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complete known IDE-definitions

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BOBECKA
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#31

Posted 09 December 2003 - 01:03 PM Edited by BOBECKA, 09 December 2003 - 01:06 PM.

If normal dff name dome, then LOD name must be LODe
Better so:
CODE

4819, my_dome, test, 1, 300, 1
4835, LODdome, test, 1, 1700, 132


The coordinates for 2dfx are looked in Zmodeler in a right bottom corner and in moomapper they are written are filled by a principle:
-x z y

That is, if for model in Zmodeler of coordinate x=3 y=2 =5, in 2dfx it is necessary to write x =-3 y=5 z=2

DexX
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#32

Posted 09 December 2003 - 01:39 PM

ding ding ding! we have a winner! thanks for the help bob, it works. have xmas.gif eating a cookie.gif

that zmod info is useful too...

BenMillard
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#33

Posted 10 December 2003 - 08:30 PM

Oooh, I guess is the sort of stuff I'll be using when I add that barrel track to your map Ash? smile.gif

REspawn
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#34

Posted 17 January 2004 - 01:08 PM

Parameter:
0 - normal Object
1 - normal object shown wet while raining
4 - normal object with alpha-textures
36 - unknown
132 - unknown
128 - unknown
172 - unknown
196 - unknown
256 - unknown

CODE
256 - Draws LOD across loading zones


Example: If your in Vice point and a LOD object in Little haiti has a parameter of 256 then you will be able to see if (if draw distance is high enough)

Only time you would really need this is when making mods that are split with the loading zones.
-Dave

steve-m
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#35

Posted 17 January 2004 - 04:58 PM Edited by ST.MU, 17 January 2004 - 04:58 PM.

Flag values are always a power of 2! The list must look like this:
CODE
0 - normal object (no flags)
1 - wet while raining
2 - unknown
4 - alpha-textures
8 - unknown
16 - unknown
32 - unknown
64 - unknown
128 - unknown
256 - draws LOD across loading zones

To enable more than one feature, you simply add the flags. E.g. the values you posted:
36 = 4 + 32
132 = 4 + 128
172 = 4 + 8 + 32 + 128
196 = 4 + 64 + 128
When you want an object that looks wet and has alphas, you use the parameter 5.

QUOTE (REspawn)
Only time you would really need this is when making mods that are split with the loading zones.
Or when making huge models that have to be seen from everywhere, like a mountain.

REspawn
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#36

Posted 21 January 2004 - 09:34 AM

I think the other flags, the unknown ones are used in the game during the transition of weather effects.

BenMillard
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#37

Posted 21 January 2004 - 04:22 PM Edited by Cerbera, 23 June 2004 - 01:45 PM.

(Cullzone data removed and re-posted in the pinned Cullzones thread.)

Opius
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#38

Posted 21 January 2004 - 05:17 PM

QUOTE (REspawn @ Jan 18 2004, 00:08)
CODE
256 - Draws LOD across loading zones

AHA! I guess that's how the extremely LOD objects are handled. This should come in handy for both Myriad and GTA:LC.

@Cerb, I thought Odie had the window viewing areas in his first release for Myriad?

BenMillard
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#39

Posted 25 January 2004 - 02:09 PM Edited by Cerbera, 30 July 2004 - 08:22 AM.

QUOTE (Opius @ Jan 21 2004, 17:17)
QUOTE (REspawn @ Jan 18 2004, 00:08)
CODE
256 - Draws LOD across loading zones
AHA! I guess that's how the extremely LOD objects are handled. This should come in handy for both Myriad and GTA:LC.

@Cerb, I thought Odie had the window viewing areas in his first release for Myriad?
I can't say I ever noticed people using them...having a glance through the IDE I can't say I see any of the special 2D effect areas there either? dontgetit.gif

I guess what it really needs is for someone to properly investigate in depth two or more existing benched areas in Vice. Everything about them from nearby path node locations to which object the ID number of the IDE entry for the seated area has to point to, someone needs to fully analyse all this. Much like I've done with certain aspects of the handling.CFG but as I'm banned from the PC I can't do this. :dongetit:
If it isn't urgent (and it isn't, really) then all the modders with talent could just wait till I get back and can do the analysis and experimentation. Hopefully I'll get it compeletly right if it falls to be, I only got my paths for Myriad to work by Vice being kind to me. blush.gif


(EDIT) I tried moving a bench used in the seating animation via the IPL, this made the seating animation end. I tried tacing an animation area back to the bench it was being applied to, but couldn't positivly identify one. I don't think I'll have any sucess at a later date either, really not in the right mindset for this sort of thing recently.

Here's the bench which I think I ended up locating through all that, but I changed it's "type" but it remained a seated area, which is why I don't think I located it correctly. This was all done using a calculator and moomapper, I expect other people are versed in methods which would make this easier.
user posted image
1024 x 768

CODE
Case Study - Ocean Drive Bench Animation Areas
Ben "Cerbera" Millard, 27/01/2004.


OCEAN DRIVE
-----------

Benches - IDE Definition:
414, parkbench1, benches, 2, 50, 46

Relative Building - IDE Definition:
3155, oceanrda04_nt, Generic, 1, 200, 1, 20, 5

Benches - IPL:
414, parkbench1, 0, 267.357, -1103.52, 10.4076, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, -0.996195, 0.0871557
414, parkbench1, 0, 269.161, -1092.67, 10.4076, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, -0.996195, 0.0871557
414, parkbench1, 0, 255.26, -1158.79, 10.4174, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, -0.996195, 0.0871557

Relative Building - IPL:
3155, oceanrda04_nt, 13, 257.037, -1132.77, 9.712, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1

Benches - IDE Zones:
3155, -5.05856, -46.0665, 1.40186, 246, 199, 19, 200, 3, 1, 0.88489, -0.156349, -0.438776, 0.88489, -0.156349, -0.438776
3155, -4.26575, -39.1285, 1.68641, 246, 199, 19, 200, 3, 1, 0.924648, -0.167327, -0.342094, 0.924648, -0.167327, -0.342094
3155, -2.41541, -32.5359, 1.57304, 246, 199, 19, 200, 3, 1, 0.796375, -0.147484, -0.586545, 0.796375, -0.147484, -0.586545

Benches - Relative Y-axis values:
-1178 (-1086)
-1171 (-1093)
-1165 (-1100 - 1103?)
(Numbers in brackets are from adding relative co-ords rather than subtracting.)

ghost of delete key
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#40

Posted 31 January 2004 - 12:46 PM

Earlier I accidentally discovered how to break things without defining them in object.dat...

(see this thread for details.)

This got me thinking about what the flags do in IDE definitions, so I've been up all night studying the IDE's and testing the flags- here is what I have found so far:
CODE

IDE flags

0     normal (no flags)
1     gets wet
2     *for tobj objects only* - a nigttime flag- used with alpha
4     has alpha
8     (not found)
16    *for tobj objects only* - a daytime flag- used with alpha
32    #for interior objects only# - (possibly disables loading till interior is entered)
64    ++hidden object - appears at certain time++ (when called by mission? or when needed?)
128   IS MOVEABLE (when defined in object.dat)
256   draw LOD across zones
512   (not found)
1024  IS BREAKABLE (shatters without definition in object.dat)


ITEMS IN CAPS ARE TESTED AND PROVEN! (SORRY tounge2.gif )

* I have yet to observe what this does exactly... on the "to do" list

# I have not observed any visible effect

++ the flag 64 applies only to the following objects, in Ocean Drive North:

spad_watr1
spad_watr2
spad_veg1
(rooftop pool & plants in Martha's Mugshot)

odndirt1
odndirt2
odndirt3
odndirt4
(dirt clumps along the alley walls, can't remember the mission...)

od_tracks01
od_tracks03
od_tracks05
od_tracks06
(vehicle tracks running the length of the beach, erm, mission?)

...and in the Mansion:
man_pool_shado1
(mansion interior scene, opens with Diaz' missions)

After poring over all the IDE's, I have not found any occurrences of flag 8 or flag 512...
although It's possible I may have overlooked the odd instance- my eyes are fairly crossed ATM. Most likely they are not used.
Also, flag 128 sets an object moveable, like signposts and fire hydrants, but only when listed in object.dat.
The odd thing is that far more objects in VC have this flag than are defined in the .dat, a large proportion of which are LOD's and large immovable objects. Why an LOD should have mass, drag, and other properties is beyond me, but this makes me think R* changed the way they defined objects in mid-project, and left the flags for unaffected objects. Another property of this flag brings me around to the flag 4 (has alpha):
If the object's texture has an alpha channel, it will not be displayed regardless of how the object's material is defined in the modeler's material manager, unless flag 4 is set... HOWEVER, I found that setting ONLY flag 128 (is movable) will allow the alpha to be blended, but causes a culling effect which varies by distance.
Specifically, objects behind the glass will be visible if the camera is at a distance from the glass, but as you get closer, objects disappear. if you stand against the window, everything behind it is culled, including the earth, and the only thing visible is the skybox and "brown hell". Using the flag 4 reliably cures this effect.
The bottom line is that you can put breakable windows of every description and decoration (or any other object for that matter) all over VC, and just set a flag. If you want to push them around, drop a line in object.dat, and set a flag!
This also makes me think it could be possible to implement a hinge on objects... dare I dream?
There are still quite a few things to investigate in this vein, notably the tobj flags and flags 8 and 512- maybe hidden or unsed functions? But first, sleep

JernejL
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#41

Posted 31 January 2004 - 09:48 PM

QUOTE (ghost of delete key @ Jan 31 2004, 13:46)
Earlier I accidentally discovered how to break things without defining them in object.dat...

(see this thread for details.)

This got me thinking about what the flags do in IDE definitions, so I've been up all night studying the IDE's and testing the flags- here is what I have found so far:
CODE

IDE flags

0     normal (no flags)
1     gets wet
2     *for tobj objects only* - a nigttime flag- used with alpha
4     has alpha
8     (not found)
16    *for tobj objects only* - a daytime flag- used with alpha
32    #for interior objects only# - (possibly disables loading till interior is entered)
64    ++hidden object - appears at certain time++ (when called by mission? or when needed?)
128   IS MOVEABLE (when defined in object.dat)
256   draw LOD across zones
512   (not found)
1024  IS BREAKABLE (shatters without definition in object.dat)


ITEMS IN CAPS ARE TESTED AND PROVEN! (SORRY tounge2.gif )

* I have yet to observe what this does exactly... on the "to do" list

# I have not observed any visible effect

++ the flag 64 applies only to the following objects, in Ocean Drive North:

spad_watr1
spad_watr2
spad_veg1
(rooftop pool & plants in Martha's Mugshot)

odndirt1
odndirt2
odndirt3
odndirt4
(dirt clumps along the alley walls, can't remember the mission...)

od_tracks01
od_tracks03
od_tracks05
od_tracks06
(vehicle tracks running the length of the beach, erm, mission?)

...and in the Mansion:
man_pool_shado1
(mansion interior scene, opens with Diaz' missions)

After poring over all the IDE's, I have not found any occurrences of flag 8 or flag 512...
although It's possible I may have overlooked the odd instance- my eyes are fairly crossed ATM. Most likely they are not used.
Also, flag 128 sets an object moveable, like signposts and fire hydrants, but only when listed in object.dat.
The odd thing is that far more objects in VC have this flag than are defined in the .dat, a large proportion of which are LOD's and large immovable objects. Why an LOD should have mass, drag, and other properties is beyond me, but this makes me think R* changed the way they defined objects in mid-project, and left the flags for unaffected objects. Another property of this flag brings me around to the flag 4 (has alpha):
If the object's texture has an alpha channel, it will not be displayed regardless of how the object's material is defined in the modeler's material manager, unless flag 4 is set... HOWEVER, I found that setting ONLY flag 128 (is movable) will allow the alpha to be blended, but causes a culling effect which varies by distance.
Specifically, objects behind the glass will be visible if the camera is at a distance from the glass, but as you get closer, objects disappear. if you stand against the window, everything behind it is culled, including the earth, and the only thing visible is the skybox and "brown hell". Using the flag 4 reliably cures this effect.
The bottom line is that you can put breakable windows of every description and decoration (or any other object for that matter) all over VC, and just set a flag. If you want to push them around, drop a line in object.dat, and set a flag!
This also makes me think it could be possible to implement a hinge on objects... dare I dream?
There are still quite a few things to investigate in this vein, notably the tobj flags and flags 8 and 512- maybe hidden or unsed functions? But first, sleep

you know you can easier edit flags with ms-calc
just paste the number into it and go to binary mode..

1 is on and 0 is off.

ODIE
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#42

Posted 31 January 2004 - 10:01 PM

All listed objects with param 64 has alphas and they are all placed on other non alpha objects. I think, it a param to avoid the alpha-bug (borders looks transparent throught the object behind). I used this param on some alpha objects in Myriad, like the bottles in the bar.


ghost of delete key
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#43

Posted 31 January 2004 - 10:25 PM Edited by ghost of delete key, 02 February 2004 - 04:42 AM.

Good point, Odie, I havent yet been through the city to eyeball all of those flag 64 objects, but it falls right in line with what I further discovered today. At the moment, I'm cataloging the permutations of the flags, and they all have to do with rendering vs. physics. I also found out what 8 and 512 are for, and some modelers are going to be happy when I post the results shortly.
Just got to get my notes in order. (and there is a revision to the current table).
To be posted within a few hours.

edit...
Delfi, I don't use a calculator, I just look at the numbers and see the flags. Now if they were written in binary... tounge2.gif



<<EDIT>>

OK, major re-write here- having had a chance to investigate more thoroughly and in a more orderly fashion, I have a few things here to straighten out.
First, a...
<<RETRACTION!>>
1) Flag 1024 does NOT set an object breakable without being defined in object.dat- don't ask how I came to that conclusion, but when I originally added my test object, I did not have it in object.dat... but it did break. After testing other objects and re-testing the first, I could not reproduce that effect. I may have been loopy from lack of sleep tounge2.gif
2) Flag 128 I misinterpreted, also flag 64...

So this is what I have so far:
CODE

0    default (objects behind objects with alpha transparency are culled)
1    renders wet effect on surface
2    tobj Night flag (used with flag 4)
4    disables culling behind alpha transparency
8    **another alpha/culling flag- needs more data**
16   tobj Day flag (used with flag 4)
32   is interior object (disables texture to black when placed in exterior!)
64   disables shadow culling
128  excludes surface fom culling
256  disables drawdistance (LOD across zones)
512  2-sided breakable window! - very strange
1024 1-sided breakable window - not so strange


flags 512 & 1024 require a bit more explanation:

For either of these flags to work, the object must be defined in object.dat, BUT- both of these flags disable the physical attributes defined there for the object. Specifically, flag 1024 disables any physics, and makes the object smashable.
Flag 512 is the crazy one- this flag not only disables the physics, but also the texture, and back-culling so that you get dark-tinted, 2-sided transparent faceson the object. In other words, this makes a breakable tinted window. The other interesting aspect of this is that it doesn't simply smash like 1024, but it cracks, then smashes. A slight bump 'cracks' the window, and it goes from the dark tint to a lighter one; a second bump then shatters the window completely.

Flag 128 seems to have the effect of excluding the object's faces from being culled when behind another object, but I'm not sure that this is what the flag is for...

Flag 64 allows the shadow fx (player, ped, car shadows etc.) to be rendered through an alpha transparency. Without this flag, the shadow is culled.

I'm not exactly sure how flag 32 works, all I know is it's used on all interior objects; if you use it on an exterior object, the object is shown jet black. I believe what happens is that this flag disables material rendering for hidden interior objects in order to save gfx resources. If an object which needs to be rendered can't find its texture, we get the familiar white default material. But if it's not supposed to be rendered, why bother with a material? No material = "black hole".

Flags 4 & 8 both disable culling of polys seen through an alpha transparency, although I'm not sure what the difference is between them. Possibly they affect different types of culling, like CW (or CCW) and back culling. Needs more study.

This is a much more accurate description of the flags, but it's still not yet complete. Sleep now, more later turn.gif

DAALYMAN
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#44

Posted 27 March 2004 - 01:55 AM

where can you change the neon light color for the building that have neon, i looked at the ide file before and couldnt make heads or tails of it. thanx for any help on this.

Opius
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#45

Posted 27 March 2004 - 03:38 AM

The neons lighting effects are created through vertex prelighting. Since we don't know how Rockstar setup their lighting rigs, it would be very hard to change the neons colours. You can easily change the textures themselves, through the materials editor, but it would strange for a red neon to cast blue light, for example.

BenMillard
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#46

Posted 08 April 2004 - 06:40 PM Edited by Cerbera, 09 February 2005 - 06:32 PM.

QUOTE (Opius @ Mar 27 2004, 03:38)
The neons lighting effects are created through vertex prelighting. Since we don't know how Rockstar setup their lighting rigs, it would be very hard to change the neons colours. You can easily change the textures themselves, through the materials editor, but it would strange for a red neon to cast blue light, for example.

How does this tie in with the timed objects (tobj) which only come on at night? How can they cast light onto other objects if they are just pre-lit? One way I've seen them done is like the image below from GTA3 shows:
(Old image removed.)

- Just uses a string of "coronastar" effects. But in Vice, the below image shows what seems like a different method:
(Old image removed.)

In the second version, the neon strips only come on in the dark and the lighting on the ground only comes on in the dark, IIRC. Is the ground always pre-lit and the ambient light of daytime keeps this hidden, or does it have a seperate timed object?

steve-m
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#47

Posted 08 May 2004 - 11:43 PM

QUOTE (Cerbera @ Apr 8 2004, 20:40)
In the second version, the neon strips only come on in the dark and the lighting on the ground only comes on in the dark, IIRC. Is the ground always pre-lit and the ambient light of daytime keeps this hidden, or does it have a seperate timed object?

The neon "glow" is done via a transparent texture, and the lighting on the ground comes from an invisible light (without corona), maybe with fog enabled.

mickarrow
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#48

Posted 11 June 2004 - 04:32 PM

I've encountered a problem when trying to set flags using moomapper. MM just won't accept when I try to set them to 256... The program simply keeps setting the flags (immediately) back to zero. Is this an MM bug or am I just doing it wrong (again.....<sigh>)? smile.gif

steve-m
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#49

Posted 12 June 2004 - 10:57 AM

QUOTE (mickarrow @ Jun 11 2004, 18:32)
I've encountered a problem when trying to set flags using moomapper. MM just won't accept when I try to set them to 256... The program simply keeps setting the flags (immediately) back to zero. Is this an MM bug or am I just doing it wrong (again.....<sigh>)? smile.gif

MooMapper might treat this flag as byte, which only allows values from 0-255, so 256 automatically becomes 0. If you need higher values, use a text editor.

mickarrow
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#50

Posted 12 June 2004 - 04:51 PM

Oh, didn't know that...I'll use a text editor instead.
tanx man smile.gif

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#51

Posted 17 June 2004 - 02:38 PM

Now, I'm an idiot- so don't blame me if this is stupid:

How do I stop the police lights from flashing red? I just want them to flash blue, (if possible, in strobe effect, but don't worry if you can't explain/do that).

steve-m
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#52

Posted 17 June 2004 - 05:56 PM

Not stupid. It's simply not possible, since this is hard-coded (as so much) and would need exe-hacking. But if the memory positions are ever discovered, you can read about it in this thread.

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#53

Posted 18 June 2004 - 05:09 PM

I understand Arabic better than that thread! biggrin.gif

REspawn
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#54

Posted 05 August 2004 - 04:30 PM

I didnt find this in the previous pages, and i need it yesterday so i had a look around vice....
  • 132 - LOD object with alpha

steve-m
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#55

Posted 05 August 2004 - 06:15 PM

QUOTE (REspawn @ Aug 5 2004, 18:30)
132 - LOD object with alpha

This is simply 128 (excludes surface fom culling) + 4 (alpha).

jcab42
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#56

Posted 10 August 2004 - 07:44 PM

QUOTE (ghost of delete key @ Jan 31 2004, 16:25)
CODE

0    default (objects behind objects with alpha transparency are culled)
1    renders wet effect on surface
2    tobj Night flag (used with flag 4)
4    disables culling behind alpha transparency
8    **another alpha/culling flag- needs more data**
16   tobj Day flag (used with flag 4)
32   is interior object (disables texture to black when placed in exterior!)
64   disables shadow culling
128  excludes surface fom culling
256  disables drawdistance (LOD across zones)
512  2-sided breakable window! - very strange
1024 1-sided breakable window - not so strange

rulebreaker: Whenever breakable glass is present, the flag must be a 0, even if the model has transparencies. Check out Easy Credit Autos in GTA3 (in LC the revision model was given a 4 so the place had some nasty dissapearing in the latest build).

spaceeinstein
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#57

Posted 18 August 2004 - 12:57 AM

Should someone update the first post?

ghost of delete key
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#58

Posted 21 August 2004 - 01:27 PM

QUOTE (jcab42 @ Aug 10 2004, 15:44)
rulebreaker: Whenever breakable glass is present, the flag must be a 0, even if the model has transparencies.  Check out Easy Credit Autos in GTA3 (in LC the revision model was given a 4 so the place had some nasty dissapearing in the latest build).

erm, yeah...

true enough, for III, but this is about VC tounge2.gif

The LC window bug is what prompted my dive into the rendering flags, and I believe that as a result, the bug was straightened out something like 9 months ago. I'm not aware of any persistent problems with the same, currently.

In VC, the flags used:

od_copwindows - 516
4 (disable culling behind alpha object) + 512 (two-sided breaking window)

wglasssmash - 1028
4 (disable culling behind alpha object) + 1024 (one-sided breaking window)

As you can see, only the window which can be accessed from inside will have the 512 flag.


Obviously, 0 is the default "flagless" setting, borne only by those VC dynamic objects which are opaque, and don't need to display a shadow cast on its surface.

jcab42
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#59

Posted 21 August 2004 - 06:53 PM

QUOTE (ghost of delete key @ Aug 21 2004, 07:27)
QUOTE (jcab42 @ Aug 10 2004, 15:44)
rulebreaker: Whenever breakable glass is present, the flag must be a 0, even if the model has transparencies.  Check out Easy Credit Autos in GTA3 (in LC the revision model was given a 4 so the place had some nasty dissapearing in the latest build).

erm, yeah...

true enough, for III, but this is about VC tounge2.gif

The LC window bug is what prompted my dive into the rendering flags, and I believe that as a result, the bug was straightened out something like 9 months ago. I'm not aware of any persistent problems with the same, currently.

In VC, the flags used:

od_copwindows - 516
4 (disable culling behind alpha object) + 512 (two-sided breaking window)

wglasssmash - 1028
4 (disable culling behind alpha object) + 1024 (one-sided breaking window)

As you can see, only the window which can be accessed from inside will have the 512 flag.


Obviously, 0 is the default "flagless" setting, borne only by those VC dynamic objects which are opaque, and don't need to display a shadow cast on its surface.

sarcasm.gif where do I begin? First, I WAS talking about VC, duh. Why would I be talking about "LC" and "revision models" if I was talking about GTA3. I said "Check out Easy Credit Autos in GTA3" because that's where the model originally came from, but for stupid people and those that don't know, LC IS A MOD FOR VC.

On to the main buisness: I just spent the last half hour testing your theory even though I had already tested it because whenever someone that I respect tells me that I'm wronge, I retest my work, but now I see that you don't deserve respect.

Once again (for the stupid people), when there is breakable glass present, the model needs to be a 0. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GLASS, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE MODELS BEHIND THE GLASS, THAT'S WHY I SAID "WHEN GLASS IS PRESENT" You should have realized that's what I was talking about since I said "the revision model was given a 4". The revision model is not glass which you would have known if you had tested my theory.

But just to make sure, I tested the glass with a 516 and gave the revision a 4 even though I had already tested it and once again the glass causes just as much culling as if was a 0.

Here's a pic of what happens when the REVISION MODEL IS NOT 0 so there's no chance someone will get confused again:

http://www.kosteleck...craig/jcab2.jpg

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  • ghost of delete key

    aggronormical

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  • Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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#60

Posted 28 August 2004 - 05:37 AM

@ jcab42:
Yeah, I purposely waited a few days to chill out before I replied to this. I thought maybe I could be all wrong, and was just spouting like an asshat... so I carefully re-tested my earlier findings.

As it turns out, I wasn't, and I didn't.

So, to recycle a handy quote, "where do I begin?"

QUOTE
First, I WAS talking about VC, duh. Why would I be talking about "LC" and "revision models" if I was talking about GTA3.


You know, you kinda had me scratching my head about that, myself. To wit:

QUOTE
rulebreaker: Whenever breakable glass is present, the flag must be a 0, even if the model has transparencies.  Check out Easy Credit Autos in GTA3 (in LC the revision model was given a 4 so the place had some nasty dissapearing in the latest build).


The way that reads,
"Whenever breakable glass is present, the flag must be a 0, even if the model has transparencies. " = Thesis

"Check out Easy Credit Autos in GTA3" = Antithesis

"(in LC the revision model was given a 4 so the place had some nasty dissapearing in the latest build)" = Synthesis

No problem, as you explain your stance:

QUOTE
I said "Check out Easy Credit Autos in GTA3" because that's where the model originally came from, but for stupid people and those that don't know, LC IS A MOD FOR VC.


Sorry, you'll have to bear with us confounded Stupid People. We tend to take things literally, and simply refuse to use telepathy to understand your meaning.

... and I was so completely unaware of the existence of the LC mod- thanks for bringing that to my attention. Cookies. cookie.gif cookie.gif

Now, on to the facts:

You state that: "Whenever breakable glass is present, the flag must be a 0, even if the model has transparencies."

You further make it uncomfortably obvious that you are referring to the Low-Z object when referring to the flag which needs to be set to 0, and not the Hi-Z object with breakable window attributes.

I posit that this is incorrect.

For the test I created a unique object with its own .dff & .txd, defined it in generic.ide and object.dat, giving it the same properties as wglasssmash.

I placed it in the driveway at Sunshine autos, where I could demonstrate a variety of flag combinations conveniently.

The first pic shows the initial scene with all flags for all objects in their original values. The test window has its rendering flags set the same as wglasssmash (1028), which is the windows seen in the showroom. As you can see, only the land/building (one model) is set to 0. The other objects have other settings, some listed on the pictures. It can be quite easily seen that everything is rendered correctly, despite the fact that these "revision models" have flags other than 0. Note that with these basic settings, the ped models' shadows are culled.

.user posted image. (click thumbnail)

user posted image

changing the ground/building model from 0 to 64 (disables shadow culling) has no effect on the shadow...

user posted image

... that's because this flag affects the window, not the object behind it, removing the window from the Z-order stack, so that the specified effect is not culled from behind it.

As seen here, adding 64 to the test window's flags disables the culling of the shadow on the ground, or wherever else it appears:
user posted image

Note also that the ground is now set to 64, not 0. In fact, setting its flag to anything else will yield the mundane results seen in the picture above.

Incidentally, the game doesn't care if the model is a building, window, tree, piece of ground or whatever. It treats them all the same as far as the rendering flags go.

From this alone, nearly anyone (even us Stupid People™) can figure out that the 0 flag simply represents the default culling mode, and is not necessary unless that is specifically the effect you want for that particular model. The remaining flags modify the default culling mode by specific parameters, each covering a finite aspect of the culling sequence. It is simply a matter of observing and recording the various permutations to arrive at an adequate description of the flags, which is what this is all about.
I've taken the liberty to document my plain sense observations and share them with the community, and provide some substantial "photographic" evidence, lest the cretinous masses be misinformed with disinformation.
We user posted image have to stick together, you know.

Now, shall we continue to argue against plain evidential facts, or are we ready to chill out and move on?

QUOTE
I just spent the last half hour testing your theory even though I had already tested it because whenever someone that I respect tells me that I'm wronge, I retest my work, but now I see that you don't deserve respect.


Meh, your loss, not mine... and only one person's opinion- apparently based on a cursory half-hour perusal of the situation. If you had researched this in any depth, you would have been busy for the better part of a day, and could have offered something more substantial than "Check out Easy Credit Autos" to back up your assertion before jumping in stinger-first with a hasty flame. At least you didn't spell work as "wrok"... that would just be so wronge colgate.gif

Anyone who's familiar with my posting habits knows that I'll be the first one to admit I'm wrong, and to accept correction when pointed out to me. It's about content, not ego or r'spek.
Don't worry, I don't hold it against you; I realize you're not a Wakelam... just a little touchy is all. tounge.gif

Hell, for all I know, everything here could all be wrong. This just appears to be the most accurate description. If anyone can come up with more convincing evidence to the contrary, then the definitions will stand corrected. That doesn't mean I'll have egg on my face, it just means that we all will have the best info available.
Anybody can be wrong about anything. Big deal.

*** *** ***
Have some screenies showing the effects of various flags on the models.
Unless otherwise noted on the picture, all objects' flags are set as they normally are ingame.
I only posted some of the most important ones, as most look alike, and some flags are "specials", only for interiors or tobj's.
(click thumbnails)

.user posted image.

.user posted image.

.user posted image.

.user posted image.


oh, and one more tidbit for the "stupid people and those that don't know"...
NEVER attempt to embroil me in a verbal beat-down. You will not "win". If you can walk away, you will do so disappointed.

Ta.




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