respect for him.

As he said, simple miscommunication, and it is not that I have "my panties in a bunch" nor that I seek to insult people, but if you wont listen, I will repeat.
And if you insult me by not reading what I have to say, before responding directly to what I say, I wouldn't expect much respect in return... even if you worked for rahkstar.gif

Demarest
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#27

Posted 08 February 2004 - 08:18 AM

QUOTE (Blunted1 @ Feb 7 2004, 23:53)
Well let it be known that I give Outback (and the entire team) all due respect and appreciation for his(their) contributions to this mod.

Then stop turning everything into a dispute please. I have within the first day of this forum being opened witnessed 4 disputes already (some threads I haven't read yet). 3 of them involved you. And not just you, but a misunderstanding by you. It's as if you're begging to fight so much that you're willing to take offense to non-offensive statements. Or take it personally when somebody disagrees with you. This entire forum is set up for discussion and since this is a team project, discussion is a must. We can all work much faster if we don't have to continuously sit down with you to calm you down. Your style appears to anger first and give people a chance second. That will not be tolerated. You've mentioned twice now in this forum that you're not too keen on the atmosphere. Rest assured that IF you cannot conduct yourself in a productive manner, THEN you can expect to be treated in a way that will make you feel unwelcome. We have a job to do and we're all doing it because we WANT to. We also WANT any help that you can offer. But I do not view taking every disagreement as an afront towards you as being helpful in the slightest. I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from. So relax. The last time I told you that, you saw what I was talking about and agreed. But you didn't actually do it. So please do it now. Thank you.

Onto the subject at hand.

@killer.ip: Rather than creating a second thread, just renaming this thread to something like Major Release Discussion would've been good enough. Smithers2 had PMed me asking if he should create a separate thread for that. I told him to just use this one as it was technically already the subject of it. No big deal though.

I feel a full autoinstall might be a good idea for the finished product. For interim beta releases, telling somebody to make a copy of their VC, delete a few folders and put ours in place should be good enough. But I'm not doing the work on compiling all the work thus far, so the final decision belongs to killer.ip. For those wanting to use GTA3's radio stations, I'll just leave it at that you'll need a no-CD version of the EXE. Discussing how or where is against forum policy, so we'll leave it at that. If we could somehow modify the EXE to still check for the CD, but not actually play the radio stations from the CD, that would be good enough. If when you install VC, you choose to install the audio to your hard drive, I'm not even sure it will need to play it from CD once the game is loaded. Somebody else will have to check on that.

Blunted1
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#28

Posted 08 February 2004 - 11:59 AM

I am not trying to turn everything into a fight, in this threads case it obviously angered me that someone would not even read my suggestion and understand it before shooting it down by saying something that makes no sense.

The atmosphere is very much up to my par, what you read in that instance was a miscommunication between myself and Outback (again).
He was a little too vague complaining about a noob, and I thought he was responding to my help by saying that I was spamming by answering questions.

I assure you these are msiunderstandings, I am not trying to flame everyone in your forum, I have nothing personal against anyone here and although I may not pitch in the greatest deal of work here, I still hope to do more than I have and maybe help a few lost people along the way.

In short, sorry Dem, no offence intended and I will attempt to be more reasonable in the future.



About the radio stations, haveing to get them from the CD is pretty good, but as you said.... we can't really promote the use of a NoCD fix.
I think we should take any measure possible to ensure that the users of this mod have both GTA3 and GTA:VC.

I am pretty sure that the game checks the CD for authenticity aswell as reading the audio files. Maybe a way to not read the audio files, but still check the CD, or a way to check both GTA3 and GTA:VC disks when installing for the first time.

Would it be possible to discuss this with someone who actually works at Rockstar and possibly have their help in createing a means to ensure that their games have been purchased before installing/playing this mod?

Jordan
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#29

Posted 08 February 2004 - 09:09 PM

I can host on a Fileplanet server...with no waiting in line. Let me know when you want me to put it up.

Roach
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#30

Posted 12 February 2004 - 03:25 AM

go to http://www.edbis.com/ they host unlimited space/bandwidth for gaming sites, sql dbs they say if they don't have it they'll get it.




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