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MISSION CODING

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JamesSHF
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#61

Posted 27 February 2004 - 10:59 PM

QUOTE (Smithers2 @ Feb 27 2004, 22:52)
You get that noise when crossing game borders between islands i think. Maybe Dem put it in.

Yeah, he did.
It makes that noise when you cross the boundaries between the islands.

Knaxia
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#62

Posted 28 February 2004 - 03:48 AM Edited by Knux, 28 February 2004 - 03:48 AM.

but it is used for what? is there any utilities? it would make sense if it would switch the spawning location of wasted/busted but it's not the case....

GTA3Freak-2001
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#63

Posted 28 February 2004 - 06:09 AM Edited by gta3freak_2001, 28 February 2004 - 06:09 AM.

QUOTE (JamesSHF @ Feb 28 2004, 08:29)
QUOTE (Smithers2 @ Feb 27 2004, 22:52)
You get that noise when crossing game borders between islands i think. Maybe Dem put it in.

Yeah, he did.
It makes that noise when you cross the boundaries between the islands.

Ah so that's what the noise was, I thought I was hearing things.

Geqxon
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#64

Posted 28 February 2004 - 11:34 AM

At nomad v3, there were a pcj600 and a sanchez parked very close to each other at the hospital (staunton). Now you turned them back in a kuruma and a moonbeam, they now are stacked onto each other. I now parking space is limited these days, but this is absurd!

Craig Kostelecky
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#65

Posted 28 February 2004 - 11:54 AM

I mentioned that to Dem a few days ago, and it turns out that's the way it was coded in GTA3. There's also another place where 2 cars spawn in the same spot (but I don't remember where)

Luke
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#66

Posted 28 February 2004 - 11:59 AM

The crossin game bundaries is good, because it means that later on we can emulate the loading screens etc. I presume that it can be used to setup save points, hospitals, etc etc.

Geqxon
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#67

Posted 28 February 2004 - 02:40 PM

When I arive in the portland police station after getting busted, I'm falling for a second. You have to decrease the Z coordinate at that spawn point.

Direct!
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#68

Posted 28 February 2004 - 03:46 PM

QUOTE (Smithers2 @ Feb 28 2004, 12:59)
The crossin game bundaries is good, because it means that later on we can emulate the loading screens etc. I presume that it can be used to setup save points, hospitals, etc etc.

Having loadscreens is good news for me - I've not enough memory on my old GF 4 MX, which means I can't play LC for a certain time for my 'puter freezes

Demarest
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#69

Posted 28 February 2004 - 05:58 PM

Boy did I miss a lot!

Mark has a point with restricting air until SSV. If that's the plan, then we'll need to come up with good "reasons" why helis are suddenly in Portland. Staunton is easy, but Portland will need reasons.

@Mark: Great work. You're putting me in a hard place though as that should probably be an unofficial release confused.gif

@karlneil: The story will be identical as GTA3 to begin with. So will as much as we can, which is why the COL for getting to Staunton early is a must.

@Smithers2: Actually, the whole point of the project is to duplicate GTA3 so that A) those with lesser machines can play it smoother and B) to PAVE THE WAY for LC to take advantage of VC's benefits. I had mentioned the other day that even things like the helis and bikes should be excluded from the original release and be part of the "first official expansions pack" that can be released at the same time. Since killer.ip is the only one to comment on this at this point, nothing is for certain. So I think I'm going to start writing all of the code with an official flag. That way, the same SCM could be ready for either way with the switch of one master flag.

@Knux: That's not true. New busted/wasted spawn points ARE included. However, GTA3 thought in terms of island while VC thinks in terms of proximity. There was a time the other day I died in south Staunton and spawned in Portland. I may make a psuedo spawn point to override this if I can get it to work properly.

The audio is intentional and only serves for observation purposes. As I explained above, GTA3 thought in terms of islands, so much of the code looked for that. VC doesn't think that way, so I have to teach it to. I made it audio so that everybody could study where it's marked off to discover any possible errors. This mostly comes in handy for things like which island the R3 missions take place on. Pretty important when you consider that Vigilante and Firefighter both require you to do them across all islands.

As Craig said, he brought the 2 vehicle thing to my attention the other day. I thought he was talking about the Ambulance/Esperanto thing where R* parked 2 cars together. Somebody else mentioned it to me when I realized it was a different one. I'll fix that in the next code release. This is actually very good news for me because I've kind of been the expert at freeing up cars in GTA3 and now I know of another one! Thanks to Craig for bringing this to my attention smile.gif

@Geqxon: The SCM for the most part is getting ported. Any error like that would be inherent and not necessarily an oversight on my part. I'll look into it though and see if I made a mistake or if I need to fix it.

And no, the code does not control the load screens. The ZONs do. Without ultra LODs, loading screens actually hurt us back when we had it that way because entire island wouldn't appear until you were right on them confused.gif

Mark Pagliaro
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#70

Posted 28 February 2004 - 11:38 PM

I hope I am not putting you in the wrong place (It was meant to be an unofficial release anyways)

Demarest
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#71

Posted 29 February 2004 - 12:03 AM

By wrong place I meant that I don't feel good about "discouraging" good work of an important member. That's all.

CC_Miller
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#72

Posted 29 February 2004 - 07:16 AM

This thought may not be appreciated at all but here goes. I don't think there should be any restrictions about getting to the other islands early. People will play the missions regardless, infact loss of access to the other islands and the additions of loading screens between them would both be deterrents to me for intsalling a new scm. I find unlocking the other islands is a nuisance and it seems like those additions (road blocks, closed bridges, and loading screens) are all time consuming work that dtract from gameplay. The idea of a bridge being destroyed until certain missions are completed is absurd in the first place. I don't see any practicle reason for restricting access other than to duplicate an annoyance from the original. The work so far as been excellent and I'm certainly not complaining but I strongly believe that restricting access is counterproductive to the ultimate objective which should be fun.

People will still play each and every mission because were all die-hards to an extent. Being stuck on Portland with no helis would only detract from your time between missions.

Since owning GTA3 is required according to the original aggreement, anyone looking for a carbon copy can play the original. Since we are in the vice city engine, I think as many improvements on the original would all be benefical. Things like helicopters and motercycles are obvious violations from the original, so purchasing properties and hideouts, and no loading screens or barriers would be luxuries that actually add to the gameplay experience.

Anyway I hope this post doesn't bother anyone but I think its a big mistake to block the bridges and restrict helicopters, and I feel strongly that everyone will play all the missions anyway infact I bet restricting islands before mission completions will actually lead to people downloading others savegame files and skip a number of missions just to get early access. It is my contention (I may be wrong) that more people would do all the missions if there were no restrictions because there would be little incentive to download savegame files which I admittedly did on the original only to unlock islands and for no other reason.
Keep up the great work.

Demarest
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#73

Posted 29 February 2004 - 07:51 AM

First of all, thank you for taking the time to voice your opinions.
QUOTE (CC_Miller @ Feb 29 2004, 02:16)
I don't think there should be any restrictions about getting to the other islands early.
There isn't. Just like in VC, GTA3 has ways of making it so that you can bypass said restrictions. This truth alone really does kill most of your sentiments I'm afraid.

QUOTE (CC_Miller @ Feb 29 2004, 02:16)
People will play the missions regardless, infact loss of access to the other islands and the additions of loading screens between them would both be deterrents to me for intsalling a new scm.
I'd like to reitterate that the SCM has nothing to do with the loading screens. So any further reference to them in this post requires no further comment.

QUOTE (CC_Miller @ Feb 29 2004, 02:16)
I find unlocking the other islands is a nuisance and it seems like those additions (road blocks, closed bridges, and loading screens) are all time consuming work that dtract from gameplay.  The idea of a bridge being destroyed until certain missions are completed is absurd in the first place.
Whether or not any of that is true or not, it IS how it was in the original game, which is our goal.

QUOTE (CC_Miller @ Feb 29 2004, 02:16)
I don't see any practicle reason for restricting access other than to duplicate an annoyance from the original.  The work so far as been excellent and I'm certainly not complaining but I strongly believe that restricting access is counterproductive to the ultimate objective which should be fun.
I think it's quite fun to hop the bridge and get all 100 HPs before ever addressing the first mission that you are in fact thrown into from square one. Fun is relative and appreciated differently for each individual. This is even more of a reason to stick to the original game for starters and go from there.

QUOTE (CC_Miller @ Feb 29 2004, 02:16)
People will still play each and every mission because were all die-hards to an extent.  Being stuck on Portland with no helis would only detract from your time between missions.
So hop the bridge and go get some helis. I agree with Mark that heli availability in Portland and Staunton should be restricted to the unlocking of SSV. I also feel that just as with the Dodo, the vehicles still being available for abuse in SSV would be justified. And this is all if we keep helis in the first release anyways, which I am opposed to.

QUOTE (CC_Miller @ Feb 29 2004, 02:16)
Since owning GTA3 is required according to the original aggreement, anyone looking for a carbon copy can play the original.
They can. Nevertheless, the public excitement over it being in VC's engine is hard to ignore. Why? Because it's different. And having it in VC's engine does mean it will run smoother and that a new set of possibilities opens up.

QUOTE (CC_Miller @ Feb 29 2004, 02:16)
Since we are in the vice city engine, I think as many improvements on the original would all be benefical.  Things like helicopters and motercycles are obvious violations from the original, so purchasing properties and hideouts, and no loading screens or barriers would be luxuries that actually add to the gameplay experience.
People feel that way about modding GTA to begin with. Therein lies the importance of releasing a carbon copy. Our primary objective is that. Where people take our work from there is up to them. What I feel might be a cool asset might be boring to you. If we release a duplicate first, enhancements later, then people can decide for themselves what fun is. Options = good. People like options as they should. If you've seen the amount of threads asking if you can do this and that in GTA3 to which we must sadly answer "no," you would be able to appreciate the subtle advantages to having LC in VC's engine.

QUOTE (CC_Miller @ Feb 29 2004, 02:16)
Anyway I hope this post doesn't bother anyone but I think its a big mistake to block the bridges and restrict helicopters, and I feel strongly that everyone will play all the missions anyway infact I bet restricting islands before mission completions will actually lead to people downloading others savegame files  and skip a number of missions just to get early access.
Up until the end there, you were essentially repeating yourself. Again, that course of action is for others to decide for themselves. Have you seen my Timetwister mod? It featured no bridges or barriers. The fact remains that each and every person can edit for themselves whatever they feel necessary to make it fun for them. And you can already see just with bikes and helis alone (not to mention many other things) that official team members are interested in making unofficial add-ons. So you can plan on us enhancing the experience as well as others.

QUOTE (CC_Miller @ Feb 29 2004, 02:16)
It is my contention (I may be wrong) that more people would do all the missions if there were no restrictions because there would be little incentive to download savegame files which I admittedly did on the original only to unlock islands and for no other reason.
  Keep up the great work.
In closing, I only repeat myself that each person will be able to decide for themselves what to do. If we decide to keep it pure authentic (I hope) and I release code that is devoid of helis and bikes, a simple flag will change that. And of course for those not willing to do that for themselves, an already switched SCM would be released complete with default.ide and other files necessary to unlock the bikes and helis. Options my friend. I can appreciate what you're saying, so take delight in the fact that you yourself will be able to mod any aspect of it or use mods constructed by others. ALL of our work has beena available publically from day one. So I expect that there are already a decent amount of mods already made or in development. The other teams that worked with the original GTA:LC files made the mistake of taking those options away from people. We're working to give an honest platform for others to decide for themselves. Obviously this means that in addition to modding and enjoying our favorite games, we're keeping it as user-friendly as possible smile.gif

Again, thanks for taking the time to share. Any more, feel free to add them in.

CC_Miller
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#74

Posted 29 February 2004 - 08:17 AM

Thanks for the reply, I think it is a great idea to continue to allow players to jump the bridge. My post came almost as a direct response from someone suggesting that an invisible wall should be added between islands so one couldn't cross at all (not even by heli) for the sole purpose of forcing players to do the missions. I saw this as completely unnecessary work and a self defeating purpose. However if this is not done, 99% of my post disappears. I was even going to say that sneaky methods to cross should be left in. I don't know where the loading screens query belongs but the seamless transition between all three islands was one of my most favorite things about the LC mod. It would be a shame to loose that luxury, but again I'm not doing the heavy lifting so any suggestions I made are juist that.
No need to reply, keep up the great work and great site.

Demarest
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#75

Posted 29 February 2004 - 08:26 AM

Just keep in mind too that that luxury comes with the cost of your memory being flooded with data for all 3 islands. Even VC's improved engine divvied it up into 2 to help sort that out. As of right now, there are no transition screens. They will probably be included if somebody can reprocude that event accurately.

The heli barrier was my way of excusing putting helis in Portland right away. I also commented that the barrier would be removed once the next island was unlocked and that it would be model specific. That way you could still bridge hope, go to SSV, grab an SSV heli and fly around without restriction. So in essence, the same thing you're saying. That idea has been scrapped however and the current official word is that helis are limited to SSV until SSV is unlocked.

Direct!
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#76

Posted 29 February 2004 - 08:47 AM

About the helis & boats, just keep it the way GTA3 was: Nothing on Portland, Boats on Staunton & the dodo (plus heli's) in Shoreside. Good idea? Everybody's happy with that, I guess..

Silent Viper
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#77

Posted 29 February 2004 - 02:33 PM

btw the way.why don't u replace the static choppers on the roofs with Mavericks,so that after unlocking SSV every static heli is replaced with a Maverick !

Luke
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#78

Posted 29 February 2004 - 02:45 PM

Errr... Thats already been done. If by statis helis you mean the fake ones.

killer.ip
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#79

Posted 29 February 2004 - 04:18 PM

In fact I remember busting some serious ass getting the landing pad at Kenji's cleared and ready for a chopper. biggrin.gif

ModelingMan
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#80

Posted 29 February 2004 - 05:58 PM

Well i'm back after finally fixing my PC.

How is the Main.SCM coming along?

Any missions been done yet?

Direct!
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#81

Posted 29 February 2004 - 06:02 PM

No missions, altough we have the function to save!

GT-1
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#82

Posted 01 March 2004 - 04:57 PM

The missions are going to be of the time consuming things if I'm right. The co-ordinates will have to be re-done and such other things too, if im right.

Anyway, I think the goes here but why is'nt there any cars parked on the second and third levels of the 3 story car park on Staunton. All the others cars seem to be in their places.

Demarest
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#83

Posted 01 March 2004 - 05:12 PM

The missions will use the same coords. The hard parts will be properly plucking the cutscenes, converting all code to be VC compliant (more of an external thing, but necessary), code-simulating stuff that was hard-coded in GTA3, using proper ped and GXT substitutions, etc.

The carpark was actually populated by a 2nd thread that only bothered chewing up the memory for it when you were in the area. That thread hasn't been transplanted yet as it's more of a nuissance than anything (to me). Any car you see inside REALLY is a parked car and not one from the random generator thread.

Teancum
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#84

Posted 01 March 2004 - 09:33 PM

Just out of curiosity Dem, what's your plan of attack for coding?

1) Vehicles, Weapons, non-mission features (like saving)
2) Hidden Packages, Rampages
3) Normal Missions
4) Vehicle missions

Something like that?

Outback
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#85

Posted 02 March 2004 - 01:56 AM

The storyline missions will most likely be the very last thing to do, as there would be no point in progressing in the game, as an updated SCM could be released at anytime, which means you're sent back to Square 1.

For some things, there is really only line of progression. Rampages require gangs to be defined, which in turn the Gangs can't be done properly until the Zones are finalized.

But in the end, of course, it comes right down to whatever Dem feels like adding next. biggrin.gif

Demarest
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#86

Posted 02 March 2004 - 01:34 PM

Excellent question. For the same reasons Outback mentioned, I will be doing story missions last. That and the fact that they're going to be harder simply because A) having to extract the cutscenes cleanly and B) the fact that the threads for them intertwine because Luigi unlocks Joey and Marty and so on. For this reason, the missions will most likely come in about the order they appeared in the game. I realize this is a boring approach, but it's almost necessary. With any luck, it will be like when I was writing Timetwister: I started noticing similarities in the code and such and was able to blaze through it faster and faster as it was mostly transplantation and such.

So I'm going to be starting with all the environmental stuff as well as the missions that can be taken at any time like Taxi Driver and such. In fact, since Taxi Driver is almost identical in the 2 games, I'll probably be doing that real soon. I was about to include Rampages in the last release, but have to do a bit more research before I can. Then of course there's the difficult-yet-necessary steps of code-simulating the hard-coded items in GTA3 like the crusher and the IEGarages.

Direct!
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#87

Posted 02 March 2004 - 08:35 PM

that's a challenge indeed: in some of the marty chong missions you have to drive the car to the crusher!

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#88

Posted 03 March 2004 - 03:38 PM

You have to use the Run Fast button and Target button to spawn the vehicles sometimes I press it once and everytime I press the run fast button again they just keep spawning behind me. confused.gif
I can't of installed it wrong, it does this quite alot but not all the time for me.

Knaxia
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#89

Posted 03 March 2004 - 03:59 PM Edited by Knux, 03 March 2004 - 04:10 PM.

actually, since we have all the traffic/parked cars, you should remove that spawning car thing, it's annoying when you try to play with cops and aim at them then run (classic control style) and the hunter and the PCJ spawn right on the cops or in your way... confused.gif

here: I just removed the lines that was doing that (for everyone who wanted that)

CLICK HERE

(modified on Nomad 3b)

Phreak2k
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#90

Posted 12 March 2004 - 12:55 AM

I know this may have been asked already, but what about the car saving garages and the Pay And Sprays?WIll they be included on a future release?




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